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Fraz

my new season ticket is great

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Being classed as a casual supporter and endured another price hike of the casual tickets i was very annoyed at the start of the season, not only that the fact you need to be a super member now to get a ticket is just more money out of my pocket to see my team.Now I can go down my local pub to watch every game, watch all 38 premier league Norwich games, not only that it is bring real value back to the supporters.  I know its not as good as going to the game live, but in the current economic climate it''s great, free to get in, you get to drink a pint while watching the game and the atmosphere is good too.  I actually can wait until Sunday''s gameI wonder if we will see a drop in casual supporters going to some of the games due to this,

on top of all this it also helps put money into local pubs and supports them at the same time.  Latvian Sky, I love you.

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[quote user="When Saturday Comes"]Rumours are this might end in November?[/quote]

There will be a court case to decide whether it is allowed or not - seems no one is really sure which way it will. A European Court did rule in favour of pubs being allowed to use any TV providers from with the EU, but this was just a recommendation and a ruling in favour of Sky wouldn''t be a massive surprise.

 

Don''t get too use to your 3pm pub trips yet.

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[quote user="When Saturday Comes"]I think Sky should have no right to tell pubs what they should subscribe to. The result of all of this will be a lot more people who have never watched City suddenly having an opinion.[/quote]

Sky''s arguement is that they have paid a lot of the exclusive rights to show Premier League games and that other channels are bypassing this by broadcasting in regions they have no rights to. Also Sky are prohibited under UK law to show games at 3pm on a Saturday, whereas other EU based channels are not prevented from doing this, and if they want to broadcast in the UK they should be subjected to the same rules.

 

Although I can see the Courts saying pubs are allowed to show these channels, they will tell the channels that if they want to broadcast via satellites in the UK they with have to comply with UK law - i.e. no games at 3pm and not to infringe on the rights of SKY. Enforcement will be the difficult part - it may technically be legal for the pubs to show, just not legal for the channels to broadcast it. Similar to the situation with streaming

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I actually hope this gets knocked on the head quickly.

 

I was in Turkey in October and there was a bar with every 3pm kick off on live, and Sky Sports Saturday on in the middle screen. It was awesome.

 

However, coming on the Pink''Un and bragging about been a City fan but watching all the games in the Pub is abit hypocritical.

 

Yes, football is an expense, but if everyone watched every game in the pub, there would be no football at all!

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Sky have destroyed football, and when the Sky deal collapses as a result of streaming and these new channels, it will destroy football again. I used to despise armchair football fans, but in truth the game has put itself in a position where it RELIES on them. If subscriptions fall and Sky pull out of football, it will bankrupt a lot of clubs. I won''t blame people who cancelled Sky, I won''t even blame Murdoch, I will blame the football authorities and the clubs themselves.You have clubs with hundreds of millions of pounds of debts that they wouldn''t be able to service if they stopped getting £40m a year from Sky. One day the Premier League will collapse, taking plenty of clubs with it, I just hope and pray that this club is successful in eradicating its own debts before it happens. All it takes is for Sky to stop showing football for the dominos to fall in this country. Maybe in a few decades we will go back to the eighties, where clubs spent their gate reciepts and not much else, footballers were well paid but not multi-millionaires by 22, and we can then start taking the moral highground about who goes to Carrow Road every week and who doesn''t.Should I sympathise with the mediocre players on £60k a week? Should I sympathise with the billionaire Murdochs for falling profits? Should I sympathise with clubs who spend five times their gate reciepts on their wage bills? F*ck that, I''ll support the humble landlord of the local pub and the casual fan with a mortgage to pay who doesn''t want to spend a grand a year on footy because he is worried about what is going to happen to interest rates over the next couple of years. Good on you, enjoy the games, do try and catch an away game or too though.... you might not get the chance to see the likes of Rooney at Old Trafford or Gerrard at Anfield for some time mate!

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[quote user="CDMullins"]

I actually hope this gets knocked on the head quickly.

I was in Turkey in October and there was a bar with every 3pm kick off on live, and Sky Sports Saturday on in the middle screen. It was awesome.

However, coming on the Pink''Un and bragging about been a City fan but watching all the games in the Pub is abit hypocritical.

Yes, football is an expense, but if everyone watched every game in the pub, there would be no football at all!

[/quote]If football wasn''t shown on Sky then clubs would have to live within their means, and people would have no choice but to go and watch the games live, the atmospheres will return to lifeless grounds all over the country. I find it interesting that you criticise people watching the game on random cable channels but appear happy for people to sit in recliners in their living rooms with their Sky Sports subscriptions. That''s what £40m does I suppose. I can remember Elland Road in the League One season, barely 1000 Norwich fans, total attendance 18000. Two promotion contenders, and so called big clubs. Why? Because it was on Sky. Unfortunately the Sky revenue probably made Leeds more money than the extra 5000 people through the door.

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[quote user="When Saturday Comes"]Rumours are this might end in November?[/quote]

I very much hope not. I''m hoping that the Murdochs get another kicking. It will be just desserts for the Aussie/Yankee bastards. It''s high time their malign influence on this country was destroyed!

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[quote user="LeJuge"]Sky have destroyed football, and when the Sky deal collapses as a result of streaming and these new channels, it will destroy football again. I used to despise armchair football fans, but in truth the game has put itself in a position where it RELIES on them.

If subscriptions fall and Sky pull out of football, it will bankrupt a lot of clubs. I won''t blame people who cancelled Sky, I won''t even blame Murdoch, I will blame the football authorities and the clubs themselves.

You have clubs with hundreds of millions of pounds of debts that they wouldn''t be able to service if they stopped getting £40m a year from Sky. One day the Premier League will collapse, taking plenty of clubs with it, I just hope and pray that this club is successful in eradicating its own debts before it happens.

All it takes is for Sky to stop showing football for the dominos to fall in this country. Maybe in a few decades we will go back to the eighties, where clubs spent their gate reciepts and not much else, footballers were well paid but not multi-millionaires by 22, and we can then start taking the moral highground about who goes to Carrow Road every week and who doesn''t.

Should I sympathise with the mediocre players on £60k a week? Should I sympathise with the billionaire Murdochs for falling profits? Should I sympathise with clubs who spend five times their gate reciepts on their wage bills? F*ck that, I''ll support the humble landlord of the local pub and the casual fan with a mortgage to pay who doesn''t want to spend a grand a year on footy because he is worried about what is going to happen to interest rates over the next couple of years.

Good on you, enjoy the games, do try and catch an away game or too though.... you might not get the chance to see the likes of Rooney at Old Trafford or Gerrard at Anfield for some time mate!
[/quote]

If it isn''t SKY it will be some other provider paying millions for the rights to games. The deals to show matches in other countries add up to considerably more than the rights for the UK.

 

Whilst streams provide a naff product like they do at the moment - grainy pictures and often in Spanish - SKY will feel fairly secure in their position, and considering they sell more SKY subscriptions year on year it doesn''t suggest they are coming to an end anytime soon. The recent Court case which forced BT to stop allowing access to an illegal file sharing website will soon see a lot more policing of the web, with ISPs being resonsible for the sites their customers use - a horrible ruling for net neutrality but something I''m sure SKY and ESPN are taking a very close look at. I expect to see someone like ESPN to start seriously challenging SKY dominate position in the next few years and go for the exclusive rights, this will probably end up in clubs getting even more money in TV rights.

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="LeJuge"]Sky have destroyed football, and when the Sky deal collapses as a result of streaming and these new channels, it will destroy football again. I used to despise armchair football fans, but in truth the game has put itself in a position where it RELIES on them. If subscriptions fall and Sky pull out of football, it will bankrupt a lot of clubs. I won''t blame people who cancelled Sky, I won''t even blame Murdoch, I will blame the football authorities and the clubs themselves.You have clubs with hundreds of millions of pounds of debts that they wouldn''t be able to service if they stopped getting £40m a year from Sky. One day the Premier League will collapse, taking plenty of clubs with it, I just hope and pray that this club is successful in eradicating its own debts before it happens. All it takes is for Sky to stop showing football for the dominos to fall in this country. Maybe in a few decades we will go back to the eighties, where clubs spent their gate reciepts and not much else, footballers were well paid but not multi-millionaires by 22, and we can then start taking the moral highground about who goes to Carrow Road every week and who doesn''t.Should I sympathise with the mediocre players on £60k a week? Should I sympathise with the billionaire Murdochs for falling profits? Should I sympathise with clubs who spend five times their gate reciepts on their wage bills? F*ck that, I''ll support the humble landlord of the local pub and the casual fan with a mortgage to pay who doesn''t want to spend a grand a year on footy because he is worried about what is going to happen to interest rates over the next couple of years. Good on you, enjoy the games, do try and catch an away game or too though.... you might not get the chance to see the likes of Rooney at Old Trafford or Gerrard at Anfield for some time mate![/quote]

If it isn''t SKY it will be some other provider paying millions for the rights to games. The deals to show matches in other countries add up to considerably more than the rights for the UK.

 

Whilst streams provide a naff product like they do at the moment - grainy pictures and often in Spanish - SKY will feel fairly secure in their position, and considering they sell more SKY subscriptions year on year it doesn''t suggest they are coming to an end anytime soon. The recent Court case which forced BT to stop allowing access to an illegal file sharing website will soon see a lot more policing of the web, with ISPs being resonsible for the sites their customers use - a horrible ruling for net neutrality but something I''m sure SKY and ESPN are taking a very close look at. I expect to see someone like ESPN to start seriously challenging SKY dominate position in the next few years and go for the exclusive rights, this will probably end up in clubs getting even more money in TV rights.

[/quote]Yes but if Sky were to pull out of the market, the price would deflate hugely. There is potentially a Sentanta scenario ready to happen at any time in the UK. One can assume that this precise SAME issue currently exists globally, e.g. the example above of the holiday in Turkey. I''d be interested in seeing your sources for this statement: "The deals to show matches in other countries add up to considerably more than the rights for the UK". I did run a search, found nothing. Whilst you are probably right in that global revenues exceed UK revenues, do SKY revenues exceed the total sum of all other contracts? SKY operate in a lot of countries, it''s not UK specific. To be honest I think its a very sad situation where you can buy every Premier League game for pennies in Asia anyway, whilst we are forced to pay a lot more money to watch a handful of games per week to a business which effectively buys the right to run a monopoly for X amount of year

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[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="LeJuge"]Sky have destroyed football, and when the Sky deal collapses as a result of streaming and these new channels, it will destroy football again. I used to despise armchair football fans, but in truth the game has put itself in a position where it RELIES on them.

If subscriptions fall and Sky pull out of football, it will bankrupt a lot of clubs. I won''t blame people who cancelled Sky, I won''t even blame Murdoch, I will blame the football authorities and the clubs themselves.

You have clubs with hundreds of millions of pounds of debts that they wouldn''t be able to service if they stopped getting £40m a year from Sky. One day the Premier League will collapse, taking plenty of clubs with it, I just hope and pray that this club is successful in eradicating its own debts before it happens.

All it takes is for Sky to stop showing football for the dominos to fall in this country. Maybe in a few decades we will go back to the eighties, where clubs spent their gate reciepts and not much else, footballers were well paid but not multi-millionaires by 22, and we can then start taking the moral highground about who goes to Carrow Road every week and who doesn''t.

Should I sympathise with the mediocre players on £60k a week? Should I sympathise with the billionaire Murdochs for falling profits? Should I sympathise with clubs who spend five times their gate reciepts on their wage bills? F*ck that, I''ll support the humble landlord of the local pub and the casual fan with a mortgage to pay who doesn''t want to spend a grand a year on footy because he is worried about what is going to happen to interest rates over the next couple of years.

Good on you, enjoy the games, do try and catch an away game or too though.... you might not get the chance to see the likes of Rooney at Old Trafford or Gerrard at Anfield for some time mate!
[/quote]

If it isn''t SKY it will be some other provider paying millions for the rights to games. The deals to show matches in other countries add up to considerably more than the rights for the UK.

 

Whilst streams provide a naff product like they do at the moment - grainy pictures and often in Spanish - SKY will feel fairly secure in their position, and considering they sell more SKY subscriptions year on year it doesn''t suggest they are coming to an end anytime soon. The recent Court case which forced BT to stop allowing access to an illegal file sharing website will soon see a lot more policing of the web, with ISPs being resonsible for the sites their customers use - a horrible ruling for net neutrality but something I''m sure SKY and ESPN are taking a very close look at. I expect to see someone like ESPN to start seriously challenging SKY dominate position in the next few years and go for the exclusive rights, this will probably end up in clubs getting even more money in TV rights.

[/quote]

Yes but if Sky were to pull out of the market, the price would deflate hugely. There is potentially a Sentanta scenario ready to happen at any time in the UK. One can assume that this precise SAME issue currently exists globally, e.g. the example above of the holiday in Turkey.

I''d be interested in seeing your sources for this statement: "The deals to show matches in other countries add up to considerably more than the rights for the UK". I did run a search, found nothing.

Whilst you are probably right in that global revenues exceed UK revenues, do SKY revenues exceed the total sum of all other contracts? SKY operate in a lot of countries, it''s not UK specific.

To be honest I think its a very sad situation where you can buy every Premier League game for pennies in Asia anyway, whilst we are forced to pay a lot more money to watch a handful of games per week to a business which effectively buys the right to run a monopoly for X amount of year
[/quote]

 

Sorry you are right, I jumped the gun a little.

 

The last deals were worth £1.7bn for UK and Ireland (including the BBC''s highlights package) and £1.4bn for overseas rights - this runs until 2013 when the predicted values will be £2bn of the UK and around £3bn(!) for overseas rights - a massively growing market. New Corp franchises do hold a lot of the rights around the world but fought hard to keep many of them at the last rights sale.

 

There is no sign that any of the big providers are looking to get out of the market at the moment, and the price of rights are expected to go up and up (especially overseas where interest is constantly growing, mainly in China and India).

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="LeJuge"]Sky have destroyed football, and when the Sky deal collapses as a result of streaming and these new channels, it will destroy football again. I used to despise armchair football fans, but in truth the game has put itself in a position where it RELIES on them. If subscriptions fall and Sky pull out of football, it will bankrupt a lot of clubs. I won''t blame people who cancelled Sky, I won''t even blame Murdoch, I will blame the football authorities and the clubs themselves.You have clubs with hundreds of millions of pounds of debts that they wouldn''t be able to service if they stopped getting £40m a year from Sky. One day the Premier League will collapse, taking plenty of clubs with it, I just hope and pray that this club is successful in eradicating its own debts before it happens. All it takes is for Sky to stop showing football for the dominos to fall in this country. Maybe in a few decades we will go back to the eighties, where clubs spent their gate reciepts and not much else, footballers were well paid but not multi-millionaires by 22, and we can then start taking the moral highground about who goes to Carrow Road every week and who doesn''t.Should I sympathise with the mediocre players on £60k a week? Should I sympathise with the billionaire Murdochs for falling profits? Should I sympathise with clubs who spend five times their gate reciepts on their wage bills? F*ck that, I''ll support the humble landlord of the local pub and the casual fan with a mortgage to pay who doesn''t want to spend a grand a year on footy because he is worried about what is going to happen to interest rates over the next couple of years. Good on you, enjoy the games, do try and catch an away game or too though.... you might not get the chance to see the likes of Rooney at Old Trafford or Gerrard at Anfield for some time mate![/quote]

If it isn''t SKY it will be some other provider paying millions for the rights to games. The deals to show matches in other countries add up to considerably more than the rights for the UK.

 

Whilst streams provide a naff product like they do at the moment - grainy pictures and often in Spanish - SKY will feel fairly secure in their position, and considering they sell more SKY subscriptions year on year it doesn''t suggest they are coming to an end anytime soon. The recent Court case which forced BT to stop allowing access to an illegal file sharing website will soon see a lot more policing of the web, with ISPs being resonsible for the sites their customers use - a horrible ruling for net neutrality but something I''m sure SKY and ESPN are taking a very close look at. I expect to see someone like ESPN to start seriously challenging SKY dominate position in the next few years and go for the exclusive rights, this will probably end up in clubs getting even more money in TV rights.

[/quote]Yes but if Sky were to pull out of the market, the price would deflate hugely. There is potentially a Sentanta scenario ready to happen at any time in the UK. One can assume that this precise SAME issue currently exists globally, e.g. the example above of the holiday in Turkey. I''d be interested in seeing your sources for this statement: "The deals to show matches in other countries add up to considerably more than the rights for the UK". I did run a search, found nothing. Whilst you are probably right in that global revenues exceed UK revenues, do SKY revenues exceed the total sum of all other contracts? SKY operate in a lot of countries, it''s not UK specific. To be honest I think its a very sad situation where you can buy every Premier League game for pennies in Asia anyway, whilst we are forced to pay a lot more money to watch a handful of games per week to a business which effectively buys the right to run a monopoly for X amount of year[/quote]

 

Sorry you are right, I jumped the gun a little.

 

The last deals were worth £1.7bn for UK and Ireland (including the BBC''s highlights package) and £1.4bn for overseas rights - this runs until 2013 when the predicted values will be £2bn of the UK and around £3bn(!) for overseas rights - a massively growing market. New Corp franchises do hold a lot of the rights around the world but fought hard to keep many of them at the last rights sale.

 

There is no sign that any of the big providers are looking to get out of the market at the moment, and the price of rights are expected to go up and up (especially overseas where interest is constantly growing, mainly in China and India).

[/quote]I do hope that it lasts for a long time, or that any declines in revenues are gradual rather than steep or sudden. But football appears to have learnt nothing from the wider economic climate, nothing lasts forever. Just like the property market and sub prime mortgages. I don''t have any issue with their being a lot of money in the sport, and hell it is great for our economy, foreigners pumping money into British football, the footballers then spending far too much money in car showrooms, on new builds, their wags in clothing boutiques. My ONLY issue is that clubs seem to be leveraged against Sky money. They are happy to mortgage their futures in the ignorant belief that Sky money will last forever. British football is an empire, and empires decline, just like the USA is in decline. There is no reason why the MLS or the Brazilian league may not become the biggest leagues in a couple of decades. I hope that we do pay down our debt over the next couple of years, because a reliance on one major income source is frankly disturbing. The buck stops at the FA here, they have failed to regulate. No wage caps, no cap on spending at say 80% of revenue, no maximum debt ratio. All seems pretty simple to me.

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[quote user="Fraz"]
Being classed as a casual supporter and endured another price hike of the casual tickets i was very annoyed at the start of the season, not only that the fact you need to be a super member now to get a ticket is just more money out of my pocket to see my team.

Now I can go down my local pub to watch every game, watch all 38 premier league Norwich games, not only that it is bring real value back to the supporters.  I know its not as good as going to the game live, but in the current economic climate it''s great, free to get in, you get to drink a pint while watching the game and the atmosphere is good too.  I actually can wait until Sunday''s game

I wonder if we will see a drop in casual supporters going to some of the games due to this,


on top of all this it also helps put money into local pubs and supports them at the same time.  Latvian Sky, I love you.
[/quote]

 

I am a season ticket holder and have been for many years plus I usually get to about 7/8 away games each season as well but I''m also happy that I can watch all the other away games in my local pub for the price of a few drinks.

Its helping the smaller local pubs stay open and its helping people who for whatever reason cant afford tickets to still enjoy watching the team they love.

Its a win win situation so I too say welcome to Norfolk ,Latvian satalite systems [:)]

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No live games on TV at 3pm on Saturday was introduced for a reason....to not harm attendances. People such as the OP ''boasting'' about how they can now watch all NCFC games without even bothring to go to a football ground is disgusting for the game in my book.Forget supporting your local boozer financially, how about supporting your local football club in the same way!The NFL has it spot on:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_on_television#Blackout_procedure

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[quote user="mrbrutler"]No live games on TV at 3pm on Saturday was introduced for a reason....to not harm attendances. People such as the OP ''boasting'' about how they can now watch all NCFC games without even bothring to go to a football ground is disgusting for the game in my book.Forget supporting your local boozer financially, how about supporting your local football club in the same way!The NFL has it spot on:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_on_television#Blackout_procedure[/quote]You are aware that Carrow Road isn''t large enough to accommodate everybody who wants a ticket this year? The same can be said for about 15 of the clubs in the Premier League. Maybe I would understand your concern if there were 2000 season tickets up for grabs, but there simply isn''t. Telling somebody without a season ticket to go and buy one is a little like telling somebody to walk on water. To the contrary, the club is probably 2000 season tickets short.I think that those without a ticket still being able to watch games this year is fab, and to be honest I suspect that it will help to create a new generation of fans in Norfolk. The club doesn''t currently have the ability to let kids in cheap, or have promotions to get people through the door to fill seats, so this is the second best thing.I am fortunate in that for me the cost of season ticket renewal is peanuts, but for many others - including many of my own friends - spending £500 for a season ticket and then another £500 on matchday expenses just isn''t viable right now. There are plenty of Norwich fans who simply cannot afford to buy a ST, are you saying that if you aren''t fortunate enough to fit within a certain earnings demographic you are "disgusting"?I know LOADS of old boys, in their seventies etc, who struggle to pay their gas bills each year but can recall countless tails of City games from their youth. Hardship can happen to anybody, no matter how much money you have now. Big difference between spending a fiver in the local on two pints of cheap lager and a packet of crisps and the expense associated with a footy game these days.

