POTS

[ged in the onion bag 857]

Sorry state of affairs when you can win that trophy without really making any meaningful impact on the season!

Edited April 10, 2023 by ged in the onion bag

[Capt. Pants 4,287]

12 minutes ago, CANARYKING said:

How long does it take to count the votes

1hr 23 mins.

Mightbe a tad faster with a computer.

[Capt. Pants 4,287]

I voted Sara in the end on the basis it's his first season in a foreign land, can't speak the language etc etc and the brilliant goals he's scored.

Kenny has done well but at a 'bread and butter' level. In view of his experience that's a minimum really.

[Ken Hairy 3,781]

1 hour ago, city4eva said:

He has been better in a few games, but over the season Kenny has been better IMO

Disagree,  McLean like most others was appalling until Smith left. Sara has been consistently our best player under Wagner, whereas McLean whilst granted has improved not to the levels of Sara, its not even close imo.

 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,802]

32 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

I voted Sara in the end on the basis it's his first season in a foreign land, can't speak the language etc etc and the brilliant goals he's scored.

Kenny has done well but at a 'bread and butter' level. In view of his experience that's a minimum really.

Indeed...cant give a 6 out of 10 (7 on a good day) player POTS , who's been consistently part of a midfield overrun and outfought against the better sides in thd league, when Sara and even Hernandez have produced 8 of 9 out of 10 ,match winning performances.

If McLean wins , if would certainly be filed in the Lee Croft/Spencer Prior draw and would be the worst ever Barry Butler award.

However as others havd said, its ridiculous that the voting is closing with 6 games left...and possibly a further 3 afterwards

The full story hasnt yet been told , theres time for someone to yet sway it in their direction

[Feedthewolf 4,894]

41 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

I voted Sara in the end on the basis it's his first season in a foreign land, can't speak the language etc etc and the brilliant goals he's scored.

Kenny has done well but at a 'bread and butter' level. In view of his experience that's a minimum really.

So he plays better and more consistently than every other player in the squad, and that's a 'minimum' expectation? There are none so blind as those that will not see...

Just now, Ken Hairy said:

Disagree,  McLean like most others was appalling until Smith left. Sara has been consistently our best player under Wagner, whereas McLean whilst granted has improved not to the levels of Sara, its not even close imo.

And another one! He was decent under Smith, probably our best player, which isn't saying much but is still relative to the performances of his peers. He played way better than expectation at left-back when both Dimi and Sam were injured, was decent in his usual midfield role, and has now adapted again to play a DM role way better than could have been expected.

The blinkered attitude of some of our fans towards Kenny's strengths and abilities is quite staggering.

[Capt. Pants 4,287]

5 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

So he plays better and more consistently than every other player in the squad, and that's a 'minimum' expectation? There are none so blind as those that will not see...

And another one! He was decent under Smith, probably our best player, which isn't saying much but is still relative to the performances of his peers. He played way better than expectation at left-back when both Dimi and Sam were injured, was decent in his usual midfield role, and has now adapted again to play a DM role way better than could have been expected.

The blinkered attitude of some of our fans towards Kenny's strengths and abilities is quite staggering.

Crikey. I wish I hadn't bothered explaining/contributing why I voted the way I did.

Just give it to Kenny then and sod the vote. If he does win it, and he probably will, I'll applaud him warmly as much as the next person.

[Feedthewolf 4,894]

5 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Crikey. I wish I hadn't bothered explaining/contributing why I voted the way I did.

Just give it to Kenny then and sod the vote. If he does win it, and he probably will, I'll applaud him warmly as much as the next person.

Got no problem with you voting for Sara mate, and he's clearly a more talented player than Kenny. Second half of the season he's been immense. Similarly, I'm not saying Kenny should be a shoo-in for POTS.

I'm still interested to know how being the most consistent player in the squad, in three different positions (two of them unfamiliar), is a 'minimum expectation'. I'm not denying the bar is lower this season due to our patchy performances (and half the season under a crap manager), but you (and many other Norwich fans) appear reluctant to give anything other than faint praise (and grudgingly at that) to a player who's served us loyally for five and a half years, in numerous different positions.

