canary cherub

[quote user="NorwichRat"] Delia is the only person that HAS put in big money to theis club in recent years. NO ONE ELSE has. [/quote] Not for the want of trying tho  

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="cityangel"] If they have a footballing clue how do you explain their appointments of Grant, Gunn and Roeder ?   [/quote] Where did footballing clue suddenly come from? I thought we were talking about owning the club rather than running the club. [/quote] So what exactly is the difference between owning the club and running the club nutty?  When you think about it, it''s not as simple as it seems. Do you mean the difference between owners and employees ie. the latter can be sacked but the former can''t? Or that the owners take the big decisions and the employees the lesser ones? The amount of day to day involvement in the running of the club is irrelevant.  It varies so much from one owner to another that it''s impossible to generalise.  

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="canary cherub "]Looks like I''ve opened a can of worms at the very least, if not hit the nail right on the head.  Odd that no one had thought of it before.  Did the Turners advise that Doomcaster be replaced, and were they overruled?  The whole thing was certainly very odd.  I think we should be told, confidentiality clause or not.   [/quote] It''s been suggested before on here. Along with countless other theories.   [/quote] That''s the trouble with confidentiality clauses isn''t it.  Tell the truth and shame the devil, that''s what I say.  

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="canary cherub "][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="canary cherub "][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="canary cherub "] [quote user="nutty nigel"] The Turners were supposed to be monitoring the CE. Does anyone remember that?  At the time Roeder was being cleverer than the rest The Turners were said to be hands on while Delia went to work. And when The Turners baled Delia needed to earn even more money. [/quote] We don''t know why the Turners bailed out though do we?  They left their money behind so that wasn''t the reason.  After monitoring the CE, did they recommend that he be replaced? - it was obvious to many of us, so maybe it was obvious to them too.  Maybe other members of the board didn''t agree?  But given that we don''t know and probably never will, I don''t see how you can drag them into the discussion to make excuses for Delia.   [/quote] Who''s making excuses for Delia Cherub? I took a question to Delia and she answered it. I don''t many of you understand the question let alone the answer. If you want to know those things about The Turners why didn''t you ask her?   [/quote] Weren''t we told that there was a confidentiality clause?   Even Roger Munby "didn''t know" or so he said . . . [;)]   [/quote] The point I was making was that Delia went back to work. There was no confidentiality clause about that was there? Do you think that it''s possible to do all that tv work and book writing whilst meddling in the football club and insisting that we waste the football budget until we are evetually relegated? Why didn''t you answer my point about prudence? The part that you originally brought up?   [/quote] That''s what you should be asking Delia isn''t it nutty?  Your email was, I assume, about "prudence with ambition" in relation to how the club is run.  Her reply was about prudence with ambition in relation to their own investment.  So she didn''t actually answer your question.  Clever old Delia, she really is brilliant at it.  Had me fooled. Bet you wish you''d never brought up the Turners.  Looks like I''ve opened a can of worms at the very least, if not hit the nail right on the head.  Odd that no one had thought of it before.  Did the Turners advise that Doomcaster be replaced, and were they overruled?  The whole thing was certainly very odd.  I think we should be told, confidentiality clause or not.   [/quote] No, my email was made from comments on here. They were comments posters had made about Delia as owner of the club and not about how the club was run. Why would I wish I never brought the Turners up? If you think we should be told why don''t you ask. I''m not going to do it for you[;)]   [/quote] Show me a single post that talks about "prudence with ambition" in relation to D&M''s own investment rather than the running of the club.  