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[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="mrbrutler"]No live games on TV at 3pm on Saturday was introduced for a reason....to not harm attendances. People such as the OP ''boasting'' about how they can now watch all NCFC games without even bothring to go to a football ground is disgusting for the game in my book.Forget supporting your local boozer financially, how about supporting your local football club in the same way!The NFL has it spot on:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_on_television#Blackout_procedure[/quote]You are aware that Carrow Road isn''t large enough to accommodate everybody who wants a ticket this year? The same can be said for about 15 of the clubs in the Premier League. Maybe I would understand your concern if there were 2000 season tickets up for grabs, but there simply isn''t. Telling somebody without a season ticket to go and buy one is a little like telling somebody to walk on water. To the contrary, the club is probably 2000 season tickets short.I think that those without a ticket still being able to watch games this year is fab, and to be honest I suspect that it will help to create a new generation of fans in Norfolk. The club doesn''t currently have the ability to let kids in cheap, or have promotions to get people through the door to fill seats, so this is the second best thing.I am fortunate in that for me the cost of season ticket renewal is peanuts, but for many others - including many of my own friends - spending £500 for a season ticket and then another £500 on matchday expenses just isn''t viable right now. There are plenty of Norwich fans who simply cannot afford to buy a ST, are you saying that if you aren''t fortunate enough to fit within a certain earnings demographic you are "disgusting"?I know LOADS of old boys, in their seventies etc, who struggle to pay their gas bills each year but can recall countless tails of City games from their youth. Hardship can happen to anybody, no matter how much money you have now. Big difference between spending a fiver in the local on two pints of cheap lager and a packet of crisps and the expense associated with a footy game these days. [/quote]Further to that I can''t see anything wrong with supporting your local boozer. The pub industry is down on its knees, pubs are closing everywhere. You would be well served to remember just how close pubs and football were inter related before the working classes were priced out of games and replaced by a new breed of middle classes celebrating their faux-wealth based on over inflated property valuations and how up to date their iPod is. Pub, bookies, footy. That IS football culture, or at least it WAS. Now it seems to be pilates, quick spot of lunch, pop in Morrisons for a piss, pop and a paper, then down to the ground at 2.15 to make sure your in time for your fancy yellas burger and watered down lager.

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[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="mrbrutler"]No live games on TV at 3pm on Saturday was introduced for a reason....to not harm attendances. People such as the OP ''boasting'' about how they can now watch all NCFC games without even bothring to go to a football ground is disgusting for the game in my book.Forget supporting your local boozer financially, how about supporting your local football club in the same way!The NFL has it spot on:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_on_television#Blackout_procedure[/quote]You are aware that Carrow Road isn''t large enough to accommodate everybody who wants a ticket this year? The same can be said for about 15 of the clubs in the Premier League. Maybe I would understand your concern if there were 2000 season tickets up for grabs, but there simply isn''t. Telling somebody without a season ticket to go and buy one is a little like telling somebody to walk on water. To the contrary, the club is probably 2000 season tickets short.I think that those without a ticket still being able to watch games this year is fab, and to be honest I suspect that it will help to create a new generation of fans in Norfolk. The club doesn''t currently have the ability to let kids in cheap, or have promotions to get people through the door to fill seats, so this is the second best thing.I am fortunate in that for me the cost of season ticket renewal is peanuts, but for many others - including many of my own friends - spending £500 for a season ticket and then another £500 on matchday expenses just isn''t viable right now. There are plenty of Norwich fans who simply cannot afford to buy a ST, are you saying that if you aren''t fortunate enough to fit within a certain earnings demographic you are "disgusting"?I know LOADS of old boys, in their seventies etc, who struggle to pay their gas bills each year but can recall countless tails of City games from their youth. Hardship can happen to anybody, no matter how much money you have now. Big difference between spending a fiver in the local on two pints of cheap lager and a packet of crisps and the expense associated with a footy game these days. [/quote]Further to that I can''t see anything wrong with supporting your local boozer. The pub industry is down on its knees, pubs are closing everywhere. You would be well served to remember just how close pubs and football were inter related before the working classes were priced out of games and replaced by a new breed of middle classes celebrating their faux-wealth based on over inflated property valuations and how up to date their iPod is. Pub, bookies, footy. That IS football culture, or at least it WAS. Now it seems to be pilates, quick spot of lunch, pop in Morrisons for a piss, pop and a paper, then down to the ground at 2.15 to make sure your in time for your fancy yellas burger and watered down lager. [/quote]We''re lucky at Norwich - we sell out. So yes, the NFL model of blackout unless you sell-out is perfectably viable for us. You''d be able to enjoy every Norwich home game in your local boozer.This is not the case for at least half of the Prem clubs, they DO NOT sell out every week. So why should people be able to just log on to a moody feed on the web, or pop down to the local pub to watch for free?If you can''t afford a holiday, you don''t go. If you can''t afford to go to the theatre, you don''t see the show. If you can''t afford a car, you get the bus. That is part of life.Approx. £500 is reasonable for a season of Premier League in my book. All this whinging about the "economic climate" is just boring now. People simply want something for nothing.

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[quote user="mrbrutler"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="mrbrutler"]No live games on TV at 3pm on Saturday was introduced for a reason....to not harm attendances. People such as the OP ''boasting'' about how they can now watch all NCFC games without even bothring to go to a football ground is disgusting for the game in my book.Forget supporting your local boozer financially, how about supporting your local football club in the same way!The NFL has it spot on:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_on_television#Blackout_procedure[/quote]You are aware that Carrow Road isn''t large enough to accommodate everybody who wants a ticket this year? The same can be said for about 15 of the clubs in the Premier League. Maybe I would understand your concern if there were 2000 season tickets up for grabs, but there simply isn''t. Telling somebody without a season ticket to go and buy one is a little like telling somebody to walk on water. To the contrary, the club is probably 2000 season tickets short.I think that those without a ticket still being able to watch games this year is fab, and to be honest I suspect that it will help to create a new generation of fans in Norfolk. The club doesn''t currently have the ability to let kids in cheap, or have promotions to get people through the door to fill seats, so this is the second best thing.I am fortunate in that for me the cost of season ticket renewal is peanuts, but for many others - including many of my own friends - spending £500 for a season ticket and then another £500 on matchday expenses just isn''t viable right now. There are plenty of Norwich fans who simply cannot afford to buy a ST, are you saying that if you aren''t fortunate enough to fit within a certain earnings demographic you are "disgusting"?I know LOADS of old boys, in their seventies etc, who struggle to pay their gas bills each year but can recall countless tails of City games from their youth. Hardship can happen to anybody, no matter how much money you have now. Big difference between spending a fiver in the local on two pints of cheap lager and a packet of crisps and the expense associated with a footy game these days. [/quote]Further to that I can''t see anything wrong with supporting your local boozer. The pub industry is down on its knees, pubs are closing everywhere. You would be well served to remember just how close pubs and football were inter related before the working classes were priced out of games and replaced by a new breed of middle classes celebrating their faux-wealth based on over inflated property valuations and how up to date their iPod is. Pub, bookies, footy. That IS football culture, or at least it WAS. Now it seems to be pilates, quick spot of lunch, pop in Morrisons for a piss, pop and a paper, then down to the ground at 2.15 to make sure your in time for your fancy yellas burger and watered down lager. [/quote]We''re lucky at Norwich - we sell out. So yes, the NFL model of blackout unless you sell-out is perfectably viable for us. You''d be able to enjoy every Norwich home game in your local boozer.This is not the case for at least half of the Prem clubs, they DO NOT sell out every week. So why should people be able to just log on to a moody feed on the web, or pop down to the local pub to watch for free?If you can''t afford a holiday, you don''t go. If you can''t afford to go to the theatre, you don''t see the show. If you can''t afford a car, you get the bus. That is part of life.Approx. £500 is reasonable for a season of Premier League in my book. All this whinging about the "economic climate" is just boring now. People simply want something for nothing.[/quote]It''s a good job that the OP wasn''t talking about any other clubs then, he was talking about this one, and thus nothing that he said was the slightest bit disgusting. If you can''t afford a holiday, you go for a day trip. If you can''t afford to go to the theatre, you go to the cinema. If you can''t afford a car, you get a friend to give you a lift. If you can''t afford to go to the footy, you watch it down the pub. I take it you didn''t watch a single away game online last year then? I bloody did, I watched loads of them.

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[quote user="mrbrutler"]
 how about supporting your local football club in the same way!

[/quote]

Some people just can''t afford it, football is an expensive sport to watch nowadays and not everyone is as lucky as you and me maybe?

