Realistic - who exactly IS being realistic?!!!

[chicken 0]

Like most of you I come on here now and then and see what comments are bounding about and what accusations and rumours are being made.

It has to be said that I am getting very upset with some of the attitudes at the moment.

People are suggesting we sell half the team because we will get relegated anyway. We have twenty-something players. If you suggest selling or releasing any more than four players you are looking at a crippled team.

Others are suggesting that their is no doubt in the fact we will avoid relegation. A nice point of view to take but lets face it right now the odds are not in our favour. We have at best a 50-50 chance of premiership survival.

Now I am not trying to take the wind out of anyones sales but it is about time it is addressed properly.

This season has been a learning experience for many of the players at the club. Huckerby and Eddie look reasonably at home in the Prem and there should be no surprises there really. Green is good enough as is Drury, Francis, Ashton, Jarvis, Crowe, Holt and Brennan. By this I mean they are able to cope and play a part in a game. They may be squad players or first teamers but I think they are all capable of that level of play as are most of the other players at the club.

I think that Worthy has now cut his teeth in the premiership. The club along with the team have learnt many valuable lessons. Lets just take the fact that many of the people now running the club have not had the premiership experience before now.

Why are we different to WBA? Because you look at the money that that club has spent on transfers and look at where they are. We lost out on Hulse and a few other players like Scimica etc. Are you really gutted now? We got in Francis and Huckerby. Lets face it, we have had the better signings even though we have signed half as many players. They have money and spend it although they get little out of it. Chrystal Palace have the problem of little money and a squad size that they cannot afford. Their approach does not seem to be long-term. If they stay up, and thats a big if, they are looking at a huge task to stay up again.

So I think our position is good. We dont have wasters like Kanu eating up a huge wage. Mulryne and McVeigh, for those of you that doubt them, probably dont earn as much combined as he does..

Next season we ought to let some of our youngsters come through. Hendo needs a loan spell to get some of that confidence that has been taken away from him by the moaners and boo-ers at matches. Jarvis and Crowe just need loans to get some first team football under their belts. We know Jarvis can do it, his shot against Liverpool was magic.

If we go down we need to look at re-structuring the team, not because they are "all useless" but because some are getting on a bit! We need experience no doubt but I would like to see some younger players come in to fill the voids.

Shackell needs to be given an extended run in the first team to see if he is really up to it. From what I have seen I am more than confident that he can make that level. I would like to see another two young defenders come in. One for right back and one at centre back. We need speedy full-backs that are capable of helping the attack when we need it. Then I would like some sort of winger on either side. Jonson is good but again we dont have a younger understudy for him nor do we really have an out-and-out left winger. Brennan is good but is more of a defencive player great for a 3-5-2.

Otherwise on the bigger picture this club is doing well. If we go down, and yes it is still undercided and still worth cheering/fighting for, then we can at least be satisfied that one big spending threat will be out of the picture in Wigan. We know all about the other clubs and how we can beat them all.

Worthy has learnt his lessons and I am sure that he knows that the next area to strengthen is the defence. Stop the leaking

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

Excellent post there Chicken.  A very positive and accurate outlook. I think you''re exactly right when you say this year has been a learning experience.  We can''t expect miracles.  Hopefully we are now on the right path.  This is thanks wholely IMO to Worthy.  The guy has worked wonders.  I think you are spot on about next year if we were to go down.  We won''t have the finances to have a Premiership size squad.  This means that players like Shacks, Jarvis, Crow etc will need to be given a go. 

[Meeky 0]

Excellent.

Probably one of the best posts I have read on this board.

And before you knew that Crowe has gone to Northampton on a months loan as well!

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]Like most of you I come on here now and then and see what comments are bounding about and what accusations and rumours are being made. It has to be said that I am getting very upset with some of the ...[/quote]

I don''t think they''re listening Chicken, but good on you for saying it.

[chicken 0]

I''d just like to add I like the look of Derbys Idiakis. Looks quality to me. A midfield playmaker! Is that the final piece in the puzzel, I hope so!!!!

Otherwise thanks guys!

[Ayrton Twigge 0]

Spot on Chicken.

Last August when we were heading into the great unknown, this outcome was what many of us anticipated. I think you have clearly articulated that there are many reasons to be cheerful.

[LinkNR9 0]

Chicken, I don''t think that Worthy has learned any lessons; otherwise, he''d have changed the defence around a few games ago, given McVeigh a run in the side and played the Huckster at left wing (cow/ars*/banjo, etc.), etc. 

[StevenageFan 0]

Link,  Hux has been played at left wing most of the season and not produced much, we have created more goal scoring chances since he was put up front with Ashton.

[Temp the Revelator 0]

McVeigh?  You are kidding, right?

[chicken 0]

Link. You have proved my point exactly. Another crazy and unrealistic suggestion.

