Back by popular demand - the 2013 Relegation Mini League(tm)

[Mister Chops 7]

The twelve-game mini league is back, with the current table as follows:  too early to mean anything, but it makes me feel good about not being a QPR fan.

Team	Played	Points
Swansea	3	4
Southampton	2	3
Aston Villa	1	3
Wigan	1	3
Norwich City	1	1
QPR	2	1
Reading	1	1

Fixtures look as follows - read left to right for the home team, top down for the away team.  Home team''s score is first.

	Norwich City	QPR	Reading	Southampton	Aston Villa	Wigan	Swansea
Norwich City	X	1-1	20/04/2013	09/03/2013	04/05/2013	15/12/2012	06/04/2013
QPR	02/02/2013	X	04/11/2012	17/11/2012	01/12/2012	06/04/2013	0-5
Reading	10/11/2012	27/04/2013	X	06/04/2013	23/02/2013	09/03/2013	26/12/2012
Southampton	28/11/2012	02/03/2013	08/12/2012	X	4-1	0-2	10/11/2012
Aston Villa	27/10/2012	16/03/2013	27/11/2012	12/01/2013	X	29/12/2012	2-0
Wigan	30/03/2013	08/12/2012	24/11/2012	02/02/2013	19/05/2013	X	13/04/2013
Swansea	08/12/2012	09/02/2013	2-2	20/04/2013	01/01/2013	20/10/2012	X

Trust all is clear [Y]

[Gingerpele 0]

Thanks Chops.

Its good to know that despite all the worrying, we''ve only played one side that is in danger of relegation currently.

West Ham could be drawn in, if they lose Carroll for a long time.

What is slightly worrying, is we only play one of those teams this calendar year at home. Our next few home games are Arsenal, Stoke, Man.U, Sunderland and Wigan. Really we NEED to win two of those. But it all depends on how well we can play against Stoke. But then again, we do often look just as good away from home, so Villa, Reading and Southampton away are also very winnable games.

How many games do you think we will win, and need to win by Xmas?

[Jacko 0]

Crikey if both ourselves and Villa are in the mix at the end of the season that game at Carrow Road is enormous on so many levels.

[lake district canary 0]

        The    "mini league"............pah! 

The points that helped keep us up last season were against teams including  Tottenham, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool.   If we stay up this season it will be because we take points of any team in the division not just relegation rivals.   If we don''t get any points off the teams I just mentioned we won''t stay up..........oh hang on we got a point at Tottenham already............that''s a start.        

[ZLF 274]

Bring it on Mr. C. Good to give the "happy clappers" something to show they enjoy a moan too

Can we expand it? 12 games gives a max36 points which is not enough

[nutty nigel 7,598]

Well I guess we could expand it to a 38 game league Zip....

 

I like Baker''s stats. What about expanding it to "the rest" but also show a league where "the rest" play "the best".

 

 

[Mister Chops 7]

“We said this at the start. Realistically there are going to be eight teams that fight it out and it’s almost can you win that mini-league, because if you do then you’ll be alright,” he said. “I’d take this position we are in now come the end of the season. The Liverpool’s and Stoke’s may pull out of it, but the rest will be battling against themselves and those are the games that will decide your season.” Russell Martin, Pink Un October 24th 2012 Team Played Points Swansea 4 7 Southampton 2 3 Aston Villa 1 3 Wigan 1 3 Norwich City 1 1 QPR 2 1 Reading 1 1
		Norwich City	QPR	Reading	Southampton	Aston Villa	Wigan	Swansea
	Norwich City	X	1-1	20/04/2013	09/03/2013	04/05/2013	15/12/2012	06/04/2013
	QPR	02/02/2013	X	04/11/2012	17/11/2012	01/12/2012	06/04/2013	0-5
	Reading	10/11/2012	27/04/2013	X	06/04/2013	23/02/2013	09/03/2013	26/12/2012
	Southampton	28/11/2012	02/03/2013	08/12/2012	X	4-1	0-2	10/11/2012
	Aston Villa	27/10/2012	16/03/2013	27/11/2012	12/01/2013	X	29/12/2012	2-0
	Wigan	30/03/2013	08/12/2012	24/11/2012	02/02/2013	19/05/2013	X	13/04/2013
	Swansea	08/12/2012	09/02/2013	2-2	20/04/2013	01/01/2013	2-1	X

[Redders Right Foot 22]

Only team I''m slightly worried about is swansea, but I expect them to hit a wall in the next month or so. but as is said more than enough already this season ''This is the Prem. anything can happen.''

[Bill 1,788]

that is excellent Mr Choppo, saves all that looking at league tables stuff

 

I mean league tables are so ....... last saturday evening

 

so hurray for the nerds, now they can join in

 

 

 

 

now where did I put that list of number of throw ins on the right half side of the pitch in their half, over the last 45 mins .......... compared to the previous home games ?

 

ah yes, under my Ribena carton

 

 

[Gingerpele 0]

City1st, if you don''t like it, go away.

People find this useful, our own Russell Martin as quoted by Chops has spoken about the mini league (not this one in particular).

Every Sport (that I know of) is full of stats, you don''t have to like it, but accept it. Its not going to change.

[dpit 1]

Well City 1st given that you would have us believe that we shouldn''t be in this league if we don''t get to 15 points by the mid point of the season, we might not need the mini league by then anyway.

[Bill 1,788]

"Every Sport (that I know of) is full of stats, you don''t have to like it, but accept it. Its not going to change"

 

 

 

Likewise every forum is full of comment, you don''t have to like them, but accept it, it''s not going the change

[Gingerpele 0]

Ok then, so you now have to accept my comment and the stats, I win. :P

[lake district canary 0]

The mini-league is precisely why people got so wound up about the "importance" of the home game to Blackburn last season.   It was billed on here as a "relegation decider" - at the end of October!!    We simply had to win that game to stand any chance of surviving, apparently.  But how many points did we take off Blackburn last season? One.  Did it lead to our relegation?  No.  How many points did we take off Spurs?  Three.  Did that helps us stay up? Yes. 

Of course these games against lower teams are important - but the danger of harping on about the "mini-league" is that too many people start to over estimate the importance of it.    Yes, beating near rivals is important - of course it is - but picking up points anywhere is just as important.   We may even beat a top six side this season..........you never know......oh wait a minute..............

Stats tell you that if you win the "mini-league you will stay up".  That''s like saying "if you get enough points you will stay up" because what the stats don''t say - or take into account - is the points that you may pick up from other teams.      Its bonkers. 

[Koreacanary 0]

I hearby retract any positive statements I made about Mister Chops following his posting of the relegation mini-league.

[Downloads 35]

Honestly LDC I expect better of you, there are some really grumpy gits on this forum.

 

How about a little live and let live.

 

It all looks fun to me and is a talking point. It isn''t gospel, but its a talking point.

[ZLF 274]

[quote user="lake district canary"]The mini-league is precisely why people got so wound up about the "importance" of the home game to Blackburn last season.   It was billed on here as a "relegation decider" - at the end of October!!    We simply had to win that game to stand any chance of surviving, apparently.  But how many points did we take off Blackburn last season? One.  Did it lead to our relegation?  No.  How many points did we take off Spurs?  Three.  Did that helps us stay up? Yes. 



Of course these games against lower teams are important - but the danger of harping on about the "mini-league" is that too many people start to over estimate the importance of it.    Yes, beating near rivals is important - of course it is - but picking up points anywhere is just as important.   We may even beat a top six side this season..........you never know......oh wait a minute..............



Stats tell you that if you win the "mini-league you will stay up".  That''s like saying "if you get enough points you will stay up" because what the stats don''t say - or take into account - is the points that you may pick up from other teams.      Its bonkers. 



[/quote]

 

Thanks LDC for confirming my earlier post [;)]    As others have said - dont read if you dont like and leave the viewing to those who are interested without clogging up the thread with negativity [;)]  

 

It is useful context to show that we still have good opportunities to pick up points against weaker teams,  so sitting 15th right now in that context is a good thing to know.  

