TeemuVanBasten

The paradox is that we need Hanley to do well between now and January if Webber is going to be comfortable spending money on his upgrade. And even if we can justify spending at that point we may decide our January budget is needed elsewhere.... The fact we are only one injury or suspension (to Pukki) away from starting Sberny right now is the greater concern for me. In both full back positions we've got players who would need to really step up if Aarons or Lewis get an injury. The thread questions whether we're a centre defender away from a Premier League squad, but with Zimmermann coming back and Ampadou able to play there... I'd question whether it's actually the primary area of concern. Drmic needs to get fit and stay fit before I stop worrying about Pukki every week.

On August 8th you declared yourself happy with our transfer business, so we're all football geniuses with the benefit of hindsight aren't we. Ampadou can play centre back, apparently looked decent there last night, he's an option if Hanley continues to struggle. Signing him was the club identifying the need for more depth in two positions. Hopefully Tettey remains fit so Ampadou can be in contention there. Perhaps the club simply couldn't afford a quality centre back this summer? Looking at Bolton and Bury and I'd consider living within our means and not gambling on Premier League survival like we did when we signed Naismith and Jarvis to be the number 1 priority. We knew it would be tough this season, Fulham showing that throwing money about not always the answer, QPR showed it under Fernandes. We went up a season earlier than planned. We've only seen Hanley against one mediocre Premier League side, the other two games were against current European Champions. Not the fairest sample to use, because we have no idea what Zimmermann looks like against that level of opposition yet and it's been a while since Klose had his only 10 games in this league too. Leicester won the league with Wes Morgan FFS, so we can stay up with Grant Hanley.

Well now we need Hanley because it looks like he's going to be one of just three fit centre backs until at least January. Can you see now why it makes more sense to support and encourage the players we have fit and available rather than knock their confidence by writing essays about how **** they are? We need the best Hanley we can possibly get, and we get that by getting behind him. The fans (eventually) rallied around Krul after his dodgy patch and we got a better keeper as a result. Hanley is basically Malky Mackay. Now Mackay was no Premier League player, but you know what? We could have done with him for a year under Worthington, just like we need Hanley here right now. How about it Indy? Be a real fan and help us all try and get the best out of what we've got to work with? We've always done that as a club, we've got away with Leon Barnett and Aaron Wilbraham at this level... I'm sure we could do alright with a Scottish International if we work on giving him a bit more protection against the more dangerous sides... and that's where a march fit Tettey or Ampadou comes in. How about we just support every man in the 25 in possible the most important season in our history? Doesn't that sound like a nice idea? No more threads slagging off our our own players? We've got no bad eggs... No Grabbans, no Oliveria's, no shirkers or lazy twats, togetherness is what makes this club great right now. Fans have played a big part in that.

Can't see much wrong with it personally, although do think it makes more sense to do these things when the subject is living. When do we start the ball rolling for the Kevin Keelan statue?

Not as shameful as Bury boys Phil Neville and Gary Neville helping to bankroll the rise of a plastic club because Salford with its media city has become trendy while their hometown club (which both their parents have been involved in, Neville Neville was s director once) goes extinct.

How do you really solve the problem of dodgy owners though? Both these clubs need a high net worth individual to come along and pump some money in. But if you were a high net worth individual why would you do that when you know it makes zero business sense, and you'd get no gratitude at all for your altruism or at least only get it for the short term. Let's say I walked into Bolton tonight with £5m and a clear plan to achieve sustainability. If two years down the line the club was operating in its means but that meant having the status in the game of a Barnsley/Rotherham/Peterborough, how long before Bolton fans start demanding I find foreign investment to bankroll a promotion push / gamble because they once had Jay Jay Okocha and Ivan Campo and therefore deserve their eternal Premier League Status. Being a football club owner is just completely thankless and wouldn't be any fun at all. That's why you end up with all these clueless chancers picking up clubs for a quid.

Guessing the chances of getting a stream are pretty slim? I know there are tickets left but the missus is working away and I'm left holding the toddler!

Yes I think that would be a fair conclusion.

