Morph

@Parma Ham's gone mouldy Should we worry that he might last beyond the end of the season? What if he gets us promoted? What then?

@Parma Ham's gone mouldy if you were making those substitutions feeling you had to to save Sargent and Hernandez for other games would you have gone for like for like subs? Say Fassanacht and Van Hoojidonk? Was there even a need to change the approach? It seems odd, nay contrarian, to believe that Barnes can lead the line on his own. A different type of player to Sargent. Yet that’s the second game he’s made such a change.

How about the rule from rugby where dissent against an awarded infringement gets the ball moved forward five yards. Becomes interesting at the edge of the box of course

Removed the org chart I found as may not have been up to date….. Presumably the shadow board that Parma refers to is the supervisory board as it is described on several pages referring to the FC Bayern corporate structure

@Don J Demorr could you explain what power and responsibility a football person on the board might have over the football strategy being implemented by the club? Say City appointed a Director of Football (say @Parma Ham's gone mouldy or @Unthink road or @Barham Blitz) what would be their remit?

Actually @Fen Canary I think there is evidence to suggest that you need to adapt your style of play to survive on promotion. You can play your way out of the Championship, City did it twice and Burnley did it last season - Southampton may do it this season. However, several people have alluded or pointed out the fact that you can’t do that in the EPL with your Championship squad, so you need a more pragmatic way of playing. I think the suggestion is that the gegenpress quick transition style that Wagner wants to play could work at EPL level. I guess the question I’m left with is the club capable of identifying the need to switch styles on promotion and get the right additions to make it really work. @Parma Ham's gone mouldy could you see such an approach working?

So @Monty13 do you see the season as a right off whilst Knapper and Attanasio get their ducks in a row? Where then does it leave the club in terms of rebuilding with several over 30s on longish contracts?

Gosh @Parma Ham's gone mouldy I would have said that post was almost prescient. I was going to ask you, if Norwich could play like any team through history who would it be and why? Give us your top 3

Not wishing to be negative on this excellent thread given the preponderance of those in the forum, but we have a number of knowledgeable posters on here identifying issues with the setup of the playing side of the organisation yet such issues, and potential remedies seem to not be apparent to the people in post. Where are the checks and balances against such an oversight? Do we have a dogged adherence to one way of playing that ignores its shortcomings in light of the players we have available?

@Parma Ham's gone mouldy excellent post. In this SD HC operation is the style of play a collaborative decision or an edict passed down by the SD that all HCs should follow if they work for the club? Furthermore, who is responsible for addressing those questions you raise, and those points others have pointed out about players positions and roles? Knapper or Wagner? Who determines how the young talent is developed and gets game time? Warner, Rowe et al From what you’ve seen is Wagner addressing any of those questions himself. His whole team selection, in game changes et al just seem random, like he’s throwing a D20 for any decision and choice he makes. For many supporters no rhyme or reason in what he’s doing.

@BigFish your comment sadly suggests that the selection of a suitable manager is somewhat of a lottery too, with football history littered with stories of managers successful at one club who fail time and again to reproduce said success. sounds like Wagners replacement, if it happens, is someone with a good background that has lived in the shadow of someone known for success.

@BigFish you highlight a very important point about football supporters in that they defy any logic or reason around brand loyalty. The only phrase I can think of to sum it up is “If you cut us do we not bleed yellow and green” Does it ever mean that they desert the terraces when things are bad? Those years tumbling into League One did the fan numbers decrease?

@Don J Demorr this has been one of the best threads on the forum and I thank you for your insights. i do have question / comments. Forgive my naivety and lack of business insight. Question I have is whether the club can be considered a successful business without success on the pitch? Is the football success a pre-requisite for business success? Could City be a successful business outside the top flight? The primary source of revenue from top flight football is TV revenues, but that income only really comes from having success on the pitch, to get to the EPL and stay there. What are the other sources of income? Gate receipts Player sales Other club revenues Are there other income streams that haven’t been identified and exploited? Expanding the ground to take in more revenue does that require the club to be in the EPL? I have no idea as to whether or how big a season ticket waiting list is. If the club is a middling Championship team could it survive on turnover of supporters?