Change our defence? Who with? People said drop Duke Box and play Charlton there. Worthy did and it worked. Now he is injured the music is back on. Thats how football teams work. I really dont see that he has many options in defence at all unless he uses Shackell which isnt such a bad idea if nothing else is working. I seem to remember him wanting a clean sheet last weekend . . . . . .

As for McVeigh, he obviously isnt pulling weight and Worthy is getting fed up with him. It was the same situation when Nigel took over. He was a nothing player signed for nothing because Totenham couldnt see the value in him. Yes a great strike agains the Man U but one goal doesnt make you great. He has had his chances to prove himself this season and hasnt overly impressed. He has been bettere recently when coming off the bench but I think there is defenitely a reason for him not being played.

As for playing him out wide, well lets just say if it is strength and defencive tightness that we need then Brennan is the more obvious choice.

As for learning, ofcourse he has learnt. I think that people have to get realistic with their attitudes. Change the deffence is the cry. But how many fit defenders do we have? At the moment by my estimations we have five or six including Shackell. How many combinations can you make out of those players - not many unless you want to play defenders out of position.

[StevenageFan 0]

Chicken I think Flemming dropped and Shackell given a try is all most of us would like to see, not much else really.

Also Helveg should be back soon, so him for Flem would also be a welcome change.

[Ayrton Twigge 0]

Well said again Chicken.

In a world of Championship Manager, its so easy to just shuffle your pack. And if it doesn''t come off, well, so what.

But in the real world, its a different matter.

Here''s a way of focussing on realism. Imagine you had to stake £50 on the best defensive combination we have to keep a clean sheet, ie you lose £50 if a goal goes in. Who would YOU pick?

Now up the stake tenfold to £500. An amount you couldn''t afford to lose. Now who are you going to pick. Same guys - or not. Still want to put Shackell in there? I wonder.

You''ll do what Worthy''s been doing. You''ll use your tried and tested players, warts and all.

And in the real world the stakes are very, very, high.

[StevenageFan 0]

Ayrton, I don''t get what you are trying to say?

Tried and tested at the moment = worst premiership defensive record at present = you lose £500 a week anyway.   Therefore why not try someone else, if you lose, so what at least you lost trying instead of losing with the same set up.

[TheMarshmallowMan 0]

[quote]Like most of you I come on here now and then and see what comments are bounding about and what accusations and rumours are being made. It has to be said that I am getting very upset with some of the ...[/quote]

Good post Chicken, but I don''t entirely agree with it.

You say that Brennan and Holt are good enough for this division. Personally, I''m not entirely sure. Brennan''s a good player, but I think I prefer to have Hucks in left wing, with McKenzie up front. McKenzie grafts for everything, and I''m positive he''d create the chances up front Ashton needs to score.

Huckerby also creates chances, but I think he creates more chances down the left than up front. Something tells me that McKenzie up front offers better options than Huckerby up front. However, Huckerby on the left poses a real defensive frailty, due to Huckerby''s lack of defensive abilities. Perhaps Huckerby up front is the "middle ground" Worthy seeks, keeping one of our most influential players in, but patching up our defence with - for instance - Brennan.

Concerning McVeigh, I think McVeigh is a good squad player. He can play all over the park, and can put in some good performances. But I don''t think he''s a regular first team player. Assuming that the left wing position is naturally taken by Huckerby, Stuart, Bentley or Brennan, he''s competiting with Jonson and Bentley (assuming he doesn''t take the left wing role, which he hasn''t done for a while) for his position. Personally, I think he''s a useful player to throw on at half time just to see what he can achieve. Against Man Utd, it resulted in a goal. He also put a good performance against Boro. I would like to see him kept at the club, as as a squad player, he seems t add to the squad.

Brennan is another player who I doubt has Premiership quality. His defensive nature is obviously beneficial to us considering Huckerby''s frailties, but I have yet to see him produce anything I felt earnt him his spot. Personally, I''d like to see Stuart given his spot, as I think he could do a good job distributing the ball down the left for Huckerby to latch, and create the chances for Ashton.

Defensively, I think the following defensive line up could solve our problems:

Helveg Doc Charlie Drury

Helveg is a strong player, with the ability to hold up the ball and make crucial tackles under pressure, the Doc has the height and strength to go toe to toe with the strong strikers like the Nistelrooys and Shearers, Charlton has the ability to mark the skillful strikers like Henry and Kluivert, and Drury has the ability going forward, with excellent distribution.

This does mean dropping Fleming. He''s been a great servant, but I do think - with everyone fit - that defence is our best. I do agree, however, that should we be relegated, Shack should be given a good run out in the first team, or even loaned out if we don''t have the space for him. 

[Tumbleweed 106]

In the real world where the stakes are high and something is not working, you change it. In football its really quite simple: if every match you concede more goals than you score you won''t get a single point. So now that our defence is the worst in the division, it just has to be changed. There is little difference between losing 2-0 and 3-0, but a whole world of difference between losing 2-0 and drawing 1-1