HILARIOUS

[Warren Hill 0]

Yet another angle? Really? The squads they inherited...

I give up...

[TIL 1010 4,748]

[quote user="Warren Hill"]Yet another angle? Really? The squads they inherited... I give up...[/quote]

So you don''t think that is of any relevance ?

I give up too.

[Warren Hill 0]

Put both lists up then Til.

The players inherited by both and let''s compare.

[Warren Hill 0]

Oh, and Indy...

It might not be about points for you but until they start deciding who stays up and who goes down based on artistic merit, that''s exactly what it''s about.

[TIL 1010 4,748]

[quote user="Warren Hill"]Put both lists up then Til. The players inherited by both and let''s compare.[/quote]

You would only disagree until the cows come home anyway Warren. It is well documented that Di Canio threw the baby out of the pram when he took over and I believe signed in excess of fourteen players over the summer and I for one as I am sure many others were but not you I do not suppose for one minute were laughing at the no mark unproven foreign mercenaries that he saw as a quick fix to Sunderland''s future. One point from the first seven games kind of proved him wrong.

[Indy 3,300]

[quote user="Warren Hill"]Oh, and Indy... It might not be about points for you but until they start deciding who stays up and who goes down based on artistic merit, that''s exactly what it''s about.[/quote]

 

Only in the minds of the modern sterile football fans, those brought up on Sky Sports and the obscene money demanded by the players cripling the clubs the longer they stay in this division.

 

For me and I expect many others, it''s still about being excited by watching the old guard, geting to Wembeley and picking up silverware was a prize worth going for and fans connecting with players, managers and staff.

 

This is the state of medern football that the like of you Warren are happy to watch such poor, unorgainised and unmotivated footballers, so long as we reach safety each year. Jesus it was only a few years ago there was a huge thread on here saying we would rather play good football at lower divisions than watch such poor football Stoke were playing in this division! How standards have dropped.

[Warren Hill 0]

Put the lists up Til. You''ve made a claim that Hughton inherited a stronger squad, if he did then I''d say so, put the lists up an we''ll compare.

Indy, you purist of the game you. Rather see better football in a lower division...but with an aspiration to what? You don''t like the Premier League.

It''s not about how standards have dropped, though clearly you are a fan-class above the likes of me, it''s about trying to lay foundations for the future, if you''d rather we played in a more expansive way and would accept relegation as a consequence then you are a wuckfit.

The Premier league has a lot to answer for, perhaps the potential pitfalls financially of a relegation do lead clubs to have a whatever it takes attitude to stay up. None but the very best consistently play the type of football you crave, we''re 12th in the top flight, if you can''t enjoy that, well, I''m not sure what to suggest. Grass roots or non-league perhaps? Football at its innocent purest.

[Warren Hill 0]

Oh and Indy, poor footballers?

Name the poor footballers in our squad.

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="Indy"]

[quote user="Warren Hill"]Oh, and Indy... It might not be about points for you but until they start deciding who stays up and who goes down based on artistic merit, that''s exactly what it''s about.[/quote]

 

 

This is the state of medern football that the like of you Warren are happy to watch such poor, unorgainised and unmotivated footballers, so long as we reach safety each year. Jesus it was only a few years ago there was a huge thread on here saying we would rather play good football at lower divisions than watch such poor football Stoke were playing in this division! How standards have dropped.

[/quote]Ah, the crux of the matter. If only we were 1p5wich then we would be happy again.

[TIL 1010 4,748]

Warren I would not know where to find a list of Sunderland players as at 8th October 2013 being the technophobe that I am.[:D] However I do recall when Di Canio was signing his legion of mercenaries I thought to myself that it would have been good to have Smudger around with his in depth knowledge of these players. Half the clubs they were signed from I had never heard of alone let alone know how to pronounce and spell the names of the players.[;)]

I am more than happy for anybody to list these players on my behalf.

