RVW LEAST TOUCHES

[Bradwell canary 112]

Just read that last week V Everton he had almost the least touches of the ball, apart from two other players in the PL.

After watching Saturdays game, he must now be the worst in the PL!

Clearly this is not his fault, he find spaces, but does not get the service he desires and needs. He must wonder at times what he has taken on.

I would like to see him, with Hooper playing just behind him.

But will that ever happen?

Only one man can answer that, but hope he has the courage to give it a try from the off, not when we fall behind.

[lappinitup 629]

We''re doomed I tell ye, doomed, DOOMED! [:''(] [:''(] [:''(]

[JF 694]

Until we set out a team that will provide the service for him it is going to continue that way, it''s no surprise that Holt felt the need to defend his corner after the critism our forwars took last year with barely scraps to feed on. Drop one of the defensive mids play the ball players and allow the players creative freedom on the pitch.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

How many touches did he have at Hull then Ken?

 

 

[Boris 62]

on last Monday Night Football show Gary Neville say that Ricky touched ball only 6 times during game with Everton who is worst record for player with 90 min for last 6 years!!!And that''s was home game lolWe must change something is visible from plane that in final 3rd we sucks big

[JF 694]

I would say he had less touches against Hull than Everton. Pure guess no evidence to back that up.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

I know. I just wondered why that was. And how many he had at Hull. I did try keeping count but kind of lost interest after a while. It soon passed 6 though. If we haven''t changed tactics from last season did Holty only used to have half a dozen touches?

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,902]

Sorry.. that was to Boris.

 

JF I would say you''re off beam. I got past 6 quite quickly. Unless my poor old eyes are failing [8-|]

 

 

[JF 694]

No, Holt would drop deep and ofton back into midfield to recieve the ball, also obviously loved to put himself about a bit. RVW very much looks to be a player that hangs on the last man looking for the through ball, when we signed him i wasnt expecting that tupe of player. Could be very effective but only if the suply line is right. There was one example v Everton of this when he was flagged offside, i thought wrongly.

[JF 694]

Didnt mean to post that stupid face!

[SYG 0]

He seems very lazy

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="JF"]No, Holt would drop deep and ofton back into midfield to recieve the ball, also obviously loved to put himself about a bit. RVW very much looks to be a player that hangs on the last man looking for the through ball, when we signed him i wasnt expecting that tupe of player. Could be very effective but only if the suply line is right. There was one example v Everton of this when he was flagged offside, i thought wrongly.[/quote]

 

Exactly JF. That''s what I have noticed too. But that''s totally different tactics to last season.

 

 

[JF 694]

It is, but only if we play this way and get the supply line right, So far this season we havn''t and I don''t think we will until we remove one of Tettey and Johnson.

[Canary02 IV 0]

We don''t play a counter-attacking game unfortunately, which makes RvW ill-suited to the style. We play an agonisingly slow build-up, usually through Snodgrass dribbling by himself for at least 30 seconds, allowing the defence to get back and get into position. We then try and fail to pick our way through the defence because there are too many to get past. Our best opportunities come when the full backs sling a long cross into the area bypassing some of the defence, a la Everton, and RvW tries to divert it in.

Welcome to the gameplan for the season. If it works 36 more times and we can keep a few clean sheets we might just stay up and CH will be proclaimed by some to be a good manager again.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

Snodgrass has only had a substitute appearance to his name this season. Hughton has lost 3 wide players to injury this season. The signings show an intent to play to RVW''s strengths.

 

 

[Warren Hill 0]

That''s very optimistic Nutty.

Our tactics seem to vary from supporter to supporter and upon whic camp (in or out) you plumped for last season when we had completely different personnel.

My personal view of Saturday was that our "painfully slow" build up was forced on us by the discipline shown by the Hull defensive lines. With us playing side to side and sometimes backwards, retaining possession trying to draw them out to create the space to play in around the box. Last week we scored a goal by one player, a full back, carrying the ball, shooting and following up to score. Not sure how painful that was or how slow with zero passes involved in the direct approach.

We all see different games of course, on here Tettey and Garrido have come in for plenty of criticism where I didn''t think they did much wrong. I described Redmond in another thread as becoming increasingly ineffective, others found his substitution mystifying. So, we all see different games and of course some will only see what their subconscious allows or what their deep-held prior opinions suggest they should.

