Guest Posted January 7, 2018 While I don''t think we should create a job for him as we don''t have the finance for that, I''m sure he will find a suitable job at the club eventually.I agree he about his treatment. When he joined us from Peterborough he got terrible stick as he replaced crowd favourite Spillane. But he added to the team solidity in League 1 immediately.And he has been the scapegoat on many other occasions as well. And of course he has been found out sometimes. But we were playing in the Prem for four of his years here so he wasn''t the only to go missing sometimes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Woodman 92 Posted January 8, 2018 Good luck to him if he does go. When I watched him in the pre-season game v Brighton, I thought how uncomfortable he looked with the new ''passing it around at the back'' style of play. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Essjayess 307 Posted January 8, 2018 [quote user="kingsway"]I personally disagree with Farkes treatment of Russell Martin since the Millwall debacle cause he was far from being our worst player that day.That said, though if Martins not going to feature now then for the sake of relieving the club of most or all of the surely highest earner Martins wages will beneficial!When Martin does go we will need another rightback cause that leaves Pinto as our only player in that position![/quote]Hence why we are in for young Ebuehi from Den Haag, only 22 and a Nigerian international. Nick Mashiter seemed certain we were after him and Nick is prolly the only journo reliable enough with his info that makes me think theres solidity behind it.With Russ seemingly resigned to leaving and with Wes likely to end his days at end of season, with the likes of Godfrey, Thomson, Adams etc. hopefully making their mark with us next season, is not just the change of personnel but the change in the average age of the squad that is so noticeable now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cornish sam 953 Posted January 8, 2018 [quote user="KiwiScot"]Who wants to see him given a last game before he goes?[/quote]The opposition (joke)(ish) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Apples 1,320 Posted January 9, 2018 Latest on Martin to Rangers...it appears they have to offload duds first (so may have some influence on getting Naismith too).http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/rangers-step-up-russell-martin-11818857Apples Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0 Posted January 9, 2018 Martin the replacement for a Portuguese international......I reckon Rangers fans might be a bit disappointed. Despite the obvious appeal, I don''t think Russ is doing himself any favours with this move. I think he might get some stick. A drop to league one or two, playing only as a centre back, is his best chance of prolonging his playing career, IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Apples 1,320 Posted January 9, 2018 Alves is 36, injury prone, a high earner and part of the old regime. They''ll probably be delighted as he could do a solid and decent job for them.Apples Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0 Posted January 9, 2018 [quote user="Mr Apples"]Alves is 36, injury prone, a high earner and part of the old regime. They''ll probably be delighted as he could do a solid and decent job for them.Apples [/quote]But he can''t do a solid and decent job for us.. why do you think he will for Rangers? And being the size of club as Rangers are, there will be huge pressure on him to do well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 9, 2018 Yeah, we''ve looked much more solid, and got better results overall when Martin hasn''t been in the team.Look at our league position; heady heights of 13th now! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0 Posted January 9, 2018 [quote user="Ian"]Yeah, we''ve looked much more solid, and got better results overall when Martin hasn''t been in the team.Look at our league position; heady heights of 13th now![/quote]Exactly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 9, 2018 Remind me when we were last lower or equal to 13th in the Championship, in January, during any of the seasons Martin was a mainstay in our defence? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Apples 1,320 Posted January 9, 2018 "But he can''t do a solid and decent job for us.. why do you think he will for Rangers? And being the size of club as Rangers are, there will be huge pressure on him to do well."He''ll be absolutely fine at Rangers and fine with any pressure. It''s funny how the quality of Scottish football varies with the argument being made?Apples Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0 Posted January 9, 2018 [quote user="Ian"]Remind me when we were last lower or equal to 13th in the Championship, in January, during any of the seasons Martin was a mainstay in our defence?[/quote]Pointless fact. Firstly, lots of different variables. Secondly, players age and their ability deteriorates. So comparing Martin now with Martin of the past is not comparing apples with apples. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0 Posted January 9, 2018 [quote user="Mr Apples"]"But he can''t do a solid and decent job for us.. why do you think he will for Rangers? And being the size of club as Rangers are, there will be huge pressure on him to do well."He''ll be absolutely fine at Rangers and fine with any pressure. It''s funny how the quality of Scottish football varies with the argument being made?Apples[/quote]We''ll see Apples. But I predict Rangers supporters being extremely underwhelmed with his signing, and even more so when he plays. Despite their recent issues, Rangers are a huge club and their fans, rightly or wrongly, are very expectant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Apples 1,320 Posted January 9, 2018 "So comparing Martin now with Martin of the past is not comparing apples with apples."And neither is comparing playing in the back four in the Championship vs. the Scottish Premiership (in one of the 3 strongest teams).Apples Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,606 Posted January 9, 2018 @IanBut we have looked much more solid without him in the team this season...He started 4 league games in which we conceded 12 goals (Millwall, Villa, Sunderland, Fulham).In the other 22 game we''ve conceded 19 goals in total. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 9, 2018 So, basically, you''re saying that Russell Martin of a few years ago was a better defender than Pinto is currently? Perhaps I''m doing you a disservice and you were more nuanced than that, but would you agree that a lot of people held Martin responsible for the vast majority of our defensive failings last season/beginning of this - and that actually the back four chosen has made little difference to our defensive frailties.He is still good enough to do a decent job in Scottish football. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0 Posted January 9, 2018 [quote user="Mr Apples"]"So comparing Martin now with Martin of the past is not comparing apples with apples."And neither is comparing playing in the back four in the Championship vs. the Scottish Premiership (in one of the 3 strongest teams).Apples[/quote]More so than you think. Many SPL players come and do well in the Championship. There are lots of examples to support this. But they don''t do so well in the EPL. Therefore it seems reasonable to assume the standard in the Championship is similar to that of the SPL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 9, 2018 That''s a fair point king canary, but I would argue it''s far more to do with the midfield screening that any individuals in the back four.Would be interested to know if Tettey/Trybull started in those 4 league games? And/or how the stats change if those two aren''t in the team... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0 Posted January 9, 2018 [quote user="Ian"]So, basically, you''re saying that Russell Martin of a few years ago was a better defender than Pinto is currently? Perhaps I''m doing you a disservice and you were more nuanced than that, but would you agree that a lot of people held Martin responsible for the vast majority of our defensive failings last season/beginning of this - and that actually the back four chosen has made little difference to our defensive frailties.He is still good enough to do a decent job in Scottish football.[/quote]No Ian, that''s not what I''m saying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 9, 2018 You think Pinto is a better defender than Russell Martin at his peak?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0 Posted January 9, 2018 [quote user="Ian"]That''s a fair point king canary, but I would argue it''s far more to do with the midfield screening that any individuals in the back four.Would be interested to know if Tettey/Trybull started in those 4 league games? And/or how the stats change if those two aren''t in the team...[/quote]Tettey and Trybull are the decisive factor. We''ve only conceded three goals and kept seven clean sheets in the ten games they''ve started together. Having said that, Pinto is much better than Martin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,606 Posted January 9, 2018 @IanBy that same argument, us being 13th probably is more to do with our lack of goals scored than not having Russell Martin in the team.IMO he''s not been great for the last couple of seasons and I thought he should have been dropped long before he was. He can probably still do a job at Rangers though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0 Posted January 9, 2018 [quote user="Ian"]You think Pinto is a better defender than Russell Martin at his peak?![/quote]Yes, at full back position. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Apples 1,320 Posted January 9, 2018 "He is still good enough to do a decent job in Scottish football."Completely agree with that. Just look at Christophe Berra (for direct comparison), Lafferty, Mulumbu...Apples Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 9, 2018 Well, I don''t think there''s any doubt he''s had his best years for the club now (from a playing perspective anyway), and I imagine his illness has been a significant factor.My main argument is that I don''t believe he has been anyway near as big a factor in our decline as some "fans" like to make out - certainly, a lot of our back four make poor individual mistakes (look at Klose repeatedly when dealing with any sort of physical player), but seem to be absolved from responsibility by those same fans.Anyway, I think he will be a decent player in the Scottish Prem, and I very much hope he comes back to the club in a coaching/managerial role. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 9, 2018 That''s interesting; I could see the argument for Pinto being a more suitable wingback than Martin; excellent going forward, and a lot of good physical attributes. As a full-back I think Martin was superior defensively.I also think Martin was actually pretty decent going forward, and contributed fairly well in terms of goals for a defensive player.Anyway, football is all about opinions isn''t it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray 111 Posted January 9, 2018 I agree Ian, from memory we went to two holding midfielders after the Millwall game and I think you may find the reason RM was dropped, and has not featured at all since, has nothing to do with his ability, more to do with our Coach''s inability to handle certain situations, both he and Naismith disappeared at the same time and besides both playing for Scotland they have other similar traits. Both are good leaders, both are of a certain age and both are well respected and looked up to by the other players, just my opinion of course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,606 Posted January 9, 2018 ''Both are good leaders, both are of a certain age and both are well respected and looked up to by the other players...''Both not played very well in a while... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 9, 2018 I think there may well be something in that Ray, with the recent rumours floating about.I also find it really strange that he was commentating with Chris Goreham on the cup match; I can''t remember any active squad member doing that in the past? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites