Kevin Beattie, benefits cheat

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

All valid points Jim. But his plight shows up the shortcomings of that grubby little suffolk club. Where as £250,000 can find it''s way into the Newcastle underworld for fat boy Chopra nothing can be found to help out a club legend.

 

 

 

[/quote]

 

Oh come on Nutty. I know we dislike the Binners, but I really do not see what this matter has to do with Ipswich Town FC, Chopra, or the Geordie bad-boys. Beattie is not an employee of ITFC. He was, but it was years ago, and whether he is better than the current squad at Poorman Rd is neither here nor there.

 

Fair play to Indy for his rethink. Times have indeed changed for top players, but, ultimately there''s always an opportunity for any of us to fall on hard times or cock things up. Definitely a case of "there but for the grace of God "....etc

[Miss Jane Marple 0]

My dears, I am reminded of this pertinent saying:When you point the finger there are three fingers pointing back at you. I would say this means those people who are fond of pointing out flaws in other people do so because they really have flaws themselves and don''t like them. A lot of people who put

others down do it to make themselves feel better.A tragic event that serves to remind those of you still working that you are only a pay day away from financial trouble.

[Womens Aid 0]

Many things are far closer to home than we would like to think.Sometimes being removed from the home for a night in the cells is what is needed to stop further harm.

[Google Bot 3,395]

Good point made by Nutty, and fair play to Indy for his post.

In order to get it into my head on whether our glorious club would support an ex player of his magnitude.

Who of our legends would he be akin to? Someone like Gossy?

[Indy_Bones 442]

[quote user="Skijumptoes"]Who of our legends would he be akin to? Someone like Gossy?[/quote]More like Stringer or Paddon than Gossy if you ask me due to the era''s.Almost any great player we had for a few years, from the early 70''s to late 80''s could arguably fit in here though.

[nutty nigel 7,686]

[quote user="Eric Pickles Pie Supplier"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

All valid points Jim. But his plight shows up the shortcomings of that grubby little suffolk club. Where as £250,000 can find it''s way into the Newcastle underworld for fat boy Chopra nothing can be found to help out a club legend.

 

 

 

[/quote]

 

Oh come on Nutty. I know we dislike the Binners, but I really do not see what this matter has to do with Ipswich Town FC, Chopra, or the Geordie bad-boys. Beattie is not an employee of ITFC. He was, but it was years ago, and whether he is better than the current squad at Poorman Rd is neither here nor there.

 

Fair play to Indy for his rethink. Times have indeed changed for top players, but, ultimately there''s always an opportunity for any of us to fall on hard times or cock things up. Definitely a case of "there but for the grace of God "....etc

[/quote]

 

Because Southampton fans, and some Norwich fans, possibly Luton and Chester too, showed how it should be done. If a player this great can fall on hard times it can happen to anyone : -

 

http://www.giveittoron.co.uk/

 

If you have the time watch the vid.

 

 

 

 

[Andy Larkin 15]

Well this thread has suprised me in the direction it has taken… and I am chuffed by that.Like a couple of others I have direct experience of a family member caring for another. This is an incredible burden on the carer and they get paid a pittance for doing so (as in allowances and benefits etc) considering what the cost would be if they simply washed their hands on their relative and left the state to sort it out.Yes, he did wrong… and for that he''s been punished (rightly or wrongly is for you to decide), but I wouldn''t imagine the thought of what he should or shouldn''t declare rated highly on the list of stuff he had to worry about.As someone else said, there but for the grace of god (or whatever your belief system) goes us all… and a bit of compassion to someone that has obviously got a lot on his plate doesn''t cost a bean. I fear that a good number of us might find ourselves in tight spots in the coming years… and who knows how things can turn out when you get desperately short of cash?Agreed, Ip5w1ch could''ve done something to help out, assuming they knew the full extent of his circumstances - however I''m not so sure Kevin Beattie would necessarily take it even if they did offer. I met the bloke once when I was photographing an event at Poorman Road… he seemed a decent sort.So… well done those that saw past the blue and white bit… it''s got little to do with that lot down the road and more to do with the imbalances of society per se. Once Vodafone and Amazon cough what they owe (morally, not legally), then maybe we can start to address the ''Kevin Beatie''s'' of the country.And finish… twopenneth worth spent.

[nutty nigel 7,686]

It has to do with what that lot down the road could have done Andy. Beattie''s circumstances weren''t a secret. It''s not like he had a roofing job in America........

 

 

[Andy Larkin 15]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

It has to do with what that lot down the road could have done Andy. Beattie''s circumstances weren''t a secret. It''s not like he had a roofing job in America........

[/quote]Like I said NN, not that he would necessarily have taken it though… its difficult to know unless you''re KB himself isn''t it?

[ricky knight 0]

He may have been a scummer but what a player he was in his day, sad to see its come to fiddling a few quid just shows the difference from then to modern day players, cant ever see Rooney on the rock n roll.

[Webbo118 0]

I feel desperately sorry for the guy and have to ask this question - is all well with a Society that is very willing to bring the full weight of the law down on an easy target whilst allowing very rich people (including civil servants) to avoid paying tax by exploiting loopholes such as overseas tax havens and the utilisation of limited companies for receipt of their pay?   

[Webbo118 0]

[quote user="Webbo118"]I feel desperately sorry for the guy and have to ask this question - is all well with a Society that is very willing to bring the full weight of the law down on an easy target whilst allowing very rich people (including civil servants) to avoid paying tax by exploiting loopholes such as overseas tax havens and the utilisation of limited companies for receipt of their pay?   [/quote]

And don''t get me started on M.P.s'' expenses and various Governments'' relationships with the media.  

[lake district canary 0]

While Beattie won''t have been on the mega bucks modern players are now, wages were pretty good relative to most professions even in the seventies.  He would have been on decent money.  His chief problem over the years has been that what money he did have - he spent - not necessarily on things that would help his future.     I think there is a message there for all of us.

 

 

 

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

It has to do with what that lot down the road could have done Andy. Beattie''s circumstances weren''t a secret. It''s not like he had a roofing job in America........

 

 

[/quote]

 

Sorry, Nutty. Despite what you say (and the link) , I really do not see what this has to do with ITFC, per se . If you hit on hard times, would you expect some company that employed you 40 yrs ago to come riding to the rescue ? I think not. So why should it be any different for KB ?  Whether they were right to bail out Chopra is another matter that''s been discussed on here before, but the whole Beattie story has nothing whatsoever to do with it .

[Bill 1,788]

I''m afraid this has an awful lot to do with ITFC, a club that makes so much of it''s ''glorious history''. That was happy to indulge in Princess Diana style grief and adulation over a former manager but appears to have little interest in on of his protege''s and stars. Beattie was not a bit part player in their ''glorious history'', he was one of the leading lights.Whether clubs have a moral duty of care towards former players I don''t know, but when it is a club that spends most of time bleating about it being a family club then perhaps they should put their money where their mouth is in this case. It doesn''t appear this chap is someone who knows how to ''play the system'', he wouldn''t be in a council house in the arse end of Ipswich if he was. Nor would he be doing a bit of radio work for less than a days pay in MacDonalds is he was. It all smacks too much of making an example of a ''celebrity''.But what has been most sickening has been the hideous number of binners who have been queueing up in some Daily Mail style self righteous rant against him - something that was markedly absent when their grubby little club was stealing nearly from £5m from the Inland Revenue, and stealing it was because if you take something that doesn''t belong to you with no intention of returning it, that IS stealing..But then I don''t doubt the red faced shyster was able to pay for any number of expensive accountants/tax experts etc to wheedle the club''s way out of it - shame no one thought to offer the same sort some of help to make sure this poor barstard avoided being clobbered, as they did for themselves.Good luck to ya BeatAs old Rudyard said"O it''s Tommy this, an'' Tommy that, an'' "Tommy, go away";But it''s "Thank

you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,The band begins to play,

my boys, the band begins to play,O it''s "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the

band begins to play.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="City1st"]. It all smacks too much of making an example of a ''celebrity''.


