Indy_Bones

How about stay at home and instead of trying to motivate the club into having a good season, you sit and wallow in old Sutton memorabilia singing songs about the good ole'' days, and how all this used to be fields...Hang on, it still is... I guess it''s easier to harp on about the ''glory days'' instead of getting stuck in and supporting the current team, so that they might have an f''ing chance of getting back to them. God I''m sick of hearing this Sutton rubbish.

[quote user="Chris Meadows"]thorne has barely/never played in the premiership whereas Sutton has for most of his carear[/quote] And your point is? We are not talking about playing Premiership football, and even if we were, since leaving Blackburn Sutton''s premiership record is abysmal. 1 in 28 for Chelsea, followed by 1 in 11 for Birmingham, hardly inspires me with confidence. Thorne (aside from last season) is a proven goalscorer at this level, and he proved it in a Cardiff team which was hardly setting the world alight, their best 2 players at the time were arguably him and Earnie, and without them they''d have got stuffed far worse than they did.

We''ve had endless posts these last 2 weeks on why we should/n''t sign Sutton, but then I had a thought... Interestingly enough if you do a player comparison between Sutton and Thorne, you''ll see that on paper, they have almost the same record performance wise. Thorne has averaged 0.35 goals per game, to Sutton''s 0.37 Both had a pretty poor last season mainly caused by injuries. Both are a similar height (Sutton edges this by 3" at 6ft3 compared to Thorne''s 6ft) As for Age, Thorne was born 21/06/1973 compared to Sutton 10/03/1973, so Thorne is actually 3 months younger... Also, Thorne has previously played with Earnie before during their time at Cardiff and they formed a pretty awesome (At this level anyway) strike team. Personally, I''d like to see the guy given a chance if we insist on playing a target man. He''s scored in pre-season and accordingly to reports, looks like he''s getting back to the sort of sharpness he showed at Cardiff. You can also add in the fact that he won''t cost us any extra wages, and if after a number of games, he''s still not "cuttting the mustard", we can give someone like Jarvo or McVeigh a chance. Thoughts?

It''s all WNAM seems to do on these boards (Took me less than a week to notice) Endlessley criticises every aspect of the club from Board, to Manager, to Players, and even to new signings with insulting comments about their body mass. Sorry but this is not only pretty pathetic from a need of having to really insult the players, but completely negative and certainly not indicative of a supporter who wants the club to do well. I appreciate many fans want Worthy Out, fair enough, they''re entitled to voice their opinions on this, but to simply respond to almost every post, regardless of content, in order to simply post negative comments is going too far, for god''s sake give some real support to the CLUB. And please give new signings a fair chance in our colours before totally slating them for no apparent reason.

Why does everyone keep going on about this? Especially seeing as how most are missing the key fact - Our main 2 strikers are Earnie & Leon. Thorne is a sub at best, so why make out that he''s the first name on the team sheet? Sutton is past it, and would only encourage us to play endless long balls towards him. Keep up the firm stance Worthy and leave Sutton well alone.

All, I''m personally very happy with the signing of Lee Croft, but i''ve seen that a number of others seem to have doubts about his ability, so i''ve found a few items from match reports etc about his performances for MC when he has played (This is from 5 mins of surfing so not hard to find): From Man City vs Aston Villa (MC win 3-1) "City dominated the first half with Stephen Ireland and Lee Croft, who started his first game for the Blues, seeing plenty of action. Croft in particular gave the hapless Jlloyd Samuel such a torrid time he was substituted at the break." From the FA.com "Understandably Dick sticks to pretty much the same squad but makes a significant addition in the form of Manchester City''s outstanding young prospect Lee Croft. Lee has already helped to guide Stuart Baxter''s Under-19 side through to the next stage of their European Championship qualification campaign". From Man City vs Everton (MC win 2-0) "Joey Barton again led from the front, and Lee Croft’s introduction on 63 minutes gave the side fresh impetus, a ringing endorsement of the work being put in by the academy staff." From MC Reservers vs Wigan Reserves (MC win 3-2) "Five minutes later Lee Croft saw a great solo effort when he beat three defenders to edge his way into the box, but Croll pulled of a fine save to deny Lee" I could keep looking through and bringing more and more info up, but it seems to me that Worthy has played a blinder in getting him to sign and he''s exactly the sort of player we need, he''s got the desire, having left MC to try to guarantee a first team place and assuming injuries stay away, he could be a key player this year. So let''s give him a bit of support eh? Indy

