Rupp and Duda

[Jim Smith 2,540]

Its not Rupp's fault he's not Emi and I don't think he's been that bad but if Farke continues to play him at the expense of the likes of Vrancic and Buendia in games we need to win then its almost inevitable he will be made the fall guy by some fans. Its very unusual for Farke to put new signings straight into the side like he has done with Duda and Rupp as well. Usually he keeps faith with his existing players until such time as they give him cause to change it. 

Duda's stats don't surprise me as he generally keeps things very simple and low risk. Its no surprise therefore that statistically he is a player who performs well although i'd query how much he;s actually created for us in the last few games.

[king canary 8,644]

1 hour ago, Alex Moss said:

Totally agree there, Kingo. I think the thing with Rupp is we know he’s absolutely nothing like Emi who is just mercurial on the ball when he’s ‘on it’. From what I’ve seen of Rupp, he appears to be more neat and tidy in his style, everyone was awful at Wolves come 90mins (maybe not Krul?), but bar the underhit pass to Pukki against Liverpool I thought he was good in that game and against Bournemouth. Unfortunately, as we saw last season when Cantwell filled in during Emi’s suspension, the supporters tend to get a bit annoyed with who Farke selects in ‘Emi’s place’. But I too would like to see Emi return though. Hopefully, if I’m reading the Emi exclusion situation correctly, Emi will take his mentors comments on board, take stock, and think ‘I will show him! (in a good way!)’. Leicester at home under the floodlights is made for him, he’s got to get that opening goal sooner or later, he’s too talented not to!

This is where I don't agree- I'm not down on Rupp because he's not Emi, I'm down on him because he's not anything right now. If he a player that makes us more solid? Not hugely in my opinion. Does he create anything? Nope. Is he scaring defenses with pace? Again, nope. Does he see passes others don't? Not as far as I can see.

[Woodman 92]

I thought Rupp had a pretty good game v Liverpool & at Burnley.  He, and 8 or 9 others had a stinker at Wolves.

For me, Duda needs a player closer to him when he receives the ball with his back to goal.  I think he and Emi would work well together.  It's worth pointing out though that neither has scored or even taken many shots at goal.

I don't blame Farke for playing Rupp in the last couple of games where we were going to be on the back foot for most of the game, it made sense to have someone who should be more solid defensively than Emi.

Leicester might be another game where the opposition are going to be on top, but but we're running out of games to be playing on the break and trying to nick a win

 

[nutty nigel 7,870]

38 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Haha, you do see that a lot, it’s very true, Eddie. They make for some interesting reading at times, but there’s no better way to truly judge a player than by watching them on Grefstad’s 165’’ TV

I will get in trouble for this but sometimes it's difficult to judge a player when you only see what the cameraman shows you.

And also we all judge by the stats that please us while sometimes forgetting that it's a team game. A functioning team needs players with all sorts of strengths. It's no good having a midfield full of players who have great passing stats if none of them can win a header.

This isn't a post supporting Rupp to play in front of Emi btw. I'd always pick Emi. But I'm not sure about picking both Emi and Duda. Time will tell I guess.

Edited February 25, 2020 by nutty nigel

[Alex Moss 2,167]

29 minutes ago, king canary said:

This is where I don't agree- I'm not down on Rupp because he's not Emi, I'm down on him because he's not anything right now. If he a player that makes us more solid? Not hugely in my opinion. Does he create anything? Nope. Is he scaring defenses with pace? Again, nope. Does he see passes others don't? Not as far as I can see.

Just to clarify, I’m actually agreeing with you - I wasn’t suggesting that’s why you’re not too keen on Rupp thus far, I just think that’s the way the supporters will go if he keeps getting played in ‘Emi’s place’. But that said I think Emi’s best position would be in the number 10 role, and perhaps move Duda a little wider. I’ve not seen anything of Rupp’s career prior to signing for us, but I think he’ll come into his own playing a different role for the team - where, admittedly I’m not sure yet. It looks like the general consensus is that so far he’s looked as good as any of current team in the last 6 games - good performances against Bournemouth, Burnley and Liverpool, not so good against Spurs, Newcastle and Wolves. 