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[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="mrbrutler"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="mrbrutler"]No live games on TV at 3pm on Saturday was introduced for a reason....to not harm attendances. People such as the OP ''boasting'' about how they can now watch all NCFC games without even bothring to go to a football ground is disgusting for the game in my book.Forget supporting your local boozer financially, how about supporting your local football club in the same way!The NFL has it spot on:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_on_television#Blackout_procedure[/quote]You are aware that Carrow Road isn''t large enough to accommodate everybody who wants a ticket this year? The same can be said for about 15 of the clubs in the Premier League. Maybe I would understand your concern if there were 2000 season tickets up for grabs, but there simply isn''t. Telling somebody without a season ticket to go and buy one is a little like telling somebody to walk on water. To the contrary, the club is probably 2000 season tickets short.I think that those without a ticket still being able to watch games this year is fab, and to be honest I suspect that it will help to create a new generation of fans in Norfolk. The club doesn''t currently have the ability to let kids in cheap, or have promotions to get people through the door to fill seats, so this is the second best thing.I am fortunate in that for me the cost of season ticket renewal is peanuts, but for many others - including many of my own friends - spending £500 for a season ticket and then another £500 on matchday expenses just isn''t viable right now. There are plenty of Norwich fans who simply cannot afford to buy a ST, are you saying that if you aren''t fortunate enough to fit within a certain earnings demographic you are "disgusting"?I know LOADS of old boys, in their seventies etc, who struggle to pay their gas bills each year but can recall countless tails of City games from their youth. Hardship can happen to anybody, no matter how much money you have now. Big difference between spending a fiver in the local on two pints of cheap lager and a packet of crisps and the expense associated with a footy game these days. [/quote]Further to that I can''t see anything wrong with supporting your local boozer. The pub industry is down on its knees, pubs are closing everywhere. You would be well served to remember just how close pubs and football were inter related before the working classes were priced out of games and replaced by a new breed of middle classes celebrating their faux-wealth based on over inflated property valuations and how up to date their iPod is. Pub, bookies, footy. That IS football culture, or at least it WAS. Now it seems to be pilates, quick spot of lunch, pop in Morrisons for a piss, pop and a paper, then down to the ground at 2.15 to make sure your in time for your fancy yellas burger and watered down lager. [/quote]We''re lucky at Norwich - we sell out. So yes, the NFL model of blackout unless you sell-out is perfectably viable for us. You''d be able to enjoy every Norwich home game in your local boozer.This is not the case for at least half of the Prem clubs, they DO NOT sell out every week. So why should people be able to just log on to a moody feed on the web, or pop down to the local pub to watch for free?If you can''t afford a holiday, you don''t go. If you can''t afford to go to the theatre, you don''t see the show. If you can''t afford a car, you get the bus. That is part of life.Approx. £500 is reasonable for a season of Premier League in my book. All this whinging about the "economic climate" is just boring now. People simply want something for nothing.[/quote]It''s a good job that the OP wasn''t talking about any other clubs then, he was talking about this one, and thus nothing that he said was the slightest bit disgusting. If you can''t afford a holiday, you go for a day trip. If you can''t afford to go to the theatre, you go to the cinema. If you can''t afford a car, you get a friend to give you a lift. If you can''t afford to go to the footy, you watch it down the pub. I take it you didn''t watch a single away game online last year then? I bloody did, I watched loads of them. [/quote]Football attendances could and probably will suffer if the 3pm blackout rule isn''t upheld. How can this not be a bad thing?Do you really want to watch NCFC away games online in half empty grounds like Wigan EVERY week?Sure, I feel sorry for people who have lost their jobs and now can''t afford to go etc. But we all know there will be a percantage who chose NOT to  travel to a game because it''s far easier for them to fire up their computer and watch. A massively sad state of affairs in my opinion.

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Mr Butler,

Maybe thats something we could debate on your new radio show that you are advertising futher down the page, although  I have the feeling you wont let anyone voice their opinions [:D]

CA

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[quote user="cityangel"]

Mr Butler,

Maybe thats something we could debate on your new radio show that you are advertising futher down the page, although  I have the feeling you wont let anyone voice their opinions [:D]

CA

[/quote]You have a feeling I won''t let anyone voice their opinions?Not in the slightest....I want your opinions! Hence why I decided to post on this thread on a subject that is close to my heart.

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"Although I can see the Courts saying pubs are allowed to show these channels, they will tell the channels that if they want to broadcast via satellites in the UK they with have to comply with UK law - i.e. no games at 3pm and not to infringe on the rights of SKY."

Technically, the European Court of Justice should not even consider the compliance of UK Law and the rights of a deal between two parties in one area of its jurisdiction. It has to analyse the EU trade rules with regards to the much-heralded open market. It is perfectly legal for a civilian of an EU member state to purchase a product from a company based in another EU member state and use it in their own country. No protection laws employed by a specific member state can over-rule it.

The EU advocate general has recommended that they rule in favour of the pub landlady, Karen Murphy, in this landmark case. That does not mean that the Court of Justice has to take that advice, the advocate general''s job is merely to offer public and impartial decisions on cases. However, it is a rarity that the Court of Justice ignores the advise of the advocate general.

I would imagine that the only way the Court of Justice would disagree with the advocate general would be if the influence of Sky stretches to Brussels.

