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super dave

Russell Martin

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king canary,

That may or not be the case, a matter of opinion I guess, but RM is a better player than Franke and probably Husband, yet we went into games with just one defender on the bench and it was one of those two, when RM was perfectly fit?

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[quote user="Mr Apples"]"He is still good enough to do a decent job in Scottish football."Completely agree with that. Just look at Christophe Berra (for direct comparison), Lafferty, Mulumbu...Apples[/quote]

So comparing the standard of the Championship and SPL is relevant?

Make your mind up Apples.

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Also, Ray - given our lack of goals, lack of forward options, and frankly atrocious recent performances from Oliveira, why is Naismith not even in the squad for a cup game?

Is he injured?

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[quote user="Ray"]I agree Ian, from memory we went to two holding midfielders after the Millwall game and I think you may find the reason RM was dropped, and has not featured at all since, has nothing to do with his ability, more to do with our Coach''s inability to handle certain situations, both he and Naismith disappeared at the same time and besides both playing for Scotland they have other similar traits. Both are good leaders, both are of a certain age and both are well respected and looked up to by the other players, just my opinion of course.[/quote]

Maybe it''s more to do with their age than anything.  Younger players are bound to be more adept at adapting - and the future is in the younger players.   And maybe both made it clear they wanted to play more and Farke couldn''t give them that guarantee - which is fair enough.  All if''s and maybe''s, but it''s not difficult to see why both are not featuring anymore and will be off somewhere else.  McWildschut too.......[;)]  

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In all honesty I''ve never been a huge fan of Martin as a central defender. His positional play is questionable and for a captain he isn''t very good at keeping the defense organised.

However when he was younger his pace (relative to most central defenders) bailed him out of some situations, allowing him to get back and make covering blocks and tackles to make up for being in a poor position to begin with. As he''s gotten older he''s gotten slower which is exposes his positioning more. Equally he''s now too slow to really play right back as if he attacks it takes far too long for him to get back.

He became somewhat symbolic of our defensive issues in that he seemed undroppable no matter what was going on around him. Our decent defensive run in the Premier League came when Klose got to play next to Bennett (who benefited massively from having someone like Klose to help organise him).

At his height he was an excellent fullback with good attacking instincts to go with his defensive solidity. However he shouldn''t have been more than a squad player for the last two and a half seasons in my opinion.

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@Ray

If you want to claim either Naismith or Martin have played well in the last 6-12 months then more power to you. Tough case to make though.

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king canary,

"Our decent defensive run in the Premier League came when Klose got to play next to Bennett (who benefited massively from having someone like Klose to help organise him)."

In reply may I refer to my post of just over one year ago, although I do take the point re age slowing us all down.

CB Pairings

Whilst I accept there are a host of reasons for our current demise, I think what follows re our CB’s and the pairings is quite telling;

TK – Played 15, Won 8, Drew 3, Lost 4 – Points gained/game 1.8, on target for 83 for the season,

RB - Played 12, Won 3, Drew 2, Lost 7 – Points gained/game 0.9, on target for 42 for the season,

RM – Played 8, Won 6, Drew 1, Lost 1 – Points gained/game 2.4, on target for 109 for the season,

SB – Played 5, Won 1, Drew 0, Lost 4 – Points gained/game 0.6, on target for 28 for the season.

The Pairings as follows;

TK & RB x 8 – Points gained/game 1.0, on target for 46 for the season

TK & RM x 7 – Points gained/game 2.7, on target for 125 for the season

RM & SB x 1 – Points gained/game 0, on target for 0 for the season (this was Newcastle away, where we went 3 at the back with RB before conceding losing goals)

SB & RB x 4 – Points gained/game 0.3, on target for 35 for the season

I assume, and please let me be correct in this assumption, that AN is aware of these stats. There is such a huge difference between the Klose, Martin partnership than any other, why, of why, are these two on the bench.

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Instead of arguing about the merits of Russell Martin for page after page, can’t we all agree he’s been a fantastic servant for NCFC and has been a key player in all our memorable moments of the last 8 or 9 years.

He clearly loves the club and area, and I for one would love him involved at the club in the future.

He’s also been battling a chronic illness for years, which would be a problem for many, let alone a professional footballer.

A great ambassador for the club and a credit to Norwich City. Good luck to him on his next move.

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"So comparing the standard of the Championship and SPL is relevant."I think the error you''re making is equating the standards of the two leagues; in comparison the Championship level is generally higher than the SPL.Apples

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HHS,

Not sure we are arguing, debating yes, and this thread is entitled Russell Martin after all. I also included an insight (if you can call it that) as to why he hasn''t been part of the match day squad, which in itself is possibly more revealing.

However, I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of your sentiments. Well said Sir.

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Hi Lincoln,

See this link.

Cheers

https://www.crohnsandcolitis.org.uk/about-us/ambassadors/russell-martin

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"I also included an insight (if you can call it that) as to why he hasn''t been part of the match day squad, which in itself is possibly more revealing."

Come on then Ray, spill the beans...!

So, is he:

a) upset at not being picked?

b) not giving his all in training, therefore not demonstrating why he should be picked?

c) is he injured?

d) is he not good enough?

e) unhappy at double training sessions to get a fitter squad?

f) is he a senior player, earning big money, who doesn''t suit the new playing style of the club and the way its changing?

g) does he, alongside Naismith, think he''s better than some of the players in the team/squad?

For the record, I think he''s been a terrific club servant, but we currently have better players in his position.

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Hi Woodman,

None of the above.

For the time being I refer you to my earlier post, which was,;

"It has nothing to do with his ability, more to do with our Coach''s inability to handle certain situations, both he and Naismith disappeared at the same time and besides both playing for Scotland they have other similar traits. Both are good leaders, both are of a certain age and both are well respected and looked up to by the other players."

Although I will add that RM is qualified to manage in the Championship and will, I''m as sure as I can be, go on to be a successful manager, I will also add he is the ultimate professional and would do nothing (and has done nothing) to undermine any coaching staff.

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Thanks Ray - I didn''t know he was qualified to manage already.

There are always going to be players who are unhappy at not playing. Whether they agree with them or not, its important that they don''t undermine the overall direction that the Coach and his team are trying to take us. I accept what you''ve said about him being an ultimate pro. I think we suffered that enough last year with the prima donnas who allegedly fell out with AN.

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Ray,

I feel you are implying that DF has frozen out Martin and Naismith based on their stance on some issue within the team hierarchy and as a way of stamping his authority on a situation. Is that in the ballpark? Allegedly of course!

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GV,

Close but no cigar, nothing to do with what stance RM (nor I believe SN) have done, more on what others did.

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FFS Fenway, how many times have you got to be told, it''s Colman''s, best joke I could muster''d!

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The simple truth of the matter is Martin should have gone three seasons ago, our defence with him at the helm since promotion at Wembley has been awful, a downward spiral since the day we walked away triumphant from Wembley Way. Lovely fella though....

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Footballinsider.com rated Russ 7/10 in his debut with the following words;

"Scotland international was handed his Ibrox debut against Derek McInnes’ side and almost set Josh Windass up for an early opening goal."

"Centre-back looked comfortable and seemed to have adapted quickly to his new surroundings and team-mates."

"Martin was in control against the Dons’ forwards beside David Bates in an impressive debut for the 32-year-old."

"Almost certain to be a regular between now and the end of the season."

"Impressive debut from the former Norwich captain and should prove to be a good signing by Murty."

Good to see, after all he has been put through and glad to see him get minutes on the pitch, because all said and done he is still one of ours and who knows may have a role to play next season.

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