What if nobody can get the best out of this squad?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,564]

I woke up thinking this morning about Kenny McLean's sense of failure and how he  felt he had failed Daniel Farke when Farke was sacked.

What if most of the squad that was here under Farke carries that thought in their mind, that they're just not good enough no matter how much confidence they have in the manager?

On paper. Smith is the best manager we've ever recruited in my time following the club, but there's no ignoring the fact that, although the squad seems happy enough with him, they're simply not performing to the levels expected, and at the half way point, yesterday was probably the worst performance of the season after a long break that was supposed to see a step up in performances.

I'm wondering if there's simply no solution to this and we have to resign ourselves to the championship for a while until there has been enough squad turnover to reset.

Edited December 18, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[astro 364]

I think you got it wrong in your first sentence - I don’t think you woke up this morning. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,564]

5 minutes ago, astro said:

I think you got it wrong in your first sentence - I don’t think you woke up this morning. 

It's a great start to a blues song though...

[astro 364]

3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

It's a great start to a blues song though...

Nah, it’ll never catch on 😂

[littleyellowbirdie 2,564]

Just now, astro said:

Nah, it’ll never catch on 😂

The Carrow Road Blues seem to have been a best seller for some time now. 😉

[littleyellowbirdie 2,564]

Woke up this morning (duh dah duh de duh)

We lost to Blackburn (duh dah duh de duh)

Our fans all hate us (duh dah duh de duh)

They think the boss is a clown (duh dah duh de duh)

We want to change it (duh dah duh de duh)

But we can't find a way (duh dah duh de duh)

Delia's heart is broken and the raaaaain is comin' down.

Woooooah the reaper is a callin', for Smith and Shakey (duh de duh de duh de-duh-de-duh)

But what we're all wondrin', the opinion of Lakey? (duh de duh de duh de-duh-de-duh)

No, there ain't no hidin' it, we got the Carrow Road blues... (descending progression to final chord)

 

 

[The Real Buh 3,446]

37 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I woke up thinking this morning about Kenny McLean's sense of failure and how he  felt he had failed Daniel Farke when Farke was sacked.

What if most of the squad that was here under Farke carries that thought in their mind, that they're just not good enough no matter how much confidence they have in the manager?

On paper. Smith is the best manager we've ever recruited in my time following the club, but there's no ignoring the fact that, although the squad seems happy enough with him, they're simply not performing to the levels expected, and at the half way point, yesterday was probably the worst performance of the season after a long break that was supposed to see a step up in performances.

I'm wondering if there's simply no solution to this and we have to resign ourselves to the championship for a while until there has been enough squad turnover to reset.

Literally anybody would do a better job. Dean Smith is a horrendous manger on or off paper. His legacy is secure.

[kirku 1,334]

I'm interested in the idea that Dean Smith is "the best manager on paper in your lifetime" - what is this based on?

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,333]

2 minutes ago, kirku said:

I'm interested in the idea that Dean Smith is "the best manager on paper in your lifetime" - what is this based on?

Well he managed the great Aston villa... In the premier league... And they beat Liverpool don't you know! 😉

Edited December 18, 2022 by GodlyOtsemobor

[The Real Buh 3,446]

3 minutes ago, kirku said:

I'm interested in the idea that Dean Smith is "the best manager on paper in your lifetime" - what is this based on?

A lot of people put a lot of chips on Deano for some reason 

Shakey ate the chips when he was done with the pies

[kirku 1,334]

1 minute ago, GodlyOtsemobor said:

Well he managed the great Aston villa... In the premier league... And they beat Liverpool don't you know! 😉

As far as I can tell, he underperformed at Villa with a huge transfer spend and did relatively well at Brentford until his successor absolutely blew his achievements out of the water.

[kirku 1,334]

2 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

A lot of people put a lot of chips on Deano for some reason 

Shakey ate the chips when he was done with the pies

And now many of them carry those chips on their shoulders..

Edited December 18, 2022 by kirku

[Ken Hairy 3,774]

7 minutes ago, kirku said:

I'm interested in the idea that Dean Smith is "the best manager on paper in your lifetime" - what is this based on?

I smirked at that comment too,  I'm presuming the OP is 2 years old 😉

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,333]

2 minutes ago, kirku said:

As far as I can tell, he underperformed at Villa with a huge transfer spend and did relatively well at Brentford until his successor absolutely blew his achievements out of the water.

Out of reactions so you get a hefty 👍

[littleyellowbirdie 2,564]

13 minutes ago, kirku said:

I'm interested in the idea that Dean Smith is "the best manager on paper in your lifetime" - what is this based on?

Best manager we've recruited, but in fairness I meant to add the term 'on paper.'

That's true. It's the first time we've recruited a manager who already has Championship promotion and Premier League survival on their CV.

Edit: Looking again, I did have the phrase 'on paper' already there.

Edited December 18, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[littleyellowbirdie 2,564]

9 minutes ago, kirku said:

As far as I can tell, he underperformed at Villa with a huge transfer spend and did relatively well at Brentford until his successor absolutely blew his achievements out of the water.

How can anyone say what 'underperforming' is? Player value doesn't always equate to player ability in a different context. Buendia went to Villa for a fortune, but I don't think what he has done for the club reflects what they paid.

Clubs have succeeded spending less money; clubs have failed spending more money. All you can say is that he succeeded on the metrics I stated with what he had at his disposal.

[kirku 1,334]

9 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Best manager we've recruited, but in fairness I meant to add the term 'on paper.'