Couldn''t agree more tbh. I''ve only been on the boards a week, and i''m genuinely apalled at the attitude and comments being made by so-called ''fans'' of the club. We moan about not having a winger for 2 years, then when Worthy signs a good young prospect who has performed at U20 level for England, we get childish name calling. No offence, but WTF is wrong with some of you? I appreciate this is a forum to air views and concerns, but there really should be no place for this sort of thing. God, if I was a player looking to go to a club and I saw posts like this about me potentially signing for someone, i''d be tempted to tell the club where to stick it (unless it was a fantastic opportunity obviously). There''s a famous saying, "If you ain''t got anything nice to say, don''t say anything at all", maybe some posters should consider this before they add their next set of replies. If you are reading these posts Crofty, ignore the fools and just get on with playing like some of us know you are capable of. A very big welcome to the club :)

Please NO... The last thing the club needs is Thatcher and his associated ''baggage''. He''s completely unable to play a season without being sent off or endlessly booked, his tackling is questionable as is his dedication, and if he can''t get on with someone like Pearce who so far has been a breath of fresh air at MC, then we have to ask who he would get on with. Steer well clear Worthy.

Jim, The risk you don''t see as existing, IMHO is more to do with our style of play, than purely about whether or not Sutton is still good enough to command a place at the club. If we encourage Worthy to go in for someone like Sutton, we are in essence stating that we want the team to play long ball football by aiming for the new target man, in the hope that he''ll nod it down for Earnie et al to put in the back of the net. Let''s be frank, if I was a defender, i''d be much more concerned about the likes of Hucks and McVeigh running at me with the ball, than I would of Sutton (Or similar player) loping around upfront looking for endless long balls from the back four. Most fans complained about our style of play last year, moaning about ''hoofball'' etc, now we''re advocating this strategy by banging on about signing an ageing ''Target Man''. Is it really just me that can see that we need to ditch the whole idea of of aiming for a target man, and getting back to playing the sort of free-flowing, passing football, that this club was traditionally known for? We''ve got the exact type of players to do it. Hucks, Croft, McVeigh, Earnie, Leon - all quick, skillful players who are better at running at people, or running onto balls than they are competing in the air, so play it to their feet! Shame we can''t get Mohammed Zidan in as well, that would really frighten defences...

[quote user="We need a Manager"]In the long run getting beat untill Worthington is sacked is by far the best thing for the club.[/quote] Absolute nonsense. Since Worthy was appointed we have steadily performed. When he took over we went from finishing 15th to 6th the season after, losing to Brum in the playoff final. The season after that disappointment, we finished 8th, which in fairness did need to be better, but we were only 5 points behind the playoff places, so hardly a disaster. We then won the Championship in what was arguably the most convincing fashion seen in over a decade. Staying up was always going to be a problem, but I at least respected Worthy''s desire to try to pass the ball around, even against huge opponents such as Chelsea and Arsenal, in fact considering we beat Man Utd 2-0, only just losing the first game despite being the better team, i don''t think he had too bad a run at it, and clearly Worthy saw where we needed a big improvement, and signed Ashton, a great player who no other Prem manager was willing to give a chance to, now he''s being touted around everywhere. Last season was the worst i''ve seen in ages, and some of that has to fall at the manager''s feet, but we''ve now got a new coach in, a new right winger, players like Safri returning from injury and I do think Etuhu will come good, so how about we give the guy a fair chance this season? If it ends up like last season by the midway point, I can understand more the desire to have a change, but give him the time in these first few months, that I genuinely think he has earnt from us.

And to follow on from this. I have say that I hate the idea of Sutton returning to the club, as it really does suggest a season of simply pinging it forward in the hope that Sutton can find his form of 5 years ago+ and get some headers in for us. WE DON''T NEED A TARGET MAN!, we just need to play the football style that suits our players - basically, pass the damn thing short. It''s not rocket science.