[king canary 8,644]

4 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Just to clarify, I’m actually agreeing with you - I wasn’t suggesting that’s why you’re not too keen on Rupp thus far, I just think that’s the way the supporters will go if he keeps getting played in ‘Emi’s place’. But that said I think Emi’s best position would be in the number 10 role, and perhaps move Duda a little wider. I’ve not seen anything of Rupp’s career prior to signing for us, but I think he’ll come into his own playing a different role for the team - where, admittedly I’m not sure yet. It looks like the general consensus is that so far he’s looked as good as any of current team in the last 6 games - good performances against Bournemouth, Burnley and Liverpool, not so good against Spurs, Newcastle and Wolves. 

To me, Rupp looks like a player who may be decent in a central role- neat, tidy, lots of energy. The kind of player that gives a platform for others to build off. Even then though I'm not convinced he offers anything more than what we already have.

Duda has really not been as advertised- my understanding was he was the kind of attacking midfielder who'd be positive and look to get into scoring positions. However I'm not sure I remember him really doing that, instead he seems to stay deeper and often goes missing.

 

[Alex Moss 2,167]

6 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I will get in trouble for this but sometimes it's difficult to judge a player when you only see what the cameraman shows you.

And also we all judge by the stats that please us while sometimes forgetting that it's a team game. A functioning team needs players with all sorts of strengths. It's no good having a midfield full of players who have great passing stats if none of them can win a header.

This isn't a post supporting Rupp to play in front of Emi btw. I'd always pick Emi. But I'm not sure about picking both Emi and Duda. Time will tell I guess.

The old debate about watching the game live or watching it on TV I must admit has always interested me, Eddie. My personal experience is that they both really do have their benefits - exactly as you say, you can only see what the cameraman wants you to see, yet I don’t know how many times I’ve been at a game, and because of the seat that’s been allocated the players themselves at times can block the view of what’s happening. So I can sympathise with the ‘complete armchairs’ (though in fairness, that may not be through any fault of their own, we support how we wish to support 🙂). Yet by being at the game I suppose you could at least see Mark Bosnich off camera in the 23rd minute making a roll up for Paul McGrath, Jack Wilshere and David Ginola haha. I think stats can be interesting, as they were earlier when it showed that actually Grant Hanley has ‘statistically’ been a lot better than some are pig headedly refusing to concede because they’ve already decided and that’s it.
 

But make no mistake, there is no better way of judging a player for yourself than with your own eyes. And I feel those players should be given the respect of being allowed a decent amount of games, everyone should have the chance to ‘bed in’, especially those from other countries where the tactics, style and pace can be quite different. But then as you know, we shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone who’s been watching football for more than 3 months. I certainly wouldn’t use stats to tell me whether a player is good or not, I think that’s a bit weird buddy 😂. Eyes and time will tell you everything you need to know 👍🏼

[Alex Moss 2,167]

17 minutes ago, king canary said:

To me, Rupp looks like a player who may be decent in a central role- neat, tidy, lots of energy. The kind of player that gives a platform for others to build off. Even then though I'm not convinced he offers anything more than what we already have.

Duda has really not been as advertised- my understanding was he was the kind of attacking midfielder who'd be positive and look to get into scoring positions. However I'm not sure I remember him really doing that, instead he seems to stay deeper and often goes missing.