That's true. It's the first time we've recruited a manager who already has Championship promotion and Premier League survival on their CV.

Edit: Looking again, I did have the phrase 'on paper' already there.

Roeder and Hughton had better pedigrees before joining Norwich.

O'Neil and Megson achieved more afterwards. Farke will quite possibly join that list.

Hell, Rioch was probably a better appointment on paper..

[littleyellowbirdie 2,564]

1 minute ago, kirku said:

Roeder and Hughton had better pedigrees before joining Norwich.

O'Neil and Megson achieved more afterwards. Farke will quite possibly join that list.

Hell, Rioch was probably a better appointment on paper..

That's interesting, because Roeder and Hughton are the two most unpopular managers historically. Maybe we should never recruit managers with good CVs?

[kirku 1,334]

7 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

How can anyone say what 'underperforming' is?

Smith wildly underperformed in the Championship with Villa with the squad he had.

Getting a team with Grealish and Abraham into 5th is not a good achievement.

Especially when the rest of the squad had a large number of decent PL performers and outstanding Champ players in it.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,564]

Just now, kirku said:

Smith wildly underperformed in the Championship with Villa with the squad he had.

Getting a team with Grealish and Abraham into 5th is not a good achievement.

Especially when the rest of the squad had a large number of decent PL performers and outstanding Champ players in it.

You've already stated that opinion, and I've acknowledged it and pointed out the reasons it's not as cut and dry as you present it.

Grealish and Abraham came to attention as top players under Smith.

[Ken Hairy 3,774]

Also have a look at Brentfords records in the seasons prior to Smith as well as after. He was a failure there too.

[kirku 1,334]

4 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

That's interesting, because Roeder and Hughton are the two most unpopular managers historically. Maybe we should never recruit managers with good CVs?

Hughton was unpopular for his style of play but admired for his personality.

Can't say the same for Smith.

After his comments yesterday, he's probably heading towards Roeder levels of animosity.

FWIW, I think I preferred us under Hughton. It at least looked like he had a plan and so we could see what we were trying to do. It was dull as dishwater but I didn't feel as disconnected as I do under Smith.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

19 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Best manager we've recruited, but in fairness I meant to add the term 'on paper.'

That's true. It's the first time we've recruited a manager who already has Championship promotion and Premier League survival on their CV.

Edit: Looking again, I did have the phrase 'on paper' already there.

Err,  no.

"On paper" that was probably Bruce Rioch who took Bolton up from what is now League One to the Premier League in 3 seasons, reaching a domestic cup final whilst a Championship club. Didn't keep Bolton up because he took the Arsenal job instead. 

In terms of footballing CV... Rioch been by far our most ambitious appointment.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,564]

Just now, Ken Hairy said:

Also have a look at Brentfords records in the seasons prior to Smith as well as after. He was a failure there too.

The commentary from fans at Brentford upon announcement that he was going to Villa disagrees with your point of view.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2018/10/11/brentford-fans-react-on-twitter-as-dean-smith-leaves-for-aston-v/

[littleyellowbirdie 2,564]

1 minute ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Err,  no.

"On paper" that was probably Bruce Rioch who took Bolton up from what is now League One to the Premier League in 3 seasons, reaching a domestic cup final whilst a Championship club. Didn't keep Bolton up because he took the Arsenal job instead. 

In terms of footballing CV... Rioch been by far our most ambitious appointment.

Again, great CV, didn't deliver for us. Starting to look like going for managers with good CVs is a mistake.

[Branston Pickle 3,669]

2 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Also have a look at Brentfords records in the seasons prior to Smith as well as after. He was a failure there too.

Suc a failure that Villa poached him? Interesting. Some will know about my links to Brentford, and he’s definitely not regarded as a failure there.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,564]

3 minutes ago, kirku said:

Hughton was unpopular for his style of play but admired for his personality.

Can't say the same for Smith.

After his comments yesterday, he's probably heading towards Roeder levels of animosity.

FWIW, I think I preferred us under Hughton. It at least looked like he had a plan and so we could see what we were trying to do. It was dull as dishwater but I didn't feel as disconnected as I do under Smith.

So Hughton should have stayed because he was a nice guy?

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

Just now, Branston Pickle said:

Such a failure that Villa poached him?

He was a feel good appointment because he is a Villa fan and their prior manager had no affinity to the fans or club.

Similar reason people started calling for Robins, Martin etc at frustration with Smiths failure to connect with the fans here.

Same reason Rangers always try and sign Rangers fans as players like Dorrans.

[kirku 1,334]

2 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

You've already stated that opinion, and I've acknowledged it and pointed out the reasons it's not as cut and dry as you present it.

Grealish and Abraham came to attention as top players under Smith.

That was a separate point I made about transfer spend, which was not the season I referenced.

Yes, Grealish broke through under Smith - but that was a matter of timing rather than anything else. 

Abraham already had a great season at Bristol in the Champ and a full season in the PL with Swansea before going to Villa. The very next season he played over 30 games and scored 15 goals for Chelsea.

You don't get players of that quality very often in the Champ. And when you do, they usually don't end up finishing 5th. 

[Branston Pickle 3,669]

1 minute ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

He was a feel good appointment because he is a Villa fan and their prior manager had no affinity to the fans or club.

Similar reason people started calling for Robins, Martin etc at frustration with Smiths failure to connect with the fans here.

Same reason Rangers always try and sign Rangers fans as players like Dorrans.

Or maybe that they thought he’d do a decent job.