FatMan Fat

At long last a really decent thread on the question of Mr Worthington, with both sides in the main putting across reasonable arguements. I almost feel vindicated in my beliefs after being called "eloquent" and the "voice of reason" A wiser man than me once said, "Opinions cause arguements, facts resolve them". Right now wehave a lot of opinions being voices, hence the arguements. Now, what were those facts again... Goals against; points away from home; finishing position

My post about Greeno''s mum saying he is staying is 100 percent accurate - and straight from his mum''s mouth

It is not a case of Worthington out just because we have been relegated. Several regular posters on this board have been voicing their concerns over Worthington for well into last season and even beyond that. Those concerns were voiced, over a very long period of time, because of - 1) Dubious signings 2) Strange team selections 3) Obvious favouritism towards certain players 4) Obvious personal dislike of other players 5) Signing players and then not playing them 6) A lack of progression as far as tactics and coaching are concerned 7) Continual bland statements after we had played poorly 8) A lack of "balance" in the squad, and hence the team - check out the squad right now...it is scary how many gaps need to be filled How people can say we did "fantastically well" last season amazes me.  Just look at the statistics...we DID NOT do fantastically well last season.  We were crap defensively and poor away from home. We got relegated for goodness sake because we couldn''t stop leaking goals and because we couldn''t win a single game away from home. It is my belief that another manager could have made us better defensively (look what Hughes did at Blackburn for instance) or coached us to the single win away from home, either of which would have kept us up. When it came down to it we had to one just one game to stay up.  We bottled that with the worst result of the season...so much for inspiring leadership. Come on peeps, get real...Worthington is not a great manager, he is at best an adequate manager and we deserve better than that.    

And I can tell you, quite genuinely, that his mum says he is staying at Norwich. Let''s hope that mum knows best

Just to answer two of the replies. 1) The purpose of the post is that there are other managers out there, who if available, would be better managers for NCFC than Worthington. It was just to get some of the posters on this board to see that Worthington is not the be all and end all. 2) Royal and Burley are non starters for "obvious reasons"? Because they have associations with Ipswich? So, we wouldn''t sign Bent if he was available? Or any other Ipswich player? Royal has managed over 1,000 games and has a wealth of experience and has proven that he can build teams. Burley is one of the most gifted coaches/mangers in the game, as recognized by most impartial observers.

I am extremely comcerned about the strength of our squad for next year. Right now it looks like this - Goalkeepers - Green, Ward, Gallacher, Lewis Right Back - ? - (Eddy out of contract; Helvig won''t stay/too old) Centre Backs - Shackell, then we have to perm 2 from Flem (too old?); Doc (not good enough?) Charlton (too old/too short?) Left Back - Drury, cover from Charlton (too old?) and Brennan (constantly out of favour?) Right Midfield - Jonsson if he stays, then no cover as MvVeigh going. Central Midfield - Saffri, assuming he stays fit and also out of trouble; Holt (not good enough according to most people?); Francis (not conmmitted enough for most people and possible on his way?) Left Midfield - Brennan (constantly out of favour?) - Hucks is not a midfield player. Strikers - Ashton; Hucks; Leon; Svensson;and for cover - Henderson; Jarvis; Crowe. Please, please, please tell me I have missed something?

Just a thought about comparing Worthington with the the three managers involved in relegation  from the Premiership and the six managers involved in promotion from the Championship. If it were possible to have any of these other managers, and if we were to be truly honest, who would you rather have as our manager? My vote is as follows - Worthington v Robson - winner Robson Worthington v Dowie - winner Dowie Worthington v Redknapp - winner Worthington Worthington v McCarthy - winner McCarthy Worthington v Jewell - winner Jewell Worthington v Royal - winner Royal Worthington v Davies -winner Worthington Worthington v Burley - winner Burley Worthington v Pardew - winner Worthington. So for me, I would rather have 6 out of the 9 as our manager Oh, I would also prefer Danny Wilson and possibly John Deehan.  I think the few seasons that Dixie has served in the lower leagues would now make him a much better manager than the last time he had a crack. Now, I wonder just how honest people can be when comparing Worthington to the 9 managers above

Gordon Strachan would do for me, as would several others if they became available - Dowie; Royal; Burley. For me, these are all better managers than Worthington. I have always been impressed with Danny Wilson and I think Deehan would make a really good manager after his few years experience in the lower leagues.

It''s interesting that several of the posters on this thread attack posters from the "Worthington Out" camp By their own admissions many of our team are not good enough, or are not comitted enough. So, who signed them, coaches them and picks them? Mr Worthington! Now be truthfull - does Worthington inspire you when you see and hear him? I wouldn''t get out of the trenches after one of his one paced statements that completely lack passion, and very often the truth.

Don''t you just love Delia Her recent "Press Release" shows just how much she wears her heart on her sleeve -  a real fan. She has brought tears to my eyes on several occassions (once with embarrassement, lol) but you got to love her! Long may she and Michael continue as our majority sahreholders.