[Canary02 IV 0]

But Nige, that''s not been backed up by the tactics. Even with Benno in place of Snoddy against Everton when he could have used pace on both wings and RvW to counter attack a team that was bringing the game to us, we played out slowly from the back every time. When we won the ball in midfield we didn''t use the space in behind their defence but played it sideways or back and slowly progressed up the pitch. You can add fast players to the team but if your quick players have no space to run into their pace is neutralised.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

Yet we scored 2 goals against Everton. How many did you expect us to score? I thought we played better against Everton than we did last season. What did you think Canary? Don''t get too bogged down with stats. Say what you see.

 

[Canary02 IV 0]

I think we were fortunate to score twice, although the way we defended against a territorially dominant Everton team was probably enough for us to deserve a point.

In terms of statistics, I haven''t mentioned any, so I''m not sure what you mean. What I see is a team that progresses very slowly and therefore has to thread a perfect ball through a packed defence to give RvW the supply he would like. That''s unlikely to happen very often.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

See that''s what I don''t get on here Canary. Whenever we achieve something we are fortunate. "We got lucky goals. The team we beat were on the beach. If the other team hadn''t missed chances we would have been buried." It''s the complete opposite to the criticism often aimed at me that I wear yellow & green glasses.

 

RVW should really be on 2/2 because he perhaps should have buried that quality cross from Garrido. He has a real talent for finding a yard of space where others can''t. They look free headers but that''s down to his quality rather than poor defending. If there was ever a time to look for positives then 2 games into a new season is it.

 

 

[Canary02 IV 0]

I''m not downplaying RvW''s quality at all Nige. Considering how little he''s been involved he''s done superbly. Without the movement you mention he would have been involved even less and the fact that he''s scored once and been close on two more occasions are testament to his ability rather than a criticism. What I''m concerned about is that we''re not playing to his strengths. If he could get better service imagine how many goals someone as sharp as he is could get.

In terms of being lucky to score twice, I base that on how few chances we had and the fact that Whitt''s cross to RvW was a mishit shot which fell very fortuitously.

I can''t accept the "second game of the season" excuse though. It''s game 40 for Hughton, and he''s had three transfer windows and 2 full preseasons to adapt a playing style that has been rickety at best throughout.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

It''s not game 40 for this season though is it. It''s 2 games. Otherwise so far this season we''ve beaten Man Utd, Man City and Arsenal so I can''t understand what all the fuss is about. Unless it''s because our shiny new forwards have only scored one goal between them in 40 games....

 

 

 

 

[Canary02 IV 0]

But we''ve acquired these shiny new forwards and then play the same style we had last season which gifted us 3 wins in the last 20 odd games. That style doesn''t suit RvW any more than it did Grant Holt (and probably suits him even less).

Are we saying that to play in the same style as last season is a virtue? That we should persist with something that obviously isn''t working and say nothing just because there are only 2 games on the board this season? The style hasn''t altered at all in between campaigns despite the change of some personnel so I think it''s logical to draw comparisons that reach back to last season.

[Canary02 IV 0]

I also think your point about the teams we have beaten is equally telling. CH''s system is far better suited to taking on big teams and a lot of our points were picked up against the top half sides. It''s when we have to take the initiative and be progressive that we struggle. That''s already being borne out this season again.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

We can''t possibly be playing the same style as last season because Holt and RVW are very different players. And in any case we played many different styles and systems last season including 2 up front. Sometimes we played Johnson and Tettey and sometimes just one of them. But if you''re saying that we played a disciplined game last season keeping a very tight unit then I''d agree. I also don''t think that is a bad thing.

 

 

[Canary02 IV 0]

Holt and RvW are very different players and so I agree that we shouldn''t be paying the same system but regrettably we pretty much are which is kind of my point and why it''s looking so disappointing right now. The only noticeable difference is that we can''t use Holt''s height so we''re not slinging long balls up quite as much, but all that means is RvW sees even less of the ball than Holty did, and the attacks are developing even more slowly.

2 up front and different style''s and systems, is where I have to differ. We did that early in the season to a limited extent but post Christmas it was either Holt or Kamara as the one up front but never both, and 4-2-3-1 regardless of situation. His inability to adapt that or adapt the movement of players within the system regardless of situation is another reason that CH is questioned all the time.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

I think we''ll have to agree to disagree and see what transpires. I do think this is game 2 and not game 40 though. And I think it''s on this season that the team and manager should be judged.

 

 

[Canary02 IV 0]

Fair enough, agree to disagree. Nice to have a difference of opinion and it not to descend into childishness on this board. And I genuinely hope you''re right and Hughton comes good and we have a good season.

OTBC

[nutty nigel 7,902]

LOL.. it happens more often than you think! It''s just some people won''t leave it there and kick off with insults. Let''s revisit at the end of October. 10 games is often a pointer. Last had 10 points after having only 3 after 6 games. And the season carried on like that.