 

Duda really impressed me against Bournemouth, infact I think everyone was thinking this lad could be the turning point. Equally, I saw him look a little hesitant in 50/50 balls against Liverpool and that kind of worried me a bit. But I appreciate he’s adapting and probably not come into the easiest situation. I hope to see what I think he’s capable of against Leicester on Friday night. Just wondering, have we started Pukki, Cantwell, Buendia and Duda together yet? I’d like to see that, there could be no excuses for not scoring with such a creative combined front 4 as that 👍🏼

[wcorkcanary 4,681]

2 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

The old debate about watching the game live or watching it on TV I must admit has always interested me, Eddie. My personal experience is that they both really do have their benefits - exactly as you say, you can only see what the cameraman wants you to see, yet I don’t know how many times I’ve been at a game, and because of the seat that’s been allocated the players themselves at times can block the view of what’s happening. So I can sympathise with the ‘complete armchairs’ (though in fairness, that may not be through any fault of their own, we support how we wish to support 🙂). Yet by being at the game I suppose you could at least see Mark Bosnich off camera in the 23rd minute making a roll up for Paul McGrath, Jack Wilshere and David Ginola haha. I think stats can be interesting, as they were earlier when it showed that actually Grant Hanley has ‘statistically’ been a lot better than some are pig headedly refusing to concede because they’ve already decided and that’s it.
 

But make no mistake, there is no better way of judging a player for yourself than with your own eyes. And I feel those players should be given the respect of being allowed a decent amount of games, everyone should have the chance to ‘bed in’, especially those from other countries where the tactics, style and pace can be quite different. But then as you know, we shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone who’s been watching football for more than 3 months. I certainly wouldn’t use stats to tell me whether a player is good or not, I think that’s a bit weird buddy 😂. Eyes and time will tell you everything you need to know 👍🏼

And an open mind. Once some people get an idea in their head ,nothing will change their opinion. 

I took part in an interesting  exercise once, 30 students on a coaching course were asked to evaluate  the same player,  that didnt know he was the object of the exercise. The post match assessments varied wildly. With the player receiving  Mark's from 4/10 to 8/10 and remarks varying from 'sloppy' to ' key playmaker '. Funnily enough, those that were more experienced and highly qualified agreed more in his performance. The purpose of the exercise was to teach the students( all adults) that what you think may not ,in fact be true, as the match was recorded and analyzed in the class room afterward  by a team of 5 coaches all with a least UEFA A licenses.

Twas a a very  informative session.

[Flying Dutchman 765]

Rupp is a tough one for me. I've seen 4 of his games so far, couple in the stands, couple on a screen, he's maybe not quite 'there' yet.

But as Alex has been saying, here and on another thread, integrating into a new country, system, new coaches, management etc can require patience. Sometimes it all slots into place, sometimes it doesn't.

Football is riddled with examples of both - players either hitting the ground running, or needing bedding in. I see potential, I really do.

However, for the here and now, where we are and what we need, I cannot look past Emi starting on the right (subject to whatever may or may not be occurring behind the scenes).

Also, one thing that really stuck out to me in this thread: someone said it's not Rupp's fault he isn't Emi. Exactly right.

We must all remember last season during Emi's 3 match ban when Cantwell stepped in. He had an absolute mare, and most fans made no secret of that. Not good enough, needs to go out on loan etc. But he had been thrown in after mostly playing bit-parts around that time.

Different situation, but highlights that judging a player on a handful of games isn't always wise. And it didn't turn out too badly in the end though, did it?

If Rupp has it in him, I'm sure the coaching staff will get it out of him. Only time will tell.

But for now, for me, it's Emi all day long. He can be both frustrating and brilliant, we've seen both ends of that. But let's face it, he also strikes you as the kind of player who would use that passion, frustration and fire in his belly to really, really try and prove Farke wrong for not playing him.

And I'd love to see the results of that.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Flying Dutchman

[nutty nigel 7,870]

11 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

The old debate about watching the game live or watching it on TV I must admit has always interested me, Eddie. My personal experience is that they both really do have their benefits - exactly as you say, you can only see what the cameraman wants you to see, yet I don’t know how many times I’ve been at a game, and because of the seat that’s been allocated the players themselves at times can block the view of what’s happening. So I can sympathise with the ‘complete armchairs’ (though in fairness, that may not be through any fault of their own, we support how we wish to support 🙂). Yet by being at the game I suppose you could at least see Mark Bosnich off camera in the 23rd minute making a roll up for Paul McGrath, Jack Wilshere and David Ginola haha. I think stats can be interesting, as they were earlier when it showed that actually Grant Hanley has ‘statistically’ been a lot better than some are pig headedly refusing to concede because they’ve already decided and that’s it.
 