Merry Christmas one and all.

A rhetorical question for our posters with coaching experience that comes from comments made in Connor Southwells review of yesterday: is the average age of your side important? Apparently an average age of 29.8 in the starting lineup yesterday. whats the peak age for a player? 26? If you are an U21 player watching that yesterday do you feel there’s a path for you to first team football in the club? How does this current makeup fit with any long term strategy? If, that’s a massive if, that team got promoted how many of those aging players would you want to consider for the next season?

@Parma Ham's gone mouldy your eloquence far exceeds my own, but there are times when I read one of your posts and feel like I’m trying to read the tea leaves at the bottom of my teacup. Football really has got itself into a ****e state if money is all there is. Can City be self sustaining or is that a myth promoted early on by Webber to try and prove he was some kind of messiah or was he just simply a very naughty boy when he later screwed the proverbial pooch with his profligate behaviour. Should we dream to be self sustaining or is there really no other way than to have a rich sugar daddy to survive in todays football world. I would love to think/believe that moneyball will work for us.

Can I ask how would the posters on here, and the fans in general feel if the club adopted the approach put forward in the excellent @Christoph Stiepermann post? would you be happy to the club periodically make it to the top table but invariably came down? Or would you rather City strived for more? I see so many posts from certain posters on here bemoaning the lack of money injected by D&M, but I think we can all agree thatches don’t have it and it doesn’t guarantee success. Gone are the days of City sitting in 4th Place in the Premier League. I think what many would hope is that the methodology was stuck to through good and bad in the vain hope that it’s a repeated cycle with the occasional successful lengthy stay in the promised land.

It doesn’t, it’s a rolling 12 month contract. I can only assume that every day he has another 12 months to go. presumably means termination requires paying him 12 months pay.

Question to all then. If the club sticks by Wagner and it continues on its current trajectory towards relegation do we all feel that is acceptable as part of the whole reset process? I mean Barnes and Sargent could come back and early season form is rediscovered or the team continues to under perform and get stuck fighting for survival.

Can I ask a naive question, and be prepared to be shot down, but could the Norfolk group write off the loans in exchange for shares taking them to a majority shareholding?

Yeah sounds like the last few years they’ve really screwed the pooch, so to speak

@Parma Ham's gone mouldy thank you for that. When a reader on this forum gives up on reading a lot of threads because of the banter one can miss the threads that are really good. Appreciate your time in finding that.

A follow on question to @Parma Ham's gone mouldy in light of his Cryuff 343 comments (really would love to appreciate the tactics part of the game and be able to watch a game and immediately notice what was going on) - could we implement your 343 with what we have and what would it look like? GK Gunn CB Duffy CB Hanley CB/Libero ?? Warner (Godfrey would have been great here or at DM) DM Sorenson BBM McLean / Gibbs APM Sara AM Nunez IWL Rowe / Placheta / Sainz IWR Hernandez / Fassanacht / Rowe F9 Sargent / Barnes / Idah Apologies for use of FM labels, hopefully you’ll correct me. And if going off topic, sorry, maybe there should be a Parma’s Tactics School thread

For context @nutty nigel I was a bright eyed 10 year old on those bench seats in the City Stand in the 71/72 season. Time and life sees me so far from the hallowed turf now. @Parma Ham's gone mouldy excellent discourse and explanation. We need a bright eyed manager that knows his players and how he can use them to disrupt the opposition to great effect, not a man that only sees his way as the way to play. A man that has digested the manual of tactics and can adjust and adapt to suit his team. Is there such a man? We can but hope.

@nutty nigel a question for you. Did you consider City to have a recognisable identity and style in those early Farke years? When did you think they abandoned it? And do you want something similar back? A long term plan and vision of how City will play. Or are you more a results person?