Please God no

[nu_matik 167]

21 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

In those 2 promotion winning seasons he had Tettey and Skipp alongside him

Without someone like that with him , we've seen both last season and this how defensively 'unsound' he is in midfield

I think only one person agrees with you. And everyone else sees the clutching of straws.

It's pretty desperate to put blame on Kenny being part of 2 excellent pairings that got promoted.

I think its probably a better bet to Trust the judgement of every manager he's played under than one devout hater so I'll save my breath. Merry Xmas! Genuinely! Enough of this nonsense 😀

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,800]

2 minutes ago, nu_matik said:

I think only one person agrees with you. And everyone else sees the clutching of straws.

It's pretty desperate to put blame on Kenny being part of 2 excellent pairings that got promoted.

I think its probably a better bet to Trust the judgement of every manager he's played under than one devout hater so I'll save my breath. Merry Xmas! Genuinely! Enough of this nonsense 😀

...but the proof is there, both last season and this  ,where we've been a million miles off the top 2 

 

[nu_matik 167]

3 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

...but the proof is there, both last season and this  ,where we've been a million miles off the top 2 

 

Picked consistently by a good national team manager for his country too 

Must be absolutely awful.

I don't know what he did to you but its must be bad so I believe you.

MERRY XMAS X

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,800]

8 minutes ago, nu_matik said:

Picked consistently by a good national team manager for his country too 

Must be absolutely awful.

I don't know what he did to you but its must be bad so I believe you.

MERRY XMAS X

Squad player for Scotland....not a 1st XI 

...and Scotland are sort of restricted to picking Scottish players!.  If your Scottish and play in the top 2 divisions of English football, you have a fair chance of getting in that squad

Merry xmas to you too

Edited December 24, 2023 by GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary

[Keith Scott 245]

Ben Gibson is possibly the worst centre back in the championship.

All the best.

Merry Xmas.

Big Keith Scott.

[nu_matik 167]

10 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Squad player for Scotland....not a 1st XI 

...and Scotland are sort of restricted to picking Scottish players!.  If your Scottish and play in the top 2 divisions of English football, you have a fair chance of getting in that squad

Merry xmas to you too

I'll let you count the midfielders x

https://uk.soccerway.com/players/players_abroad/scotland/

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,800]

2 minutes ago, nu_matik said:

I'll let you count the midfielders x

https://uk.soccerway.com/players/players_abroad/scotland/

From the championship?....about 4 , which backs up my point

What was your point?

[nu_matik 167]

That Kenny isn't as bad as you want him to be. You said top 2 divisions. That includes the prem.

He scores for them. They love him. We love him

Get on board!

[Number9 272]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

Why does every manager, every ex-player and every current player want him starting then? That's the biggest question. That some of you think you know better than Farke, Smith, Wagner, their coaching staff, Lappin, Eddie, Holt, Gibson, Gunn, Sargent, I could go on...

Are you not able to watch and form your own opinion?

When questioned about Kenny, managers have often responded by extolling his attitude or what he's like in the dressing room. 

I just look at him playing and know that if I was in that team I'd be pretty fed up with his wandering round out of position, giving the ball away in dangerous areas and general mediocrity. 

I don't think he, you or the managers are bad people, I just watch him playing as the years go by and form an opinion. 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,800]

5 minutes ago, nu_matik said:

That Kenny isn't as bad as you want him to be. You said top 2 divisions. That includes the prem.

He scores for them. They love him. We love him

Get on board!

...your list shows that pretty much every central midfielder in the prem and championship is in the scottish squad...which is what i said

...so again, what is your point?

Edited December 24, 2023 by GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary

[hogesar 9,744]

41 minutes ago, Number9 said:

Are you not able to watch and form your own opinion?

When questioned about Kenny, managers have often responded by extolling his attitude or what he's like in the dressing room. 

I just look at him playing and know that if I was in that team I'd be pretty fed up with his wandering round out of position, giving the ball away in dangerous areas and general mediocrity. 

I don't think he, you or the managers are bad people, I just watch him playing as the years go by and form an opinion. 

Here's the thing you miss every time you quote me on Kenny.

I watch him. I've watched him. I'm at every home game and some away.

It just so happens that my opinion from watching him aligns with a long list of professional, experienced and proven managers, coaches, current players and ex players, as well as the stats you keep mentioning.

Your opinion aligns with a couple of other PinkUn posters, who twist every subject about Kenny into some ego-protecting method. So Kenny outperforms all our CBs and all the Kenny haters can say is its because he's not in midfield. It's really funny if you take a step back and read it through.

That is the difference. 