What I now find interesting is that you are asking Indy to name the poor players at Norwich. Now if you are suggesting that there are none pulling on the shirt how come our defence is on a par with Sunderland yet under Poyet they are scoring more goals.

Of course this may just be me moving the goalposts.

[Indy 3,300]

[quote user="Warren Hill"]Put the lists up Til. You''ve made a claim that Hughton inherited a stronger squad, if he did then I''d say so, put the lists up an we''ll compare. Indy, you purist of the game you. Rather see better football in a lower division...but with an aspiration to what? You don''t like the Premier League. It''s not about how standards have dropped, though clearly you are a fan-class above the likes of me, it''s about trying to lay foundations for the future, if you''d rather we played in a more expansive way and would accept relegation as a consequence then you are a wuckfit. The Premier league has a lot to answer for, perhaps the potential pitfalls financially of a relegation do lead clubs to have a whatever it takes attitude to stay up. None but the very best consistently play the type of football you crave, we''re 12th in the top flight, if you can''t enjoy that, well, I''m not sure what to suggest. Grass roots or non-league perhaps? Football at its innocent purest.[/quote]

 

It''s nice to see that with you are indeed a modern day fan and hold nothing for the true meaning of football and it''s fans....also having to lower yourself to abuse as normal! Nice standard of fans we have calling people names!

 

Why do you bother going to football? (if you actually go) Do you call just surviving in this league each season a success? Or would you rather win a cup and go into Europe?

 

Call me what you like but the past two seaosn have been a poor reflection of a football team, regardless of where we are in this league, even ex players can see how poor we are with Russell himslef saying we don''t have an identity or style, but he must be a WUCKFIT too in you eyes.

 

That''s the last I can be bothered to someone who just resorts to insults, you''re not worth my response. 

[Warren Hill 0]

I don''t really get what your asking me Til?

Indy stated that he has been watching poor footballers at Carrow Road in the last 2 seasons and I''ve asked him to name them.

I don''t think that there are any poor footballers that play for Norwich, certainly not in comparison with the halcyon days of Jens Berthel Askou and Michael Spillane in League One. We have good footballers in our squad, not as good as some other teams have, but good nonetheless. To call them poor does them a disservice.

Even through this supposed turgid two years I''ve enjoyed watching a variety of players, Snodgrass, Bassong, Fer, Howson, Turner, Redmond, Hoolahan, Hooper and more, even David Fox the other week.. each for different reasons but they are all good footballers, they might not show it all the time, they may get outclassed now and again but to call them poor is ignorant.

How are you coming along with those lists Til?

Here''s a couple for starters....

Ward

Tierney

Ayala

Brown

O''Shea

Bardsley

[Barclay seats 4849 the 3rd 0]

[quote user="Tony Cottee Woz Ere . . ."]No, no, no making plans, that isn''t right! We did fantastically well to only lose 1-0 to the mighty Man Utd! We are only little ''ol Norwich after all. As a side i see Ricardo was right when he said changing managers was pointless and never works out, i mean just look at Sunderland (one defeat in eleven, carling cup final etc) and palace (risen from bottom to 16th). Terrible descision by both clubs, just imagine how much better they''d be faring had they stuck with Di Canio and Holloway................................[/quote]

THIS

[nutty nigel 7,536]

Poyet was appointed when Sunderland had 1 point from 7 games. They now have 18 from 22 games which means they''ve picked up 17 points from his 15 games. This is what the whole bottom 11 have donew in the same period : -

 

Palace 17

Sunderland 17

Norwich 16

Stoke 15

Villa 14

Swansea 14

WBA 13

Fulham 12

Hull 12

Cardiff 10

WestHam 10

 

In there we have a mix of club''s who have changed their managers and club''s who haven''t. Make of it what you will.

 

 

[Tumbleweed 106]

This illustrates the problem of using statistics. If S''land had 1 from 7, then took 17 from 15 then Poyet has improved their return by about 850%. That''s not a bad return from replacing your manager. But of course it''s a ludicrous one, which just shows there''s lies, damned lies and statistics!!