I find him quite amusing to be honest, he's making a decent little career for himself playing devil's advocate and enjoying himself in the process. He went bankrupt a few years ago after some poor investment decisions so needs the punditry gigs and his old man is struggling with dementia . Did wind me up a bit but that's the niche he has carved for himself, live and let live. He said a lot of complimentary things about Norwich last season so I didn't let it wind me up too much. Every group of friends has that one mate who is a constant wind up merchant, the "he's a **** but he's OUR ****" mate, I find it easy to have a little chuckle at Sutton when it's other teams so not going to get annoyed when it's our turn to get a little poke. Knowing Sutton he'll wind up Chelsea fans next time, he just enjoys rubbing people up the wrong way.

Perhaps we do want Jack Butland but the fee was made up? He's actually more a Norwich type player than perhaps you believe. Seriously highly rated youngster who for whatever reason finds his career faltering in his mid twenties... Moritz Leitner anyone? Butland actually good with his feet and could have his best years ahead of him, it makes a fair bit of sense. The fee is ludicrous, we wouldn't pay that, but I don't think he would cost that if Stoke need to cut the wage bill... His stock isn't too high right now. If the figure was £10m in the summer it would make a lot of sense, how much do you think Shalke will want for Ralf? He won't come cheap, he has a high profile.

He was set to join Blackburn on loan but then Zimmermann had knee surgery, we wouldn't have sanctioned even if we had a target. Two days after it was announced that Hanley was staying Zimmermann had his surgery.

What part of only having two fit centre backs are you struggling to understand?

Hanley was very close to signing for a Championship club in July and that suggests that we had somebody lined up doesn't it? Either we had somebody lined up but we pulled out when we found out we had to keep paying Hanley, or our move fell through and we told Hanley he was required after all. But Hanley wouldn't have been that close to signing for another team if we didn't have a target or two in that position.

How about pragmatism? I see no sense in creating a scapegoat out of or further denting the confidence of somebody who we know is just filling in right now and who, whether you like it or not, was given a new five year contract just one year ago. You may find that the cards aren't all in the clubs hands with that one mate, he could get paid for four years to be a terrible pro if he wanted and that there is no option to "cut" a contracted player as and when we want. We could well need him again on the pitch should it transpire after he reverts to being a backup player that he isn't the root cause of all our problems afterall and we get relegated this season.

What seems to have gone over some people's heads is that Ampadou can play centre back or defensive midfielder, like Ben Godfrey. That's what Farke said when we signed him?

Short memories... Hanley our best defender in Zimmermann's first season, he would have learnt a lot from Hanley. Hanley has been the model pro since losing his place. His level is the Championship but deserves more than threads like this, has been a model pro.

Outside of the 5 or 6 biggest teams in the league no other team is likely to have a 4th choice centre back that could be considered "very good" at this level. Just feels like people are stating the obvious and being unfair to Hanley as an individual. He knew where he stood this season which is why he almost signed for a Championship club. He's all we've got fit, we know Klose and hopefully Zimmermann are better. Perhaps in January he'll complete that move and we'll upgrade, in the meantime he's one of ours and we support him whenever he's on the pitch. This club has made giant strides towards being one about togetherness and winning and losing as a club. We could carry on in that direction or we could start threads slagging off our players.

Why is Hanley the fall guy again? What is it with this clubs fans always needing a scapegoat. I thought Jamal Lewis had a shaky game too and Stiepermann isn't exactly setting the world alight and under a stricter ref would have been a liability today. What is there to be gained by singling out a player when that player has been the only available option? Unfortunately we've had to play 2 top sides with only two fit centre backs, **** happens.

But neither do we, we can't compete for domestic players so have to try and bring through our own.

Based on last season's form yes, they still need to try and replicate that in the Premier League before we can rush to that judgement.

Just needs to add goals to his game now, sure they will come.

Insightful, why don't you stop having a pop at fellow fans and start looking forward instead of backwards. Best fans in the league. There's a good lad.

So? It's football, a lot of football fans are fickle. The truth is that he looked well off the boil when he came in for the suspended Buendia and at that time we dropped a lot of points, of course fans are going to be emotive and have a moan at times like that. The reality is that he was probably a bit distracted by the contract stalemate. Now he's looking in top form and that's a positive thing for him, the club and all of us. You probably care about this a lot more than Cantwell, who looks very happy. His hair has improved too.

On this thread giving credit where credit is due?

Me neither but based on all the negative comments I've seen about Hanley it feels like my opinion is unpopular at the moment. We managed to get by with Elliott Ward and Leon Barnett under Lambert... I think Hanley looks terrible in some people's eyes because we've got more quality at the back than we had since probably 1994, he's being compared to the best group of defenders we've had in twenty odd years.