Not bad for someone who cost us about £400k and had never played outside Scotland when we signed him. There's a reason why Farke, Smith and Wagner have all picked him week-in, week-out. I ask myself whether we've ever had a more undervalued and underappreciated player?

[Ken Hairy 3,781]

27 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

So he plays better and more consistently than every other player in the squad, and that's a 'minimum' expectation? There are none so blind as those that will not see...

And another one! He was decent under Smith, probably our best player, which isn't saying much but is still relative to the performances of his peers. He played way better than expectation at left-back when both Dimi and Sam were injured, was decent in his usual midfield role, and has now adapted again to play a DM role way better than could have been expected.

The blinkered attitude of some of our fans towards Kenny's strengths and abilities is quite staggering.

How am I blinkered?? I've clearly stated he's been one of our more improved players under Wagner, I've also stated it'd be between him and Sara for POTS, but for me Sara wins it and imo its not close either, Kenny has been reliable but Sara changes games, hes our best player by a country mile. That's my opinion which I'm entitled to.

I'm sorry, but Kenny under Smith was awful, but that's more on Smith than Kenny.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,802]

23 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Got no problem with you voting for Sara mate, and he's clearly a more talented player than Kenny. Second half of the season he's been immense. Similarly, I'm not saying Kenny should be a shoo-in for POTS.

I'm still interested to know how being the most consistent player in the squad, in three different positions (two of them unfamiliar), is a 'minimum expectation'. I'm not denying the bar is lower this season due to our patchy performances (and half the season under a crap manager), but you (and many other Norwich fans) appear reluctant to give anything other than faint praise (and grudgingly at that) to a player who's served us loyally for five and a half years, in numerous different positions.

Not bad for someone who cost us about £400k and had never played outside Scotland when we signed him. There's a reason why Farke, Smith and Wagner have all picked him week-in, week-out. I ask myself whether we've ever had a more undervalued and underappreciated player?

That 'reason' being that the club consistently failed to improve the vital midfield position, which not only saw us relegated but also a country mile off the top 2 in the championship and now scratching around for the last playoff place.

Nobody was good in the first half of the sesason except perhaps Hernandez who consistently changed games from the bench and Sargent who scored 10 before the world cup

McLean was a constant in a poor, weak midfield this season under Smith. Granted when Wagner came in , he dropped back a few yards to find a bit of extra space to execute a few passes from range against poor sides like Birmingham and Hull , however still overrun against the better sides.

I'd say Sara trumps that by the moments of matchwinning brilliance we've seen

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary

[Feedthewolf 4,894]

5 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

How am I blinkered?? I've clearly stated he's been one of our more improved players under Wagner, I've also stated it'd be between him and Sara for POTS, but for me Sara wins it and imo its not close either, Kenny has been reliable but Sara changes games, hes our best player by a country mile. That's my opinion which I'm entitled to.

I'm sorry, but Kenny under Smith was awful, but that's more on Smith than Kenny.

Yeah, fair points here, apologies if I came on a bit strong. I think I was treating you and Pants as emblematic of this tendency to criminally underrate Kenny, which has been happening for years. Yes Sara changes games, no denying it, and had he not been injured at the start of the season and then taken a bit of time to settle in, he'd have won it by a distance (and he may still do so).

Agree to differ on Kenny under Smith; we had very little attacking flair under Smith, no dynamic front-foot pressing or exciting interplay really, so Kenny's no-nonsense water-carrying work in the midfield was even more necessary than usual. Yes, he played a few dreadfully misplaced passes, but for me he was our most consistent player in that period.

[Feedthewolf 4,894]

1 minute ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

That 'reason' being that the club consistently failed to improve the vital midfield position, which not only saw us relegated but also a country mile off the top 2 in the championship and now scratching around for the last playoff place.

Nobody was good in the first half of the sesason except perhaps Hernandez who consistently changed games from the bench

McLean was a constant in a poor, weak midfield this season under Smith. Granted when Wagner came in , he dropped back a few yards to find a bit of extra space to execute a few passes from range against poor sides like Birmingham and Hull , however still overrun against the better sides.