 

Of course we will pick up other points from teams not highlighted here,  and of course finishing top guarantees nothing,  but finishing bottom would be a worry.

 

Out of interest who were the bottom three in last years mini-league - was there any correlation with the three actually relegated?  

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="Downloads"]

Honestly LDC I expect better of you, there are some really grumpy gits on this forum.  How about a little live and let live.It all looks fun to me and is a talking point. It isn''t gospel, but its a talking point.

[/quote]

Live and let live I agree with, which is why I should be able to comment on something I find absurd.  If I could be bothered I would start a thread about other clubs records against the clubs at the top, or likely to be at the top at the end of the season.   We have only played four of those and have four points already - Spurs 1, Arsenal 3.   And its only the end of October.    We only got six points the whole of last  season against these clubs.  However,  The relevance of that is probably just as futile as a relegation mini-league.   The truth is its a league of  20 clubs and every game has to be fought at the same level - to win points.  Points mean prizes.    Grumpy I may be, but me - and City 1st by the looks of things - feel strongly about seeing something that actually is focusing on just a few clubs who may or may not be near the bottom come May.    All last season I - and others - kept saying - why are we focusing on the bottom of the table all the time?   There was never any suggestion that we were relegation fodder - we had a fantastic positive and competitive manager/team - the evidence was there that we would be competitive.......................and the relegation mini-league thread eventually disappeared under the weight of its own lack of credibility. I trust this season will be the same.

[dpit 1]

"Ok then, so you now have to accept my comment and the stats, I win. :P"

Now GP you know better than to claim victory over City 1st. He will prove his omnipotence by outing you as a Binner and the debate will be over.

[Downloads 35]

Commenting is one thing, you are beyond commenting, you''ve taken it from one year to the next - Rubbishing someone elses opinion (Smudgeresque), hence the live and let live. You''ve made it clear how you feel, can''t you let the people who enjoy it... just enjoy it?  That was the type of person I had you down as, not grouped in with City1st who I admire the positivity of, but the browbeating he does isn''t impressive.

 

For the record I strictly agree with your opinion completely on the relevance, but that doesn''t mean I don''t enjoy giving the relegation mini league a look too.

 

I''m an analyst by trade and any stats to me are fun as long as they are factual.

 

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="Downloads"] 

I''m an analyst by trade and any stats to me are fun as long as they are factual.

[/quote]

That''s fair enough - and I won''t comment on this thread again.  I suppose I like to enjoy  coming on here without seeing this  thread popping up every week - mainly because I don''t see the point in people harping on about a relegation battle every week, when there are points to be won against teams like.....well.....Arsenal.

I take your point about stats and I know people like them.   I don''t on the whole like stats because they can be - and quite often are -  manipulated to say something that takes away from the truth  rather than add to it.

[Mister Chops 7]

I think Russell Martin understands football more than those who say this is a waste of time.That is all.

[Mister Chops 7]

Team	Played	Points
Swansea	4	7
Aston Villa	3	4
Southampton	2	3
Wigan	2	3
Norwich City	2	2
QPR	2	1
Reading	1	1

Today doesn''t really make much difference but it certainly feels like we dropped two points against the worst Villa side I think I have ever seen - though to be fair I didn''t see the Alec McLeish era.QPR v  Reading next week, Reading v Norwich the week after (and Southampton v Swansea).  QPR v Southampton the week after that.  Blink and you will literally miss something.

		AWAY
		Norwich City	QPR	Reading	Southampton	Aston Villa	Wigan	Swansea
HOME	Norwich City	X	1-1	20/04/2013	09/03/2013	04/05/2013	15/12/2012	06/04/2013
	QPR	02/02/2013	X	04/11/2012	17/11/2012	01/12/2012	06/04/2013	0-5
	Reading	10/11/2012	27/04/2013	X	06/04/2013	23/02/2013	09/03/2013	26/12/2012
	Southampton	28/11/2012	02/03/2013	08/12/2012	X	4-1	0-2	10/11/2012
	Aston Villa	1-1	16/03/2013	27/11/2012	12/01/2013	X	29/12/2012	2-0
	Wigan	30/03/2013	08/12/2012	24/11/2012	02/02/2013	19/05/2013	X	13/04/2013
	Swansea	08/12/2012	09/02/2013	2-2	20/04/2013	01/01/2013	2-1	X

[Mister Chops 7]

Winger Anthony Pilkington agreed that taking points off the teams below you was the best way to keep them at arm’s length.