[nutty nigel 7,536]

[quote user="Tumbleweed"]This illustrates the problem of using statistics. If S''land had 1 from 7, then took 17 from 15 then Poyet has improved their return by about 850%. That''s not a bad return from replacing your manager. But of course it''s a ludicrous one, which just shows there''s lies, damned lies and statistics!![/quote]

 

I don''t think the issue is whether he''s improved them because he obviously has. The issue for me is whether Hughton, Laudrup, Lambert and Hughes should have joined the other managers who were axed.

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,536]

And Allardyce!

[......and Smith must score. 1,343]

[quote user="CJ"]Yes well seem to remember they went down when in another cup final some time ago[/quote]Shades of 1985 means I''m glad we''re not contesting this year''s Final then.......[:D]

[Warren Hill 0]

Just for you Til1010

I appreciate it''s difficult and I can''t be 100% sure about the accuracy or the spelling, but, here is the best I can find regarding what Poyet picked up at Sunderland. You''ll find the Norwich players easier to remember (and spell) Til, perhaps you''d like to list the players Hughton inherited and come back to me?

I''ll be surprised if he had over 400 international caps, 50 international goals, the winners of 11 Premier League titles, 4 FA Cups, 9 League cups, 3 Champions Leagues, 2 Scudettos, 2 Coppa Italia or an international major tournament runner-up, but I might be wrong.

Of course I jest, the Man United lads distort the trophy stats a bit, but then, they did still win them..

Jozy Altidore - Played in La Liga, Turkey and most recently Holland''s Eredivisie where he scored 39 times in 67 appearances for AZ Alkmaar. USA 66 CAPS 21 GOALS

Phil Bardsley - Man U product, played over 150 times for Sunderland, banished to training with the u21''s under DiCanio for breaching an alcohol ban. SCOTLAND 12 CAPS 0 GOALS

Fabio Borini - On loan from Liverpool who secured him after 9 goals in 24 appearances for AS Roma, played under Rodgers at Swansea too. ITALY 1 CAP 0 GOALS

Wes Brown - 34, Elder statesman signed from Manchester United a few years ago where he had made over 350 appearances. 5 PREMIER LEAGUE, 2 FA CUP, 3 LEAGUE CUP, 2 CHAMPIONS LEAGUE. ENGLAND 23 CAPS 1 GOAL

Adilson Tavares Varela - Signed from Basel where he had played in the Champions League. Loaned out to Genoa.

Lee Cattermole - Dirty. Racked up over 60 games for Sunderland, would probably be 100 but for suspensions.

Ondrej Celustka - On loan from Trabzonspor. CZECH REP 1 CAP 1 GOAL

Jack Colback - Played around 100 times for Sunderland and 50 for the scum.

Carlos Cuellar - Played nearly 100 times for Villa and had been Scottish Player of the Year. SCOTTISH FA CUP, LEAGUE CUP, UEFA CUP R/U.

Modibo Diakite - 26, played 83 times for serie A side Lazio. COPPA ITALIA

Andrea Dossena - 32, Played for Udinese, Napoli and Liverpool. COPPA ITALIA. ITALY 10 CAPS 0 GOALS

Steven Fletcher - Reported £12m signing from Wolves. SCOTTISH LEAGUE CUP. SCOTLAND 13 CAPS 1 GOAL

Craig Gardner - Played for both Villa and Birmingham and over 50 times for Sunderland. LEAGUE CUP

Emmanuele Giaccherini - Italian international signed from Serie A champions Juventus. 2 SCUDETTO, SUPERCOPPA, EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIPS R/U. ITALY 18 CAPS 3 GOALS

Ji Dong Won - On loan to Augsburg. SOUTH KOREA 26 CAPS 8 GOALS

Adam Johnson - Middlesbrough youth product, signed from Manchester City who he played over 70 times for. PREMIER LEAGUE, FA CUP. ENGLAND 11 CAPS 2 GOALS

Ki Sung Yueng - Played for Celtic and Swansea, on loan. SCOTTISH PREMIER LEAGUE, SCOTTISH FA CUP, OLYMPIC BRONZE MEDAL. SOUTH KOREA 55 CAPS 5 GOALS

Seb Larsson - 28, came through at Arsenal before playing nearly 200 times for Birmingham, approaching 100 appearances for Sunderland. LEAGUE CUP. SWEDEN 62 CAPS 6 GOALS

Vito Mannone - Goalkeeper, 15 senior appearances for Arsenal before signing for Sunderland.