But make no mistake, there is no better way of judging a player for yourself than with your own eyes. And I feel those players should be given the respect of being allowed a decent amount of games, everyone should have the chance to ‘bed in’, especially those from other countries where the tactics, style and pace can be quite different. But then as you know, we shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone who’s been watching football for more than 3 months. I certainly wouldn’t use stats to tell me whether a player is good or not, I think that’s a bit weird buddy 😂. Eyes and time will tell you everything you need to know 👍🏼

I think as always you're a wise owl Alex🙃

Not sure if the stats will back this up but I think losing Byram is a massive blow. I've seen a lot of posters suggesting it's not because Jamal doesn't weaken the team. But I see Byram winning far more headers than Jamal ever will and we don't have many players who can do that. McLean is the only other I can think of apart from the centrebacks.

[king canary 8,644]

15 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

And an open mind. Once some people get an idea in their head ,nothing will change their opinion. 

I took part in an interesting  exercise once, 30 students on a coaching course were asked to evaluate  the same player,  that didnt know he was the object of the exercise. The post match assessments varied wildly. With the player receiving  Mark's from 4/10 to 8/10 and remarks varying from 'sloppy' to ' key playmaker '. Funnily enough, those that were more experienced and highly qualified agreed more in his performance. The purpose of the exercise was to teach the students( all adults) that what you think may not ,in fact be true, as the match was recorded and analyzed in the class room afterward  by a team of 5 coaches all with a least UEFA A licenses.

Twas a a very  informative session.

Can be very difficult to shake our biases.

A guy I sat in front of used to swear Malky was a donkey and that Hucks was too flashy with the ball.

I took against Marc Edworthy when I was about 15 and found it very difficult to admit he was actually a very solid fullback.

Equally, lots would swear blind Russell Martin was not the issue in our defence despite all evidence to the contrary.

Some folks value different things- the love Elliott Bennett got was always baffling to me as I saw a very limited player who people liked because he ran around a lot.

Some of the older generation can't shake off the idea of the 'chalk on your boots, get to the byline and cross' sort of winger and can't appreciate a player like Redmond who didn't really play like that.

[Alex Moss 2,167]

5 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

I think as always you're a wise owl Alex🙃

Not sure if the stats will back this up but I think losing Byram is a massive blow. I've seen a lot of posters suggesting it's not because Jamal doesn't weaken the team. But I see Byram winning far more headers than Jamal ever will and we don't have many players who can do that. McLean is the only other I can think of apart from the centrebacks.

Couldn’t agree more, Eddie. I think the loss of Byram is a bitter blow. Big fan of Jamal, and like Godfrey, I’m absolutely certain will be going places as their respective careers develop. But right in the here and now, the added nous and experience that Hanley and Byram have brought to us since breaking into the starting 11 has been quite noticeable. Bar the Man Utd result, as a defensive unit I feel we looked far more confident and assured at the back. No messing around, no nonsense. Byram’s all round game is stronger than I was expecting, Hanley looks a different player since the start of the season. As it happens, I actually saw Grant as our 4th choice CB at the start of the season and thought he got turned way too easily when facing a tricky attacker, he simply wasn’t mobile enough. But little did I know he was actually playing injured, a groin injury, yet we had little choice with Klose and Zimbo out for months respectively. Well, I’m not using his hidden injury as an excuse - I was completely wrong, simple as that, no wonder he was far less mobile whilst playing through the pain barrier! It takes 11 men to defend a game, and Grant I think all things considered has been a breath of fresh air since his return. The defence has certainly been better as a unit for the inclusion of a fit again Hanley, an absolute steal of a signing in Byram, and Zimbo playing well beyond his career as a school teacher - the reality is it’s the attack where we need a return to our signature swashbuckling form.