“At

the start of the season you look at these games and you hope to pick up

as many points as you can from the teams you think may be in and around

you come the end of the season,” he said.

“They’re really important – points against the likes of Spurs and Arsenal, they’re bonuses.”

[Bill 1,788]

"Winger Anthony Pilkington agreed that the best way of taking points off the teams below you was to keep counting the points"

 

 

ps this pile of worthless bollox has already fallen apart as it includes Wigan and Swansea, but does not have Sunderland and Stoke who are in the bottom seven

 

 

[Mister Chops 7]

"you hope to pick up

as many points as you can from the teams you think may be in and around

you come the end of the season,” he said.Emphasis added for the dim-witted amongst us.

[Bill 1,788]

so it is no more than conjecture on your part, something I''m sure even those you refer to as dimwitted can see - as you cannot know who may "be in and around you come the end of the season"

 

you may also note the words "in and around you" .......... NOT  in and around the relegation places, a misleading twist that your buffoonery has rather curiously added

 

it might also be worth noting that this time last year those in that bottom seven "in and around"  the relegation places included West Brom, Sunderland, Fulham and Everton, none of whom finished in the final bottom seven

 

which suggests that your nonsense is no more than a wish by you to see Norwich City associated with a relegation battle

 

hmmmm ?

 

 

 

 

[Gingerpele 0]

Cty1st were not talking about this time of the season. It''s quite simple. Sunderland have a very good manager, they finished top half last season and bought a competent striker, as you said they and Everton were low down at this point last season. Do you need reminding where they finished?

It''s not about who is in these positions after 10 games, it''s about who''s in these positions at the end of the season. Us and Swans may have finished 11th and 12th but the general opinion is the league is tougher this year. Some tams don''t have great starts, some teams that have had good starts will fade badly. If you are really that ignorant them just ignore this thread and the now multiple Norwich players who have spoken about the importance of beating teams who are below us, were below us last season and we need to be below us come the end of the season. It''s very very simple.

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="City1st"]

so it is no more than conjecture on your part, something I''m sure even those you refer to as dimwitted can see - as you cannot know who may "be in and around you come the end of the season"

 

you may also note the words "in and around you" .......... NOT  in and around the relegation places, a misleading twist that your buffoonery has rather curiously added

 

it might also be worth noting that this time last year those in that bottom seven "in and around"  the relegation places included West Brom, Sunderland, Fulham and Everton, none of whom finished in the final bottom seven

 

which suggests that your nonsense is no more than a wish by you to see Norwich City associated with a relegation battle

 

hmmmm ?

 

[/quote]

Amazing self-control by City1st.......stopping just short of calling Mister Chops a binner. I wonder if that required a couple of Valium pills?

[Gingerpele 0]

Reading that post again City1st, if you really believe that last bit, I''d say that suggests your nonsense is no more than you wanting to have a go at Norwich fans for fun.

You are a Norwich fan right? You obviously don''t have to agree with everyone else, you''ve given your opinion, you''ve been told why many don''t agree with you, repeating your self won''t change anyone''s mind. Two Norwich players recent have talked about the importance of this kind of thinking.

I''m fairly sure pundits do the same, and as much as we like to ridicule them, they do know what they are talking about, they are fans like us to just as entitled to an opinion, they also played football and are now being paid to give their opinion. Again you don''t have to agree with them on anything at all, but here and now no one apart from LDC is on your side. You don''t like this, just ignore it, it''s easy to avoid clicking on this thread. We all know what you meant by your hmmmmm at th end of that post, it''s just un called for. Suggesting anyone who doesn''t look at everything as if its all perfect is an Ipsoch fan is silly...