Safestanding Survey

[Thomo 0]

City 1st,

I''d like to think that your no reasonable arguments comment is aimed at the Glastonbury comments and not the proposals made by myself.

In return, I would like to point out that the disaster in question at Ibrox was not caused by terracing itself, but by hundreds of fans falling down a steep 20 foot staircase the width of an entire block at carrow road. The exits currently available at carrow road would not need amending and the surrounding area outside carrow road is considerably larger than the when the crushes leaving carrow road in days gone happened.

Also as the standing areas would have to adhere to "the green guide" regulations we would not be implementing a standing area in something that is steep. For instance, I can''t imagine it being feasible behind the goal at Reading which I remember being particularly steep.

As for insurance, this type of standing area is already in place at some rugby grounds around the country and has even been used for planned grounds such as the new Bristol City Development, so I do not see any issues there.

What we are looking at, seated or not, is safer than current seating arrangements at many many grounds.

Whether it is implemented at all, The cost of the installation and how it is financed, how tickets are allocated or priced and how clubs get back fans they may have lost or entice a new generation of fans is ultimately down to the clubs.

Our aim here is not for the Barclay End Projekt to force David McNally in to donning a hard hat and start tearing down stands at carrow road. It is merely to show him and the board what the majority of our fans think about the standing issue and hopefully to change their mind so they are willing to put their name forward as another top tier club that WANT to be at the forefront of the issue.

For anyone who hasn''t answered the survey, please do at the address given on my original post

[Bill 1,788]

Thomoyou seem to have fallen into the usual trap of replying to something i never said, possibly because it is easier than addressing the points I did makesoGlastonbury comments were made to point out there is NO comparison with a football stadium, as was shown by the deaths being caused by steep concrete steps, whereas Glastonbury has grass. This was further backed by pointing out the huge crushes that followed games atr CR. I distinctly recall fans stumbling over, but as it was a level surface there was no consequent mass injury. Again that was dealing with the nonsense of a Glastonbury comparison rather than any future crowd problems at CR.

As to proposals they do seem muddled and seem more concerned with giving the football authorities a ''dolly drop'' so that they can knock them for six and claim they have addressed the concern. You cannot claim -"cost of the installation and how it is financed, how tickets are

allocated or priced and how clubs get back fans they may have lost or

entice a new generation of fans is ultimately down to the clubs."when your OP states -The club could potentially lower admission prices and still make a profit. (ticket prices assumed as an average £30, with a 33% reduction with standing)3000 x £30 = £90,0005200 x £20 = £104, 000We

believe the installation of the standing for this area to cost around

£250-300k, to put that in perspective we shelled out the same sum for

the goal line technology in the summer, something we''ll never make a

return on.So with a profit of £14k per match over 19 games of a premier league season.....it will be all but paid for!...and yes I do understand the difference between potentially and ultimately. But putting up flawed figures will merely allow the authorities to focus on that rather than the real point. Unfortunately the survey is being put forward on assumed basis that McNally and the board are not aware of fans feelings about this. That they receive no letters or emails on this subject and don''t speak to any single fan year upon year.I''m afraid you are gently tapping on the back door when the front door is already open. I have not met anyone who is against standing, in fact many (myself included) would welcome an return of the old style terraces. Many City fans packed on to terraces in our travels in League 1 without any major disasters. So my suggestion would be to get up to speed and find out what the boards views are on the subject, try to identify what is their sticking point and work on that - rather than over exciting folk about a battle that has long since been won.

[Thomo 0]

I''ve tried to respond to any of your concerns.If i have missed something, please give me a concise bullet pointed list of your questions and i will try to address them. As mentioned before, we also have the FSF and Safestanding roadshow involved with us. So anything I or other members of the Barclay End Projekt feel we cannot answer, we could speak to Jon at SR about.

[Unhinged Canary 375]

Why have you spelled ''Project'' in such a ridiculous fashion?It''s not big, it''s not clever and it doesn''t look ''cool''. It just looks stupid......Honestly, that loses your campaign credibility from the get-go, because it looks like it''s being organised by 12 year olds.

