A major puzzle

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

but not keeping me awake at night:

With virtually every signing and sale having an add-on clause written into the deal nowadays (and even for loan deals) who is responsible for monitoring all of this?  

Is the buying club responsible for, for example, keeping a count of the number of a player's appearances; with a penalty written into the contract should they transgress, (rather like the seller of a second property is responsible for declaring capital gains at risk of a massive fine from the tax man should he/she attempt avoidance) or does a club like NCFC have to employ a person in the office with the sole responsibility of monitoring add-ons?

I remember that many of us doubted/ridiculed the need for a loans manager when Neil Adams was appointed, but these off-field roles seem necessary in today's game.

Edited August 10, 2021 by BroadstairsR

[CDMullins 498]

Both you'd assume 

There have been occasions where players have been dropped purely so they don't cross the 'x' amount of games threshold and trigger a further payment.

And likewise the smaller clubs who maybe be due payment would be counting every game.

[Greavsy 2,645]

I would think the ones we have sold with a sell on clause,  IE Emi / Maddison etc, I think they would only need to trawl this forum to see how much is due and what the triggers are! 

Seriously, im sure the clubs will have someone who monitors all that, from both sides, and will have trigger points when they are nearing a payment either way. IE if we have to pay a further fee / make a loan permanent, on a certain number or appearances etc, and we dont want that to happen, it would be flagged. There are so many stats on players these days, that's not impossible to keep track of everything, and i would think both interested clubs would keep their own in house.  

[Greavsy 2,645]

Just now, CDMullins said:

Both you'd assume 

There have been occasions where players have been dropped purely so they don't cross the 'x' amount of games threshold and trigger a further payment.

And likewise the smaller clubs who maybe be due payment would be counting every game.

you just beat me to it! I think we are saying the same though! #respect

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

I would guess both, to a greater or lesser extent. Good point about smaller clubs.

Some of these add-ons when becoming sell-ons can get quite involved though with three/four clubs involved.

If Madisson is sold on at profit by Leicester, we (and Coventry?) will have some interest in the transaction.

The girl/boy in the office would need more than a GCSE in mathematics to keep track competently.

[Greavsy 2,645]

Why would Coventry have any thing in a further sell on, we would have paid that to them when we sold him. thats the end of that contract / agreement. 

[shefcanary 2,950]

I think a copy of all player contracts has to be lodged with the FA?  I may be wrong but I think the FA ultimately "keep the score".

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

3 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

Why would Coventry have any thing in a further sell on, we would have paid that to them when we sold him. thats the end of that contract / agreement. 

They may or may not have. It's why I put the question mark.

It would amount to further profit that we would have made on Madisson, so it could be in original the contract in some way.

[Greavsy 2,645]

1 minute ago, BroadstairsR said:

They may or may not have. It's why I put the question mark.

It would amount to further profit that we would have made on Madisson, so it could be in original the contract in some way.

Im sure its only for the 'next' sale, not every sale thereafter............

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

6 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

I think a copy of all player contracts has to be lodged with the FA?  I may be wrong but I think the FA ultimately "keep the score".

Perhaps so, but many of these deals are international. Buendia's, for example.

This might make litigation difficult should the agreement not be adhered to.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,215]

38 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

but not keeping me awake at night:

With virtually every signing and sale having an add-on clause written into the deal nowadays (and even for loan deals) who is responsible for monitoring all of this?  

Is the buying club responsible for, for example, keeping a count of the number of a player's appearances; with a penalty written into the contract should they transgress, (rather like the seller of a second property is responsible for declaring capital gains at risk of a massive fine from the tax man should he/she attempt avoidance) or does a club like NCFC have to employ a person in the office with the sole responsibility of monitoring add-ons?

I remember that many of us doubted/ridiculed the need for a loans manager when Neil Adams was appointed, but these off-field roles seem necessary in today's game.

The thing that really puzzles me is this. Whatever happens to sell on clauses if the player in question is swapped for a player at another club (or if a player swap is part of the deal).  Is it just tough luck on the team that sold the player with the sell on clause in the first place or is there some mechanism to determine how much the swapped player was worth. 

(There was talk recently of Arsenal swapping players plus cash for Maddison). 

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

2 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

The thing that really puzzles me is this. Whatever happens to sell on clauses if the player in question is swapped for a player at another club (or if a player swap is part of the deal).  Is it just tough luck on the team that sold the player with the sell on clause in the first place or is there some mechanism to determine how much the swapped player was worth. 

(There was talk recently of Arsenal swapping players plus cash for Maddison). 

Yep! That too.

Come to think of it, this puzzle might keep me awake at night after all.

[Greavsy 2,645]

3 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

The thing that really puzzles me is this. Whatever happens to sell on clauses if the player in question is swapped for a player at another club (or if a player swap is part of the deal).  Is it just tough luck on the team that sold the player with the sell on clause in the first place or is there some mechanism to determine how much the swapped player was worth. 

(There was talk recently of Arsenal swapping players plus cash for Maddison). 

Im sure some one answered that on the other thread, to do with clubs declaring value to HMRC for VAT purposes and the like?  

[Greavsy 2,645]

Just now, Greavsy said:

Im sure some one answered that on the other thread, to do with clubs declaring value to HMRC for VAT purposes and the like?  

If thats the case - im sure we would be a due a refund for the VAT we paid on Naismith, as he added no value! 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,215]

12 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

Im sure some one answered that on the other thread, to do with clubs declaring value to HMRC for VAT purposes and the like?  

Thanks - I'd missed that. 

[Greavsy 2,645]

Just now, Thirsty Lizard said:

Thanks - I'd missed that. 

Cant remember which thread it was now - but went into some details, and was very informative. 

Id link it if I could remember which one it was, apologies. 

 

[GenerationA47 864]

42 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

If thats the case - im sure we would be a due a refund for the VAT we paid on Naismith, as he added no value! 

Well played sir!

[Mr Angry 2,016]

1 hour ago, Greavsy said:

Why would Coventry have any thing in a further sell on, we would have paid that to them when we sold him. thats the end of that contract / agreement. 

With Maddison, no but every time a player is sold until the end of the season in which he turns 23, any club that he trained with between the ages of 12 and 21 is entitled to compensation. Hence Jadon Sancho went from Watford to Man City (fee decided by tribunal), then Man City sold him to Dortmund. When Dortmund sold him to Man Utd, Watford got £2.19 million compensation from the sale-it’s a percentage of the transfer fee-even though they never had any future transfer clauses in the original transfer to City. City also got over £1 million compensation, plus an amount they were due to get because of the future transfer clause when they sold him to Dortmund.

Details of the compensation scheme are in Annex 4 of this document.

https://digitalhub.fifa.com/m/41c272bcbc3b19df/original/c83ynehmkp62h5vgwg9g-pdf.pdf

Edited August 10, 2021 by Mr Angry