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="canary cherub "][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="canary cherub "] [quote user="nutty nigel"] The Turners were supposed to be monitoring the CE. Does anyone remember that?  At the time Roeder was being cleverer than the rest The Turners were said to be hands on while Delia went to work. And when The Turners baled Delia needed to earn even more money. [/quote] We don''t know why the Turners bailed out though do we?  They left their money behind so that wasn''t the reason.  After monitoring the CE, did they recommend that he be replaced? - it was obvious to many of us, so maybe it was obvious to them too.  Maybe other members of the board didn''t agree?  But given that we don''t know and probably never will, I don''t see how you can drag them into the discussion to make excuses for Delia.   [/quote] Who''s making excuses for Delia Cherub? I took a question to Delia and she answered it. I don''t many of you understand the question let alone the answer. If you want to know those things about The Turners why didn''t you ask her?   [/quote] Weren''t we told that there was a confidentiality clause?   Even Roger Munby "didn''t know" or so he said . . . [;)]   [/quote] The point I was making was that Delia went back to work. There was no confidentiality clause about that was there? Do you think that it''s possible to do all that tv work and book writing whilst meddling in the football club and insisting that we waste the football budget until we are evetually relegated? Why didn''t you answer my point about prudence? The part that you originally brought up?   [/quote] That''s what you should be asking Delia isn''t it nutty?  Your email was, I assume, about "prudence with ambition" in relation to how the club is run.  Her reply was about prudence with ambition in relation to their own investment.  So she didn''t actually answer your question.  Clever old Delia, she really is brilliant at it.  Had me fooled. Bet you wish you''d never brought up the Turners.  Looks like I''ve opened a can of worms at the very least, if not hit the nail right on the head.  Odd that no one had thought of it before.  Did the Turners advise that Doomcaster be replaced, and were they overruled?  The whole thing was certainly very odd.  I think we should be told, confidentiality clause or not.  

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="canary cherub "] [quote user="nutty nigel"] The Turners were supposed to be monitoring the CE. Does anyone remember that?  At the time Roeder was being cleverer than the rest The Turners were said to be hands on while Delia went to work. And when The Turners baled Delia needed to earn even more money. [/quote] We don''t know why the Turners bailed out though do we?  They left their money behind so that wasn''t the reason.  After monitoring the CE, did they recommend that he be replaced? - it was obvious to many of us, so maybe it was obvious to them too.  Maybe other members of the board didn''t agree?  But given that we don''t know and probably never will, I don''t see how you can drag them into the discussion to make excuses for Delia.   [/quote] Who''s making excuses for Delia Cherub? I took a question to Delia and she answered it. I don''t many of you understand the question let alone the answer. If you want to know those things about The Turners why didn''t you ask her?   [/quote] Weren''t we told that there was a confidentiality clause?   Even Roger Munby "didn''t know" or so he said . . . [;)]  

[quote user="nutty nigel"] The Turners were supposed to be monitoring the CE. Does anyone remember that?  At the time Roeder was being cleverer than the rest The Turners were said to be hands on while Delia went to work. And when The Turners baled Delia needed to earn even more money. [/quote] We don''t know why the Turners bailed out though do we?  They left their money behind so that wasn''t the reason.  After monitoring the CE, did they recommend that he be replaced? - it was obvious to many of us, so maybe it was obvious to them too.  Maybe other members of the board didn''t agree?  But given that we don''t know and probably never will, I don''t see how you can drag them into the discussion to make excuses for Delia.  

[quote user="morty"][quote user="canary cherub "] [quote user="morty"] I don''t think she was in denial, I just think she took poor advice. I think a very salient point here though is she is one of a board of directors that were all culpable, I mean why aren''t we all demonising MWJ? I just think that a lot of people love to subscribe to the conspiracy theory that she stomps round the boardroom like some sort of dictator, smashing her fists on the table as she bellows orders. [/quote] I don''t think it''s any secret that Delia can be VERY difficult if crossed.  We aren''t demonising MWJ just as we aren''t demonising Delia either, most of us.  Why can''t you understand that?   [/quote] Are you seriously saying a lot of  people aren''t fixating and demonising her in relation to recent poor decisions made by the board? Who isn''t difficult when they are crossed? At the end of the day can a fan of a football club always make decisions with their head, as opposed to their heart? [/quote] Yes I am.  One or two maybe, but they''re a small minority. Not everyone throws a tantrum when they can''t get their own way, believe it or not. You can''t excuse bad decision making by saying "she''s a fan" as if that makes everything all right, but that''s not the issue here in any case.  In my view the problem lies in Delia''s inability to make a distinction between her own interests, wishes and desire and those of the club.  

