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nevermind, neoliberalism has had it

what might a Ukraine peace agreement look like

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Since there are so many fine minds here who are all interested in peace whilst wallowing in the overall Russo phobic memes, there are some who care more about peace and a cease fire. Whether their plans, they are talking in Turkey at present, will have any bearing on the crescendo of media and punditry is to be seen.

But should you be interested to feed your ideas into such a debate, feel free to do so, on the link provided. I will not answer here to anything that can be discussed on the link. enjoy, engage and encourage. Its page 1 of 4

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2022/05/what-might-a-ukraine-peace-agreement-look-like/comment-page-1/#comments

 

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32 minutes ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

Since there are so many fine minds here who are all interested in peace whilst wallowing in the overall Russo phobic memes, there are some who care more about peace and a cease fire. Whether their plans, they are talking in Turkey at present, will have any bearing on the crescendo of media and punditry is to be seen.

But should you be interested to feed your ideas into such a debate, feel free to do so, on the link provided. I will not answer here to anything that can be discussed on the link. enjoy, engage and encourage. Its page 1 of 4

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2022/05/what-might-a-ukraine-peace-agreement-look-like/comment-page-1/#comments

 

It will be some words, possibly not in English, possibly written on a piece of paper, it will be signed by whoever is in charge of the two parties involved.

 

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There will be no peace agreement. It requires Russia to leave an independent nation alone and remove its forces. Ukraine is not the aggressor here.

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Posted (edited)

Craig Murray's proposed 'solution' addressed, item by item. I don't know why the proposed 'solution' of one relatively unremarkable former diplomat should be of much account anyway, but here goes. 


-Ukraine to cede Crimea to Russia

If Ukraine was to choose to agree to this, then fair enough, but given that the world had de facto allowed this in 2014 and Ukraine had thus de facto accepted it, if not officially, then Russia's subsequent aggression puts its future back on the table. 
-Russia to hand back all other occupied Ukrainian territory
Russia should definitely do this given its invasion is a war of aggression contrary to international law, having made no attempt before the event to make any case to the international community, aside from the provable war crimes conducted by Russian forces such as the shooting of unarmed security in the back on CCTV by Russian soldiers. 
-A devolution settlement for Donbass

There's no reason why Ukraine should agree to this, nor will it. 
-Russian again to be an official language in Ukraine

Given that Russia's intentions against Ukraine are already clearly genocidal, I have no idea why the Ukranian government would accept genocidal ideas against it in a peace agreement, nor why Craig Murray supports this attack on Ukranian culture. 
-Ukraine to be acknowledged as a sovereign state free to join NATO or EU if it chooses

This is reasonable. 
-An Arms Control Treaty restricting weapons systems in Ukraine and neighbouring Russia

Russia will never accept any arms controls on it. Ukraine voluntarily agreed to arms controls in 1994 when it gave its nuclear Arsenal to Russia, so Ukraine agreeing to arms control in exchange for assurances from Russia sounds extremely stupid to me. 
-An end to all EU and US sanctions on Russia imposed following the invasion
That's for the EU and US to decide based on Russia's actions towards Ukraine; it has no bearing on bilateral treaties between Ukraine and Russia. 

-A joint War Crimes Commission, and Truth and Reconciliation process, but immunities for agreed persons (including Putin)

Utterly worthless where Russia is concerned, given the Russian government's complete dishonesty. 
-An international fund for reconstruction, including provision for relocation assistance for Russian speakers wishing to leave Donbass or Ukrainians wishing to leave Crimea.

A Russian fund for reconstruction of Ukraine should absolutely be part of it. 

Edited by littleyellowbirdie

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I was thinking Puti would make some gains in the East and then declare victory by 9th May.

 

Now it's beginning to look like the Russians are being pushed back towards their start lines (albeit in many areas they'd encroached will into Ukraine before the current invasion).

 

Also, a War Crimes commission where the guilty parties are given immunity at the start. Hmmm......

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I expect to see Ukrainian demands for Russia to get out of Crimea

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Regardless of if an agreement is made, is there really any way back for Russia into the international community while Putin is in the hot seat?

Like a cheating spouse, once the trust is gone, it’s game over for that relationship.

Look at the Bosnian/Serbian leaders from the early 90’s… either dead or rotting away their retirement in lovely places like HMP Wakefield:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radislav_Krstić

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