Merry Christmas though 🙃🙃

P.S having spoken to very recent ex players in person, I can guarantee they aren't fed up of Kenny. For them he's one of the first on the teamsheet.

Edited December 24, 2023 by hogesar

[astro 366]

3 hours ago, BigFish said:

You rather prove my point. The post in question didn't question supporters level of support, that you neither engaged with the point or understood it speaks volumes. Psychologically, the question is why supporters choose the evening after a win to knock our own players. This can be extended to why they do it in such a hyperbolic manner, neither McLean or Gibson are as bad as the exagerated opinions stated. It develops in a rejection of tactics that are largely adopted across the Elite game (playing from the back or tippy tappy anyone). There is always a strange joy on here amongst some posters when we lose because it affirms their preconceived ideas. Why is that? The post didn't question these guys, and it is always guys, level of support. The question was why?

…and then you resort to belittling. Lost the argument squared 👍

[hogesar 9,744]

1 hour ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

...but the proof is there, both last season and this  ,where we've been a million miles off the top 2 

 

If that's the proof required then

Nunez

Sara

Gunn 

Aarons

Gini

Sargent

Pukki

Rowe

Are all not good enough.

[nu_matik 167]

45 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

...your list shows that pretty much every central midfielder in the prem and championship is in the scottish squad...which is what i said

...so again, what is your point?

That he's an international midfielder. Captain of Norwich City FC. Legend.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,800]

7 minutes ago, hogesar said:

If that's the proof required then

Nunez

Sara

Gunn 

Aarons

Gini

Sargent

Pukki

Rowe

Are all not good enough.

...but people are throwing around the line that McLean WAS part of a / good enough for a title/promioton winning side 3 and 5 seasons ago...so must still be now.

When he clearly isnt

Edited December 24, 2023 by GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary

[hogesar 9,744]

2 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

...but people are throwing around the line that McLean WAS part of a / good enough for a title/promioton winning side 3 and 5 seasons ago...so must still be now.

When he clearly isnt

You make it sound like he's 39.

Hes basically around the peak age when midfielders are at their top.

[nu_matik 167]

25 minutes ago, hogesar said:

You make it sound like he's 39.

Hes basically around the peak age when midfielders are at their top.

I think he thinks football is purely a numbers game and fans are blind if they're not GJL.

Kenny influences games in ways that won't show on the stats that fools value like it makes all the difference. 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,800]

1 minute ago, nu_matik said:

I think he thinks football is purely a numbers game and fans are blind if they're not GJL.

Kenny influences games in ways that won't show on the stats that fools value like it makes all the difference. 

How many games has he influenced in midfield this season?....because all I've seen for the large part is that he's been front and centre in a midfield who were being systematically sliced open each and every game ,conceding 20 odd chances?

[nu_matik 167]

1 minute ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

How many games has he influenced in midfield this season?....because all I've seen for the large part is that he's been front and centre in a midfield who were being systematically sliced open each and every game ,conceding 20 odd chances?

You do know that midfield has 4 sometimes 5 players?

If you're fully committed to this cr@p then give some examples of him at sole fault 

Go full scapegoat, you've verynearly completed the loony fan bingo

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,800]

12 minutes ago, nu_matik said:

You do know that midfield has 4 sometimes 5 players?

If you're fully committed to this cr@p then give some examples of him at sole fault 

Go full scapegoat, you've verynearly completed the loony fan bingo

He's been operating at the base of midfield all season..until his positional change

Dont you think he's at all culpable?, or cant he do a thing wrong in your rose tinted eyes?

[nu_matik 167]

1 minute ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

He's been operating at the base of midfield all season..until his positional change

Dont you think he's at all culpable?, or cant he do a thing wrong in your rose tinted eyes?

How exactly do you slice 'through' a 'midfield' and its one person's fault. Merry Xmas x

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,800]

3 minutes ago, nu_matik said:

How exactly do you slice 'through' a 'midfield' and its one person's fault. Merry Xmas x

Well he's been the 'defensive pivot'...so how do you judge his performances?

...and where are these examples of his influencing a midfield this season?

...and a happy new year x

[Number9 272]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Here's the thing you miss every time you quote me on Kenny.

I watch him. I've watched him. I'm at every home game and some away.

It just so happens that my opinion from watching him aligns with a long list of professional, experienced and proven managers, coaches, current players and ex players, as well as the stats you keep mentioning.

Your opinion aligns with a couple of other PinkUn posters, who twist every subject about Kenny into some ego-protecting method. So Kenny outperforms all our CBs and all the Kenny haters can say is its because he's not in midfield. It's really funny if you take a step back and read it through.