[quote user="morty"] I don''t think she was in denial, I just think she took poor advice. I think a very salient point here though is she is one of a board of directors that were all culpable, I mean why aren''t we all demonising MWJ? I just think that a lot of people love to subscribe to the conspiracy theory that she stomps round the boardroom like some sort of dictator, smashing her fists on the table as she bellows orders. [/quote] I don''t think it''s any secret that Delia can be VERY difficult if crossed.  We aren''t demonising MWJ just as we aren''t demonising Delia either, most of us.  Why can''t you understand that?  

[quote user="morty"][quote user="canary cherub "][quote user="morty"][quote user="canary cherub "][quote user="morty"][quote user="canary cherub "] [quote user="morty"]I am a fan of Delia and all she has done, but there is no denying she made colossal mistakes, which she herself will hold her hands up to. Her, and her board''s actions got us where we are today, yes we have had a good season but only time will tell if this is a genuine turn around in the club''s fortunes or just Norwich city over achieving in a poor league. [/quote] Hell will freeze over first.  She has never taken an ounce of responsibility for any of the mistakes.  For example, look at her reply to nutty''s email: "just for the record, prudence with ambition was never a policy of mine or Michael''s".  Either it''s weasel words, ie. although they didn''t actually come up with the policy themselves they did agree with it, or for over a decade they let Doomcaster adopt a policy they didn''t agree with. Suddenly, now that things are looking up, it''s all down to Delia . . . will people never wake up???   [/quote] Or will you ever let go of your bitterness for mistakes made in the past and look to the future? Sorry but who said that Delia has single handedly turned this around? [/quote] Your cheap personal jibe misses the point completely. The point I was trying to make is that there is precious little evidence to show that the mistakes of the past have been acknowledged, let alone lessons learned.    [/quote] Which bit of what I said was a "cheap personal jibe" exactly? [/quote] You ignored a perfectly valid point of view, backed up with evidence, dismissing it as "bitterness".  In other posts you''ve repeatedly dismissed people who are, let''s say, "Delia-sceptics" as being motivated by some sort of personal grudge.  Perhaps it''s you that''s bitter because those who predicted the club''s decline were proved right, sadly.  Pot/kettle eh?   [/quote] Evidence? She isn''t perfect but I would take her over most majority shareholders in football. Yes, you do sound very bitter to be honest. So, when does it stop, when she leaves the club and takes her money with her, or when we reach the Premiership? I''m bitter only at the demise of our club, I think it didn''t really take a genius to predict what happened, and if people take glory in saying "I told you so" about it all then that say something very telling about them. She knows she has cocked things up, and this is shown in how much McNally now runs the show. Seriously, what more do you want from her? [/quote] I couldn''t agree more.  Makes you wonder how so many could be in denial for so long doesn''t it?  I''m not sure if Delia does know she''s cocked it up, that''s precisely the problem.  She realises that the club is in such deep financial trouble that she could potentially lose the lot, but I haven''t heard anything to suggest that she accepts any responsibility for the situation. It''s not a case of wanting more from Delia but of accepting Delia as she is, warts and all.  Given that the future of our club lies in her hands, I''d like to think that she will one day start acting like a grown-up, but I''m not very confident I have to say.   

[quote user="morty"][quote user="canary cherub "][quote user="morty"][quote user="canary cherub "] [quote user="morty"]I am a fan of Delia and all she has done, but there is no denying she made colossal mistakes, which she herself will hold her hands up to. Her, and her board''s actions got us where we are today, yes we have had a good season but only time will tell if this is a genuine turn around in the club''s fortunes or just Norwich city over achieving in a poor league. [/quote] Hell will freeze over first.  She has never taken an ounce of responsibility for any of the mistakes.  For example, look at her reply to nutty''s email: "just for the record, prudence with ambition was never a policy of mine or Michael''s".  Either it''s weasel words, ie. although they didn''t actually come up with the policy themselves they did agree with it, or for over a decade they let Doomcaster adopt a policy they didn''t agree with. Suddenly, now that things are looking up, it''s all down to Delia . . . will people never wake up???   [/quote] Or will you ever let go of your bitterness for mistakes made in the past and look to the future? Sorry but who said that Delia has single handedly turned this around? [/quote] Your cheap personal jibe misses the point completely. The point I was trying to make is that there is precious little evidence to show that the mistakes of the past have been acknowledged, let alone lessons learned.    [/quote] Which bit of what I said was a "cheap personal jibe" exactly? [/quote] You ignored a perfectly valid point of view, backed up with evidence, dismissing it as "bitterness".  In other posts you''ve repeatedly dismissed people who are, let''s say, "Delia-sceptics" as being motivated by some sort of personal grudge.  Perhaps it''s you that''s bitter because those who predicted the club''s decline were proved right, sadly.  Pot/kettle eh?  