John O''Shea - 32, another Manchester United cast-off, he played over 250 times for them. 5 PREMIER LEAGUES, 1 FA CUP, 3 LEAGUE CUP, 1 CHAMPIONS LEAGUE. IRELAND 93 CAPS 2 GOALS

Valentin Roberge - Honestly no idea, signed from Maritimo in Portugal.

David Vaughan - 30, Welsh International, played for Crewe, Real Sociedad and Blackpool. WALES 37 CAPS 1 GOAL

Keiren Westwood - Goalkeeper, strangely made 131 appearances for both former clubs Carlisle and Coventry. IRELAND 16 CAPS 0 GOALS

[TIL 1010 4,748]

Ok Warren I will attempt to keep this simple as percentages and various statistics can be used any which way you want to suit which angle you are coming from. When Hughton took over he inherited a happy ship and a squad of players who in the main had achieved back to back promotions and a far better than expected first season in the Premiership. Yes changes were required to continue and stabilise our position and progress. Of course those players that you mentioned Ward, Ayala and Tierney were struggling to adapt to the situation or had more than their fair share of injuries.There were others of course.

Poyet however took over less than four months ago a club in disarray and crisis but in that short time he has guided them to a Wembley Final. The question is do you see Norwich City doing the same in the foreseeable future ? I certainly do not hence my jealously of what Sunderland achieved last night. You have asked me more than once to put up a list of players to compare. Do you mean what Hughton inherited or what he had at 8th October when Poyet took over.

To keep it simple here is a list of players signed only last summer who played no part in last nights team at Sunderland.

Dossena

Celustka

Diakite

Roberge

El Hadji Ba

Cabral

Moberg Karlsson

Giaccherini

Mavrias

Add to that little lot the likes of Danny Graham and the Boy Blunder who have been farmed out on loan surely you agree that Poyet has worked miracles with what he was left with ?

Can you say that Hughton did the same with what he had at the end of 2011/12 ?

 

[Warren Hill 0]

You said the squads they inherited, and I know you''d love a cup final, I''m sure we all would but the club don''t take them seriously. Whether that is right or wrong is another matter entirely. But it is unimportant to the club and should Sunderland be relegated like Wigan, I''m sure they''ll feel vindicated.

You''ve listed some players, some of which have played, but surely you''re not trying to now tell me that Norwichs squad was stronger than the one Poyet inherited when Hughton took over? Really?

Poyet hasn''t worked miracles, nothing like it, but he certainly has them performing better. His record is on a par with Hughton''s in the same period, what do you think of Hughtons record?

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

Poyet however took over less than four months ago a club in disarray and crisis but in that short time he has guided them to a Wembley Final. The question is do you see Norwich City doing the same in the foreseeable future ? I certainly do not hence my jealously of what Sunderland achieved last night.

 [/quote]Good luck to them in both Cups. I hope they get to Wembley in the FA Cup as well. Cup runs don''t auger well for teams in relegation trouble as we all know to our cost. A nice day out for the fans but financial disaster for the clubs. Would Wigan swap their day out for what could now be a decade in the doldrums? That stance might not be popular with some but I think Paul Lambert would agree with me.I have no jealousy at all for what Sunderland have achieved, in fact I applaud it because it will make their task of survival all the more difficult. Poyet may well have stabilised the club and it certainly needed stabilising after the DiCanio saga but in 15 games in charge his Premier League results are no better than Hughton''s and according to many ours is a dreadful run of form.