Wow, The suggestion that someone needs to be on 20K plus a week in order to pass a ball shorter than 50yds, is not only a fairly ridiculous state, but if true, but suggest quite a worrying state of affairs in football in general. Let''s be honest about this, ANY PROFESSIONAL footballer should be able to pass the ball short and accurately, if they were pinging it 60yds away I can understand passes going astray, but 5 metres seemed challenging to some of out lads last season. We can''t be compared to Chelsea or Arsenal, although I genuinely believe that if we truly adopted Arsenal''s style of play, we''d put some fantastic results in. We may not have ''World Beaters'' such as Henry or Fabregas, but we''ve certainly got some talented players. Nice to see Crofty sign from MC, he really could be the player we need to kickstart a revolution, I want players like him and Hucks cut in with the ball and give the defender something to worry about, rather than swirling hopeful balls to strikers who are clearly under-strength and under-height to compete fully for them. Play to Earnie''s and Leon''s strong points, incisive through balls to run onto, little flicks for them to connect with, we''d be banging goals in for fun if we followed this idea. We have got the team, we have got the skills, we just need Worthy to make sure they are using them and if they insist on playing long balls, maybe some time on the subs bench will make them reconsider their choice...

I guess i''m in the minority that don''t think Etuhu and Jonson were bad signings. I don''t think the majority of fans have given Etuhu a fair chance yet and i''m hoping this season he''ll be able to prove he does have the qualities we are looking for. As for Jonson, it was simply a case of not performing in the English game. He was oustanding in Sweden before signing for us, he was playing regularly for the national side and now he''s returned home, he''s yet again getting rave reviews. Sometimes some players simply don''t adapt as well as the manager would hope for. I don''t think there''s a manager out there who hasn''t made a mistake or two in the transfer market, even legends such as Ferguson and Wenger (7 million for Francis Jeffers anyone?) I suppose this does technically make him a bad signing as he didn''t perform as hoped, but I really don''t see this as Worthy''s fault, with hindsight, no-one would ever sign a bad player. I''ve not been impressed with Hughes as my original post states, but again Hughes was a player who was performing well at his previous club and Worthy thought he may be the player to solve our right midifeld problem. I think that if we went into this in more depth, I probably rate some of the players more than you do, but I think with what Worthy has had made available to him in funds, and with who he could convince to sign, he''s done a fair job..Let''s face it, we were out of the top flight for a decade, how many ''top'' players do you think any manager can convince to sign following this? I think Worthy''s error was to not spend a bit more when we were in the Prem, to get the players in whilst we had chance, but then he''d likely have been critiicised for overspending and leaving the club with a massive financial burden on relegation. I''d rather have a manager who takes a few chances on signings hoping to bring in some rough diamonds (Damien Francis anyone) than one who sits there simply tinkering with tactics, blithely hoping that he can get his squad to perform, as a number of Championship managers do.

LOL, My original statement was: [quote user="Indy_Bones"]Problem being that we just aren''t a long ball team (at least traditionally)[/quote] I admit last season was a bit of a travesty from a passing game POV, however I think we can move back towards this rather than looking for this elusive ''target man''. Indy.

I personally wouldn''t see it as a good investment. McBride''s scoring record is hardly any better than McKenzies, and i''d rather have Mckenzies pace than McBride''s heading. Just my 2 cents.

Sorry, but I have to agree with Worthy on this one. Sutton was awful last season for Birmingham, and has always relied on crosses/high balls to really get the goals. Problem being that we just aren''t a long ball team (at least traditionally), and now with Sutton''s total lack of pace to factor in, I think he''d be another high profile, end of career flop. Don''t get me wrong, I think he WAS a great player, but now is really starting to slide. And if you can''t score more than 1 goal in 10 games with Pennant (Who I think was the most accurate crosser in the prem last year) giving you the supply, what chance does he have with us? Leave Chris and his 20k plus a week wages alone, and give Jarvis a run out.