[quote user="morty"][quote user="canary cherub "] [quote user="morty"]I am a fan of Delia and all she has done, but there is no denying she made colossal mistakes, which she herself will hold her hands up to. Her, and her board''s actions got us where we are today, yes we have had a good season but only time will tell if this is a genuine turn around in the club''s fortunes or just Norwich city over achieving in a poor league. [/quote] Hell will freeze over first.  She has never taken an ounce of responsibility for any of the mistakes.  For example, look at her reply to nutty''s email: "just for the record, prudence with ambition was never a policy of mine or Michael''s".  Either it''s weasel words, ie. although they didn''t actually come up with the policy themselves they did agree with it, or for over a decade they let Doomcaster adopt a policy they didn''t agree with. Suddenly, now that things are looking up, it''s all down to Delia . . . will people never wake up???   [/quote] Or will you ever let go of your bitterness for mistakes made in the past and look to the future? Sorry but who said that Delia has single handedly turned this around? [/quote] Your cheap personal jibe misses the point completely. The point I was trying to make is that there is precious little evidence to show that the mistakes of the past have been acknowledged, let alone lessons learned.   

[quote user="morty"]I am a fan of Delia and all she has done, but there is no denying she made colossal mistakes, which she herself will hold her hands up to. Her, and her board''s actions got us where we are today, yes we have had a good season but only time will tell if this is a genuine turn around in the club''s fortunes or just Norwich city over achieving in a poor league. [/quote] Hell will freeze over first.  She has never taken an ounce of responsibility for any of the mistakes.  For example, look at her reply to nutty''s email: "just for the record, prudence with ambition was never a policy of mine or Michael''s".  Either it''s weasel words, ie. although they didn''t actually come up with the policy themselves they did agree with it, or for over a decade they let Doomcaster adopt a policy they didn''t agree with. Suddenly, now that things are looking up, it''s all down to Delia . . . will people never wake up???  

[quote user="YankeeCanary"] "---  That''s exactly it for me. I haven''t heard any Norwich fans moaning that they don''t deserve to be down in this division, they''ve just got on with it and put all their energy into going back up."   Oh, how so many of you read what you want to read and ignore the erroneous part. The Huddersfield observer obviously has not spent much time on this forum. [/quote] You are mistaken Yankee.  Many fans believe that it was avoidable, that it need never have happened if the club had been properly run, but that''s not the same as believing we didn''t deserve it.  The table doesn''t lie.  Clearly we DID deserve it, for whatever reason.  

[quote user="Superflash"]That''s mental. David James hit the nail on the head recently when he said winning the FA cup did way more harm than good to the club. Redknapp''s departure and the luring of Pompey''s biggest players just left them further in the brown stuff. [/quote] Also, winning the FA Cup triggered ginormous bonuses for the players that the club never imagined they''d have to pay.  

Off to Portugal again this week Benfica  v  Olhanense  (home win) best of luck one and all  [*] nutty I''m not what you would call a "sociable pup" but hope the meet goes well, whenever it is [Y]  

[quote user="Gaz Milno"]Surely the points deduction would carry on to next season like what happened at Southampton? [/quote] Yes I think that''s right. Pretty unlikely imo, although the argument that "it''s never happened before" doesn''t really stack up - there''s a first time for everything.  