Wizard...firstly there is nothing wrong in having doubts over your previous opinions. If a person can''t, or won''t, change their minds that would make them arrogant, and I am sure that you are not arrogant! Personally I have had my own doubts over Worthington for a long period of time and have posted such thoughts from well into last season. To me, he is not the "Messiah" for all the reasons that have been stated over many, many months - but that is just my opinion. If we stay up then Worthington will have achieved his prime task and based on that he should be given the chance to further improve the Club. If we go down, then my opinion is that he should go. Given that we stay up, it will not stop me having an opinion as to how good a manager Worthington is. To my mind he is not in the same league as Saunders, Bond, Brown or Walker. All of those had the ability to drastically alter the way the team played, all of them had the ability to massively improve the strength of the team with astute signings. Perhaps he will grow into being a really, really good manager for us - I sort of hope so because that probably means we will stay up after Sunday

Thats the problem, Rasputin, some people just launch in with their posts without really reading the thread

Worthington a hero?...pppllleeeaaassse "Kipper" was a hero; Duncan was a hero; Ted was a Hero; Gunny; Watson; Bruce; Peters, Flecky, Iwan ,"et al" were heroes - but Worthington, no

Old Boy, you must have read a different article to me.  In the one I read Worthington blamed Hucks for two of the goals stating that he didn''t backtrack and defend well enough. Well, surprise, surprise that a "flair" player who is actually a striker (and shouldn''t be playing left midfield) didn''t play in a defensive midfield role As for evidence of Worthington freezing out players just ask Malky how he heard he was being transferred - his wife saw it on evening TV and told him when he got home -fact! What happened to Helveg and Safri earlier in the season when they WERE fit and we were dropping points all over the place. What happened to Leon earlier in the season? What has happened to Brennan ever since he has been here? And Docherty? Why wasn''t Shackell played earlier? What happened to Higginbottom (if that was his name) and Briggs? They were signed by Worthington and never given a chance. Whether the Worthington defenders like it or not he has a long list of falling out with players. He has a history of sticking with players who are not performing as well as they should, or no doubt you would dispute that as well? Couple all of that to our record this season in terms of goals scored away, and goals conceded, our inability to defend a lead, our lack of concentration and overall tactical naivety and it all adds up, in my opinion, that Worthington is not the right man for the job. Evidently, in your opinion, he is the right man for the job. So be it

The purpose of my original post was to express my concern about Worthington''s lack of "Man Management" in that he chose to criticise a single player in public and to infer that that single player was responsible for our defeat. I am amazed that some Worthington lovers have actually condoned that behaviour. I would suggest that people take more notice of how divisive Worthington''s style of management is, about how many players have been frozen out, about how if you are "in" with Worthington you will play week in week out but if you are "out" with Worthington you will not get a game. Even our local Press mentioned last week that it "doesn''t pay to cross Worthington" Strong management is one thing, letting personal likes and dislikes clouding your judgement is another thing. The evidence that Worthington allows personal issues to affect his judgement has been evident all season in terms of his team selections and his treatment of certain players. Combine that with his lack of coaching and tactical nuance and that is why I don''t think he is the man for us.

So there we have it - having thrown away another golden opportunity on Saturday, Worthington comes out and criticises IN PUBLIC just one single player. Worthington should have known if Hucks was fully fit, and if not, then he should have made a different selection on Saturday allowing Hucks to come off the bench later in the match. If Hucks was fit, doesn''t Worthington realise that he is essentially a striker, a "flair" player who has contributed to many of our goals this season (scoring or making), he is not a defensive midfielder - to have a go in public about his lack of defending is appalling "man management". If he expected/instructed Hucks to track back more than he did, why wait so long before substituting him? It seems very much a case of dumping the blame on probably our most influential player over the course of the season rather than accepting where the responsibility lies - with the manager Oh, and something for you all to ponder - I haven''t checked, but I was told by Flem that he has played in everyone of the last 90 games. Interesting ,don''t you think

Good to see you are back at home, Wiz. Good to see you are on the case with Worthy as well

Well, I hate to say it, but a few posters on this board have been saying that Worthington isn''t up to the job because of his tactical naivety.  If we go down, it won''t be because of this match but because of CP at home and away, MC at home and a couple of other cock ups where the extra 6 points or so would have left us well clear of relegation. People say that worthington is a young manager and he is learning. Really? He still hasn''t learned how to defend a lead

2-1 to us

If its Player Of The SEASON then for me its Hucks or Leon. I wear the name of Hucks on my back, but for sheer commitment and never die attitude I would vote for Leon.

I apologize for not having seen this thread earlier ...I truly hope you get well soon.  All the very best.

Make sure you take it easy for a while..then return with your unique style when you are good and ready

I too would congratulate Zipper on his post. It has a more balanced view than my opinions and thats probably no bad thing.

As I said in my original post, if Worthington keeps us up he has done his job - if he doesn''t, then he hasn''t done his job and he should go. Simple, really

Well at least Silver Fox doesn''t view life through blinkered glasses Still, next week will remain a crucial match and the problem is which team will turn up for us? The one that rolls over and dies, or the one that keeps going to the end? And therein lies most of the problem this season and thats why I question Worthington as a manager. The point being is that we shouldn''t even be in this position, but due to the inconsistency and collapse during three or four vital matches we are fighting for our survival, and for me that''s down to having an ineffective manager.