Hi All, I''ve been thinking about what I personally see this club as needing to do to move forward, and get that promotion back into the Prem. Do I think we need a new manager - No. An answer that may baffle some, but let''s be totally fair here despite recent form not being as good as we have hoped, Worthy has made some cracking signings in his time at the club. 00/01 - Drury, Holt, Notman, 01/02 Nielsen, Rivers, 03/04 Brennan, Francis, Hucks, McKenzie, 04/05 Ashton, Safri, Doherty, Bentley (When in right frame of mind), 05/06 Earnie, Etuhu (Will come good I think). Yes, we''ve had some poor signings as well, but if you look at the majority of Worthy''s ''bigger'' deals, almost every one of them has proved to be a good signing. My main concerns have always been about the defence, and the lack of 2 top strikers. I think the basic ''spine'' of the team is pretty decent, Greeny and Gallacher are both good keepers and Joe Lewis could easily mature as well. Drury has been arguably one of our best signings ever, and is probably our most consistently good player (Was great to see him mark Rooney out of the 2-0 Man Utd game). Shackell is developing well and if he stays injury free could be a huge asset to the team. However that''s where my good feelings about the defence end. Flem is just getting too old to truly hack it against many quicker players even though I have a lot of respect for what he has brought to the club during his time here. I''ve not seen a really good right back since Kenton left, and seeing has how Leicester just signed him on a free, i''m amazed we didn''t go back in for him. I''m also yet to be convinced about Doc, Some games he looks top class, as if he''d get into most mid-table prem teams, but in others, he''s bloody awful and is often responsible for us conceeding. If he could get some consistency going, he''d be a great player, shame really. Midfield wise, Obviously Hucks on the left wing, is a no-brainer, and if he''s fit, Safri in a defensive midfield role. But where''s the attacking midifelder and right winger? Etuhu could be the attacking player we need, he just needs to really settle in and get his confidence back and if he does, I think we could see some screamers from him. For all his hard work and effort, Andy Hughes for me will never be a right winger, he just isn''t fast enough or skillful enough. Mcveigh could play there, let''s face it, the guy was banging in 10 goals plus a season for us at one point. Personally I can''t think of much good to say about the rest of the midfield, as it''s all much of a muchness, Henderson has got potential for the right wing if Worthy doesn''t want to play Mcveigh, but he''ll need to find more than 1 goal every 10 months or so. As for the strikers, again, Earnie, total no-brainer obviously our best chance of getting goals. But I just can''t see where the support will come from. Thorne is past it, McKenzie has never truly convinced me he''s got the goals in him, but if he can just do enough to take the defenders away from Earnie and Hucks, he could perform an invaluable job. I would like to see more of Jarvo this season, I think now is the time for him to come good, get over the injury problems and make people say ''Wow, who''s this Jarvis lad at Norwich?''. I''m not expecting Wayne Rooney, but he really has got the potential to be a top goalscorer, he just needs the minutes to do so. So, what do I think we need? Well, I want to see what Louis Jean can offer at right back, or whether Colin can start to perform. Chances are one of them will do a fair job and at least we''ve got cover. And I want some damn consistency from Doherty for a change. In fact, from a signings point of view, I don''t think we need much. I''ll be happy if Lee Croft signs, as he again has great potential and could give us the right wing option we''ve lacked for a while. The main thing I think we need is to provide the club, manager, and players with the sort of support we''ve traditionally offered, as no matter what we as fans may think about the quality of the manager or some of the team, if we don''t give them support how will they ever perform? Imagine as a player walking out there in front of 25,000 fans only to hear half of them start cursing or grumbling that you''re playing...My motivation would be in the bin and there''s only so long you can have the self-confidence to try to prove people wrong before it all gets a bit much. All we need to do now is convicne Worthy to stop this silly ''Target Man'' idea, get back to playing passing football and concentrate on defending better. Look at Arsenal, they play the passing game to perfection (when on form) and I don''t see Arsene Wenger demanding a burly target man to help Henry out, reason being that they just don''t play long balls or go for lots of crosses, and neither should we. Take a leaf from their book and play to our advantages, use Hucks speed and skill, give Earnie the balls to feet he thrives on, don''t have 8 men behind the ball all the time, let''s get attacking and really have teams worried about who on earth they need to mark as we''ve got threats coming at them from all sides. They stand off, we take a few long range efforts from players like Etuhu, Safri, Mcveigh, we make defenders go back by letting Hucks scare the life out of them on the wing.. And give the players the best support so that even if we go 1-0 down, all the opposition can hear is a wall of sound of OTBC etc. Apols for the essay, just thought i''d make the first post meaningful (At least in my eyes [:)])