What makes our bounceback really notable is not so much the achievement itself, but the turnaround from the utterly shambolic mess we started from.  Otherwise it''s just an everyday story of footballing folk - teams go up, teams come down, that''s what football is all about.  When you go up you celebrate - are we so pathetic that we need the Council to organise our celebration for us? A civic reception should be reserved for something really out of the ordinary, otherwise it gets devalued.  

[quote user="canary cherub "] [quote user="morty"]I can see both points of view on this and am still undecided really. Put into the context of how we have slumped since we got relegated from the Prem, this is a massive achievement. Will the rest of the country when they see Norwich fans turning out in their thousands to celebrate look at us in a patronising manner and say "Awwwww, bless them getting all excited about winning a tinpot league" Quite probably. But that is the attitude of the rest of the country to our club, and also to Norfolk. I bet the Leeds fans would swap with us like a shot, and I bet they''d celebrate like theres no tomorrow. [/quote] I have mixed feelings too.  It''s not the same as getting to the Premiership that''s for sure, but it''s still a notable achievement. Correct me if I''m wrong, but I can''t remember a civic reception or open top bus in 1975, 1981 or 1985 when we bounced back at the first attempt after relegation.  On that basis I''m not sure if it''s warranted this time either. [/quote] Meant to add:  A helluva party on the last day against Carlisle seems more appropriate to me.  

[quote user="morty"]I can see both points of view on this and am still undecided really. Put into the context of how we have slumped since we got relegated from the Prem, this is a massive achievement. Will the rest of the country when they see Norwich fans turning out in their thousands to celebrate look at us in a patronising manner and say "Awwwww, bless them getting all excited about winning a tinpot league" Quite probably. But that is the attitude of the rest of the country to our club, and also to Norfolk. I bet the Leeds fans would swap with us like a shot, and I bet they''d celebrate like theres no tomorrow. [/quote] I have mixed feelings too.  It''s not the same as getting to the Premiership that''s for sure, but it''s still a notable achievement. Correct me if I''m wrong, but I can''t remember a civic reception or open top bus in 1975, 1981 or 1985 when we bounced back at the first attempt after relegation.  On that basis I''m not sure if it''s warranted this time either.  

Latest report from Iceland is that the amount of ash is decreasing and it''s turning into an ordinary eruption with lava, which won''t affect flights.  It seems the ash is caused by the volcano erupting through an icecap, which has mostly melted now  [8-|]  

[quote user="lappinitup"] [quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]May be you should join us in our positive thoughts instead of moaning.[/quote]Unbelievable! You never cease to amaze me Tangy! You''ve not stopped moaning since you joined this board. Even your username is a complaint about expediture! Jeez! One of your whinges today is about whether Lambert will have money to spend in the summer. Well, here''s a challenge for you! As one of the NCISA commitee who recommended that supporters deprive the club of income by claiming their rebates, why don''t you become pro-active instead and raise some funds for the club? I know your father raised large amounts in the past so who better to help our club at this time of need? The rebates reportedly cost the club over £1m but I feel sure that you with your financial expertise and contacts would be able to raise a similar amount in no time. What do you reckon Tangy? I feel sure it would be more rewarding than whinging on here.   [/quote] Two-thirds of season ticket holders claimed their rebate, and it sent out a message to the board that even they couldn''t ignore.  It was instrumental in leading to changes in the boardroom and subsequently the arrival of Paul Lambert.  Worth every single penny.  

5

Paulton Rovers for me  

[quote user="crafty canary"]Let''s just hope that the return to the Championship doesn''t encourage the Stowmarket 2 to think they should interfere again. Leave to people who have some idea of what they are doing and enjoy the kudos of ownership. [/quote] That''s what worries me.  Nothing has happened to persuade me that anything fundamental will change now that we''re back in the Championship.  The imminent threat of administration is the only thing that''s concentrated their minds on football in the past 9 months or so, since promotion was key to financial survival.  Delia has made no secret of the fact that she''s rather enjoyed League 1 - "I''d rather go to [insert name of struggling League 1 club here] than Chelsea".  Of course she would, being a big fish in a small pond is a breeze.  I can find no evidence to suggest that lessons have been learned, and provided we can survive financially, I fear another decade of underachievement.  Major new investment will NOT happen, and not just because of the economic situation either.