I'd say Sara trumps that by the moments of matchwinning brilliance we've seen

I'm not trying to say that I think our recruitment has been satisfactory over the past couple of years; what I'm trying to say is that three successive managers maybe don't see Kenny as someone that they desperately need to replace as much as some of our fans do.

The single biggest failure in our recruitment has been the persistent failure to fill the hole that Tettey left in front of the back four when he retired (of course we had Skipp on loan for Tettey's final season, but for the past two years it's been absolutely glaring). Having players like Kenny in the team gives players like Sara more latitude to do the game-changing stuff that they do.

[Robert N. LiM 4,536]

11 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

That 'reason' being that the club consistently failed to improve the vital midfield position, which not only saw us relegated but also a country mile off the top 2 in the championship and now scratching around for the last playoff place.

I think this is the reason Kenny gets so much stick. Not because of his own strengths and weaknesses, which are what they've always been, but that we expect the club to have developed to the point where we have better midfielders than him.

The weird thing is that you could write exactly the same sentence about Onel and wingers, but lots of the people who seem to have it in for Kenny love Onel.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,802]

9 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

I'm not trying to say that I think our recruitment has been satisfactory over the past couple of years; what I'm trying to say is that three successive managers maybe don't see Kenny as someone that they desperately need to replace as much as some of our fans do.

The single biggest failure in our recruitment has been the persistent failure to fill the hole that Tettey left in front of the back four when he retired (of course we had Skipp on loan for Tettey's final season, but for the past two years it's been absolutely glaring). Having players like Kenny in the team gives players like Sara more latitude to do the game-changing stuff that they do.

Well 2 of those managers have been sacked and the league table doesnt lie this season regarding how far we are off the top 2, so maybe they should have placed more importance in improving the personnel in a vital area of the pitch

I'd say pre world cup Sargent was comfortably our best player scoring 10 goals ,post world cup Sara by a distance

Both were / are perfoming far better than McLean has at their peak

When we look at the list of winners of the Barry Butler award you'd hope that the winner will be someone who made some excelldnt performances and created memorable moments for at least part of the season rather than someone who was average / not quite as sh!t as most others throughout

[Robert N. LiM 4,536]

7 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

When we look at the list of winners of the Barry Butler award you'd hope that the winner will be someone who made some excelldnt performances and created memorable moments for at least part of the season rather than someone who was average / not quite as sh!t as most others throughout

Take the point, but I always quite enjoyed the fact that when Darren Huckerby won us the league single-handedly in 2004 our player of the season was Craig Fleming. I think there's room for the unsung hero to be rewarded from time to time, and they don't come more unsung than the Mayor. It's his year. Sara can win it next year, as he fires us to the title. 😉

[The Bristol Nest 517]

Its Kenny and I don't care if you can't understand why it is him.🙂

[Robert N. LiM 4,536]

2 minutes ago, The Bristol Nest said:

Its Kenny and I don't care if you can't understand why it is him.🙂

It's Kenny's world and we're just living in it

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,802]

1 minute ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Take the point, but I always quite enjoyed the fact that when Darren Huckerby won us the league single-handedly in 2004 our player of the season was Craig Fleming. I think there's room for the unsung hero to be rewarded from time to time, and they don't come more unsung than the Mayor. It's his year. Sara can win it next year, as he fires us to the title. 😉

That was an odd one...I would have said that in the history of the Barry Butler award 2004 was as clear cut an award as there ever was..or should have been. Huckerby was blatantly the POTS , not saying he won us the league single handedly but we was the difference in turning a team who 'may' have made the playoffs into a title winning one

[Robert N. LiM 4,536]

Just now, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

That was an odd one...I would have said that in the history of the Barry Butler award 2004 was as clear cut an award as there ever was..or should have been. Huckerby was blatantly the POTS , not saying he won us the league single handedly but we was the difference in turning a team who 'may' have made the playoffs into a title winning one

Yes, it was very strange. I was joking (or at least exaggerating) about Hucks winning it singlehandedly, but he should clearly have been POTS that year. I suspect lots of people thought that he'd win it by miles but wanted some of our other stalwarts to get some recognition too - and then Flem ended up winning almost by accident...