[/quote]

 

Well, we''ll just have to beg to differ on whther it''s a matter for ITFC, C1st . But I''m not sure whether KB could be described as a "celebrity" . I''d be very surprised if anyone, particularly outside S Suffolk, under the age of 40 has even heard of him. I''m sure if the idea was to throw the book at a celebrity, they could have come up with someone more famous and the punishment would have been harsher.

 

I''m still intrigued as to why you think employers have some sort of moral responsibility to their exx employees 30 yrs later ?!

 

But, like you, I wish Beattie the best. He''s clearly fallen on hard times, for whatever reason, and those who pillory him, just because he once wore a blue shirt should examine their consciences.

[Bill 1,788]

As to why, then read my last post againThe same moral responsibility that saw them recently make such a huge fuss about their Eufa Cup win, which was "30 yrs later"Re the ''celebrity'' side of things. The Benefit cannot simply "come up with someone more famous", they have to deal with who they have. Whilst the sentencing guidelines are out of their hands, the decision whether to prosecute is - and far more are not prosecuted than are.A rather sad story whereby nobody really comes out of it well.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="City1st"]
The same moral responsibility that saw them recently make such a huge fuss about their Eufa Cup win, which was "30 yrs later"

[/quote]

 

With respect, CF, hardly the same thing. All that was is a remembrance of the anniversary of their UEFA Cup win, in the same way as Norwich have had "50 yrs since the FA Cup Run", "20 yrs since winning in Munich", sort of anniversary bashes recently.  I''m still at a loss to see how this equates to being financially responsible for an ex -employee 30 yrs later. If KB had been on unofficial ITFC business, and been injured in an accident, then that''s another matter. But , surely he was "employed" (in the loosest way) by BBC Radio Suffolk, so would THEY not have a responsibility ?

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

Andy Larkin - I agree with your comments.

 

 

 

 

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

Where was the PFA.?

The local rep at Portman Rd, should have been made aware of Beattie''s situation.

 

 

[Bill 1,788]

PicklesI have not said financially responsible, though moral may be interpreted as leaning towards that direction (I''m not sure if we had a bash for the 20th anniversary of winning in Munich, probably because of the technical hitch ....... 20 years have not yet elapsed).Kevin Beattie is not simply another ex employee. He stayed on in the town and has been in and about the club ever since. His is a different case - and I cannot state this strongly enough when set against a club who have made and still make it their badge of honour to proclaim how much a ''family club'' they are/were. This activity is connected to the club as, it appears, virtually everything else he does is. However this matter is subjective. There is, as you say, no legal obligation or liability towards him and so we will have to continue to see it different - with there being no real ''correct'' viewpoint.  It is just a matter of how each of us feels about this case.

The really sad thing is though, had the bloke been a decade or so younger Jewell may well have signed him up last summer.

[nutty nigel 7,686]

[quote user="Eric Pickles Pie Supplier"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

It has to do with what that lot down the road could have done Andy. Beattie''s circumstances weren''t a secret. It''s not like he had a roofing job in America........

 

 

[/quote]

 

Sorry, Nutty. Despite what you say (and the link) , I really do not see what this has to do with ITFC, per se . If you hit on hard times, would you expect some company that employed you 40 yrs ago to come riding to the rescue ? I think not. So why should it be any different for KB ?  Whether they were right to bail out Chopra is another matter that''s been discussed on here before, but the whole Beattie story has nothing whatsoever to do with it .

[/quote]

 

Well I think it has everything to do with them. And the Chopra example just shows what they are prepared to do in that case and where their priorities lie. It could well be that the company that employed you 40 years ago would have sacked you for what Chopra did and certainly not paid your debts for you. Or maybe not?

 

I think we will have to agree to differ over this because our views are poles apart.