[Thomo 0]

Thanks for your comment, there is reasoning behind the name, it is not to look cool...."The German spelling of the name Projekt came from a respect and

admiration for the fan friendly Bundesliga. This league, the most

progressive in Europe, is built upon fan owned clubs offering supporters

affordable tickets, safe standing areas and a sense of unity and

togetherness between clubs, supporters and their communities. Rivalries

form an essential ingredient in football all over the world, and German

supporters are no different, creating colourful, atmospheric and

partisan supports in some of the most modern stadia around. However,

supporters groups and organisations in Germany have also had great

success campaigning on issues by putting their rivalries aside and

coming together to form a united front on issues which affect all

supporters, something we would like to see replicated here."

[Unhinged Canary 375]

[quote user="Thomo"]Thanks for your comment, there is reasoning behind the name, it is not to look cool...."The German spelling of the name Projekt came from a respect and

admiration for the fan friendly Bundesliga. This league, the most

progressive in Europe, is built upon fan owned clubs offering supporters

affordable tickets, safe standing areas and a sense of unity and

togetherness between clubs, supporters and their communities. Rivalries

form an essential ingredient in football all over the world, and German

supporters are no different, creating colourful, atmospheric and

partisan supports in some of the most modern stadia around. However,

supporters groups and organisations in Germany have also had great

success campaigning on issues by putting their rivalries aside and

coming together to form a united front on issues which affect all

supporters, something we would like to see replicated here."[/quote]I stand suitably corrected. My apologies.[Y]

[Henry 0]

Survey completed.

Thank you for your work Thomo. I believe as you do that many fans will return with the introduction of safe standing. Gave up my season ticket for this season for this very reason. Going to football had ceased to be fun and enjoyable. I sincerely hope this is successful although i suspect that it will be a rough and long road if it does. I agree with many of the points that City 1st states, but it would be a start to just have dialogue with the club itself to find exactly what NCFC''s viewpoint on the situation is.

[GenerationA47 752]

Survey completed. Good luck and well done

[Thomo 0]

If you haven''t already, please complete our safestanding survey, whether you are for or against standing at football, we want to see your opinion.http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/GHW98HB

[ncfcstar 292]

[quote user="City1st"][quote user="JF"]Bonkers that it''s fine for 125000 people to stand crowded together at glastobury but not at football.[/quote]errr, they are standing on grass NOT concrete terracingthere is enough space to allow folk to expand into what space they need - they are not crowded together bar the few yards at the frontthere are huge exits on three sides of the standing area

[/quote]You obviously weren''t at the Pyramid Stage when the Stones were playing this year, its was absolutely packed, as were ALL the exits.  They shut the ''arena'' down because it was so full and if ''something'' had happened during the set it would have been a disaster.

[GenerationA47 752]

Oh, and standing wasn''t introduced because of the safety issue (although it was sold to the nation on that basis) - according to politicians at the time, Taylor had not included the recommendation in the first draft of his report:

 

‘[Taylor] actually told me that the obligation to all-seater stadia had been included in his report after pressure from both the government and the Football Association. The government needed an alternative bright idea to enable it to back away from the unworkable notion of only allowing registered club members into grounds and the football authorities wanted the extra revenue which flows from seating – the extra costs can be borne by the different sort of customer it attracts.’

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

Standing in the lower Barclay sounds like an excellent idea to me. I bet the club won''t think so, though.

[......and Smith must score. 1,343]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="zemas tendon"]No point putting this op on here, to many old fuddy duddys, all areas apart from the pit or Barclay, sit there like cardboard cut outs!![/quote]Don''t forget, those old fuddy duddys were immature know-it -alls like you once zema..........[/quote][:D]

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="ncfcstar"][quote user="City1st"][quote user="JF"]Bonkers that it''s fine for 125000 people to stand crowded together at glastobury but not at football.[/quote]errr, they are standing on grass NOT concrete terracingthere is enough space to allow folk to expand into what space they need - they are not crowded together bar the few yards at the frontthere are huge exits on three sides of the standing area

[/quote]You obviously weren''t at the Pyramid Stage when the Stones were playing this year, its was absolutely packed, as were ALL the exits.  They shut the ''arena'' down because it was so full and if ''something'' had happened during the set it would have been a disaster.[/quote]I was, way up the backand have been much nearer when it was just as packed, as with way back trying to exit the Main Stage to get to the Jazz Stage when the crush was a bad as any time shuffling along Carrow Road after a game you are still avoiding the differencethere are no steps, the surface is grass not concrete and there are enormous exits on the whole of three sidesthe reverse is true with football stadia - something you seem unable to grasp