That is the difference. 

Merry Christmas though 🙃🙃

P.S having spoken to very recent ex players in person, I can guarantee they aren't fed up of Kenny. For them he's one of the first on the teamsheet.

We can agree to disagree matey, we both want our club to be successful at the end of the day, we just have differing opinions on how to get there.

Enjoy the hols Hoggy.

[nu_matik 167]

34 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Well he's been the 'defensive pivot'...so how do you judge his performances?

...and where are these examples of his influencing a midfield this season?

...and a happy new year x

He's made my life! Many happy feels. Captain Kenny.

[hogesar 9,744]

40 minutes ago, Number9 said:

We can agree to disagree matey, we both want our club to be successful at the end of the day, we just have differing opinions on how to get there.

Enjoy the hols Hoggy.

And you!

[BigFish 1,988]

56 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Well he's been the 'defensive pivot'...so how do you judge his performances?

...and where are these examples of his influencing a midfield this season?

...and a happy new year x

"Defensive pivot" is really a conflation of two things, neither really describe McLean's role. In reality he is an 8, but Wagner has asked when in possession to drop between the CBs and play out. And quite honestly I cannot see how anyone can say he hasn't done this part of the role very well. In addition, when he was out last season it proved beyond the abilities of Gibbs or any other of the options. Out of position he is asked to form one corner of a midfield box - and with Sargeant, Barnes and Sara this proved very effective at the start of the season. When 2 of the 4 were out the team just didn't have suitable personnel to fill the gap. Sara's positional weaknesses were exposed and we had a tricky period. Now because our CBs are unable to pass he is filling in at CB pretty much in the role he started but without cover behind, requiring discipline that he exhibits in abundance. The criricism he gets is pretty much driven by inexplicanle animus rather than careful judgement of his abilities.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,800]

25 minutes ago, BigFish said:

"Defensive pivot" is really a conflation of two things, neither really describe McLean's role. In reality he is an 8, but Wagner has asked when in possession to drop between the CBs and play out. And quite honestly I cannot see how anyone can say he hasn't done this part of the role very well. In addition, when he was out last season it proved beyond the abilities of Gibbs or any other of the options. Out of position he is asked to form one corner of a midfield box - and with Sargeant, Barnes and Sara this proved very effective at the start of the season. When 2 of the 4 were out the team just didn't have suitable personnel to fill the gap. Sara's positional weaknesses were exposed and we had a tricky period. Now because our CBs are unable to pass he is filling in at CB pretty much in the role he started but without cover behind, requiring discipline that he exhibits in abundance. The criricism he gets is pretty much driven by inexplicanle animus rather than careful judgement of his abilities.

Depends whether you believe that role holds any defensive responsibility?

I you do ,a glance at our goals against column shows that he wasnt performing that aspect well

[BigFish 1,988]

2 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Depends whether you believe that role holds any defensive responsibility?

I you do ,a glance at our goals against column shows that he wasnt performing that aspect well

Well, no it doesn't. The post was clear where the defenesive responsibilities lay (part of the box) and also the issue when we were on our poor run (inability to satisfatorily replace Sargeant and Barnes combined with Sara's poor positional sense). This left McLean exposed, on his own and vulnerable in a position he filled perfectly well, in fact better than most. Little wonder we had no grip in midfield, Rodri would have struggled in those conditions. That is why Hogie endlessly points out that the general view amongst those who know is that with this squad he is a valuable member of the starting 11.

[nu_matik 167]

11 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Well, no it doesn't. The post was clear where the defenesive responsibilities lay (part of the box) and also the issue when we were on our poor run (inability to satisfatorily replace Sargeant and Barnes combined with Sara's poor positional sense). This left McLean exposed, on his own and vulnerable in a position he filled perfectly well, in fact better than most. Little wonder we had no grip in midfield, Rodri would have struggled in those conditions. That is why Hogie endlessly points out that the general view amongst those who know is that with this squad he is a valuable member of the starting 11.

I feel your biggest problem is speaking sense.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,800]

11 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Well, no it doesn't. The post was clear where the defenesive responsibilities lay (part of the box) and also the issue when we were on our poor run (inability to satisfatorily replace Sargeant and Barnes combined with Sara's poor positional sense). This left McLean exposed, on his own and vulnerable in a position he filled perfectly well, in fact better than most. Little wonder we had no grip in midfield, Rodri would have struggled in those conditions. That is why Hogie endlessly points out that the general view amongst those who know is that with this squad he is a valuable member of the starting 11.

..so youre saying he has (had) no defensive responsibilties in that role in midfield at all?....who did then?