 

 

[im spartacus canary 0]

i  know an ex binner player from the 60s and he knows beatie quite well from the yearly reunion dinner and says he is a top bloke who would do anything for anyone if he could OTBC

[nutty nigel 7,686]

[quote user="im spartacus"]i  know an ex binner player from the 60s and he knows beatie quite well from the yearly reunion dinner and says he is a top bloke who would do anything for anyone if he could OTBC[/quote]

 

So why didn''t he drum up support to help Beattie out?

 

 

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="City1st"]


The really sad thing is though, had the bloke been a decade or so younger Jewell may well have signed him up last summer.







[/quote]

 

Excellent response, CF .

 

And just shows how people with differing viewpoints on a matter like this can react without any toys being thrown out of prams.

 

Ditto for Nutty as well.

 

What we can all agree on is that , rivalries aside, KB can hopefully get his life sorted soon ?

[im spartacus canary 0]

probably cos he retired from the factory i work at a few years ago i doubt his pension will stretch to it 

[Shankslad 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Ruddygore"]Do you know what? This sort of thing can happen to nearly anyone. Most of us at some point in our lives or for most of our working lives have only been one paycheck away from losing everything.

I went through a period in my life where although I had money, personal circumstances led to me being totally disorganised. As a bloke I was uniquely qualified to ignore what needed to be done and managed somehow to get into an inholy mess ending up with County Court Judgements and these had all been totally avoidable if I''d been on my game.

I have some compassion with Keith Beattie and if you haven''t well I can only imagine that you are either superhuman and will never get into such scrapes or are super-inhuman and that I hope you will never get into such a position.

Good luck Keith and to your wife. It doesn''t matter who supports who at such times, perhaps we all need to learn a bit of humanity.

Sorry to have bored the superhumans on here.[/quote][Y][/quote]

 

Don''t mock anyone on our way up - we may meet them again on our way down!!

 

Fraud?   It''s relative - MP''s are the main culprits with their expenses when position and money breeds greed.   Fraud?   Salesmen claiming expenses for journeys they never made, to places they never went to buying meals for people who didn''t exist.   The housholder paying a tradesman in cash so they avoid VAT on the bill.   An accountants job is to keep his client out of jail by expoilting loopholes and knowing enough to use legal scams to avoid paying full tax obligations - that''s just accepted as shrewd practice.

 

I don''t know the benefits system but have been told a person may work and will not lose their entitlement providing the hours of work are less than 16 per week.   However, as soon as they declare this work the benefits are immediately stopped whilst the situation is assessed and the amount of stress this causes some people results in encouraging them to keep quite as it just isn''t worth the hastle declaring it - or they just don''t bother taking up offers of small menial amounts of work.   I don''t know if the information I have been given is factually up to date ot accurate.   Perhaps the laws of survival often take precedent over the laws of the land as indeed the laws of avarice and personal profit do also.

 

I feel sad for Kevin Beattie - I remember him as a player and I think he deserves better than he has now.   I always feel sad when I hear of those former footballing heroes falling on hard times forced to sell medals because they just played football before the big bucks arrived.   That''s why they play testamonials isn''t it?   Todays top players don''t need testamonials - just one of those shrewd accountant fellas!!!

[Bill 1,788]

The rather disturbing aspect to this is that much of what has been posted on here has been reasoned and thoughtful stuff, much on the lines of ''there but for the Grace of God ... etc whereas the binners themselves have indulged in a pretty vicious attack based on some demonisation of all benefit fraudsters.Maybe it is a measure of who posts on this forum and who posts on theirsI would still like to hear their take on their club''s fraudulent behaviour

[nutty nigel 7,686]

[quote user="im spartacus"]

probably cos he retired from the factory i work at a few years ago i doubt his pension will stretch to it 

[/quote]

 

It costs nothing to drum up support though...

 

[im spartacus canary 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="im spartacus"]

probably cos he retired from the factory i work at a few years ago i doubt his pension will stretch to it 

[/quote]

 

 

It costs nothing to drum up support though...

 

[/quote]

well i never said he was a perfect all round human being like you did i ?