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[quote user="mrbrutler"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="mrbrutler"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="mrbrutler"]No live games on TV at 3pm on Saturday was introduced for a reason....to not harm attendances. People such as the OP ''boasting'' about how they can now watch all NCFC games without even bothring to go to a football ground is disgusting for the game in my book.Forget supporting your local boozer financially, how about supporting your local football club in the same way!The NFL has it spot on:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_on_television#Blackout_procedure[/quote]You are aware that Carrow Road isn''t large enough to accommodate everybody who wants a ticket this year? The same can be said for about 15 of the clubs in the Premier League. Maybe I would understand your concern if there were 2000 season tickets up for grabs, but there simply isn''t. Telling somebody without a season ticket to go and buy one is a little like telling somebody to walk on water. To the contrary, the club is probably 2000 season tickets short.I think that those without a ticket still being able to watch games this year is fab, and to be honest I suspect that it will help to create a new generation of fans in Norfolk. The club doesn''t currently have the ability to let kids in cheap, or have promotions to get people through the door to fill seats, so this is the second best thing.I am fortunate in that for me the cost of season ticket renewal is peanuts, but for many others - including many of my own friends - spending £500 for a season ticket and then another £500 on matchday expenses just isn''t viable right now. There are plenty of Norwich fans who simply cannot afford to buy a ST, are you saying that if you aren''t fortunate enough to fit within a certain earnings demographic you are "disgusting"?I know LOADS of old boys, in their seventies etc, who struggle to pay their gas bills each year but can recall countless tails of City games from their youth. Hardship can happen to anybody, no matter how much money you have now. Big difference between spending a fiver in the local on two pints of cheap lager and a packet of crisps and the expense associated with a footy game these days. [/quote]Further to that I can''t see anything wrong with supporting your local boozer. The pub industry is down on its knees, pubs are closing everywhere. You would be well served to remember just how close pubs and football were inter related before the working classes were priced out of games and replaced by a new breed of middle classes celebrating their faux-wealth based on over inflated property valuations and how up to date their iPod is. Pub, bookies, footy. That IS football culture, or at least it WAS. Now it seems to be pilates, quick spot of lunch, pop in Morrisons for a piss, pop and a paper, then down to the ground at 2.15 to make sure your in time for your fancy yellas burger and watered down lager. [/quote]We''re lucky at Norwich - we sell out. So yes, the NFL model of blackout unless you sell-out is perfectably viable for us. You''d be able to enjoy every Norwich home game in your local boozer.This is not the case for at least half of the Prem clubs, they DO NOT sell out every week. So why should people be able to just log on to a moody feed on the web, or pop down to the local pub to watch for free?If you can''t afford a holiday, you don''t go. If you can''t afford to go to the theatre, you don''t see the show. If you can''t afford a car, you get the bus. That is part of life.Approx. £500 is reasonable for a season of Premier League in my book. All this whinging about the "economic climate" is just boring now. People simply want something for nothing.[/quote]It''s a good job that the OP wasn''t talking about any other clubs then, he was talking about this one, and thus nothing that he said was the slightest bit disgusting. If you can''t afford a holiday, you go for a day trip. If you can''t afford to go to the theatre, you go to the cinema. If you can''t afford a car, you get a friend to give you a lift. If you can''t afford to go to the footy, you watch it down the pub. I take it you didn''t watch a single away game online last year then? I bloody did, I watched loads of them. [/quote]Football attendances could and probably will suffer if the 3pm blackout rule isn''t upheld. How can this not be a bad thing?Do you really want to watch NCFC away games online in half empty grounds like Wigan EVERY week?Sure, I feel sorry for people who have lost their jobs and now can''t afford to go etc. But we all know there will be a percantage who chose NOT to  travel to a game because it''s far easier for them to fire up their computer and watch. A massively sad state of affairs in my opinion.[/quote]I''m not saying that there are no negatives, although your Wigan example is a rubbish one, they are getting bigger attendances than ever and they are restricted by their proximity to numerous other clubs as well as their top class rugby team. You are not looking at the bigger picture, by blaming the poor bloke who started this thread. Why are pubs resorting to showing these games? It is because they can''t afford the Sky subcriptions, at least that is one reason, Sky put them up every year. It costs a pub £12k to show Sky games, £1k per month.I can tell you that there aren''t many local pubs who can afford to take £12k a year from their bottom line. But seeing as you don''t want economic excuses, it isn''t really worth me discussing that. The low cost of supermarket booze is more to blame than anything. Pubs need money, to make money they need to show footy, they can''t afford Sky, so they find another way. At current they aren''t breaking the law.If you have a problem with this then you need to write to your MP and insist that he lobby for minimum prices per unit of alcohol in supermarkets, or await the November outcome of the current court proceedings. Alternatively, you can write to the FA and complain that they haven''t contractually capped the amount that Sky charges small pubs to use their services. None of those issues can be fixed by scapegoating the OP, or indeed by typing on this forum. If you have a real problem with it, then do something about it. I''m not going to, because I couldn''t give a sh*t.

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[quote user="canarydan23"]"Although I can see the Courts saying pubs are allowed to show these channels, they will tell the channels that if they want to broadcast via satellites in the UK they with have to comply with UK law - i.e. no games at 3pm and not to infringe on the rights of SKY."

Technically, the European Court of Justice should not even consider the compliance of UK Law and the rights of a deal between two parties in one area of its jurisdiction. It has to analyse the EU trade rules with regards to the much-heralded open market. It is perfectly legal for a civilian of an EU member state to purchase a product from a company based in another EU member state and use it in their own country. No protection laws employed by a specific member state can over-rule it.

The EU advocate general has recommended that they rule in favour of the pub landlady, Karen Murphy, in this landmark case. That does not mean that the Court of Justice has to take that advice, the advocate general''s job is merely to offer public and impartial decisions on cases. However, it is a rarity that the Court of Justice ignores the advise of the advocate general.

I would imagine that the only way the Court of Justice would disagree with the advocate general would be if the influence of Sky stretches to Brussels.[/quote]Yes your right, if the free European market really existed then this should all be 100% legitimate. In fact, I hope that it is ruled legitimate. If that is over ruled, then we shouldn''t be in the European Union. Either it exists to truly provide a free and open market, or the whole thing is rendered pointless and we should withdraw from it. Otherwise we are protecting the business interests of one major corporation, Sky, and ignoring the competition facing every other industry in existance. If British people can buy German cars, then British people can buy other European television stations, simple logic if you ask me.

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[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="mrbrutler"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="mrbrutler"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="mrbrutler"]No live games on TV at 3pm on Saturday was introduced for a reason....to not harm attendances. People such as the OP ''boasting'' about how they can now watch all NCFC games without even bothring to go to a football ground is disgusting for the game in my book.Forget supporting your local boozer financially, how about supporting your local football club in the same way!The NFL has it spot on:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_on_television#Blackout_procedure[/quote]You are aware that Carrow Road isn''t large enough to accommodate everybody who wants a ticket this year? The same can be said for about 15 of the clubs in the Premier League. Maybe I would understand your concern if there were 2000 season tickets up for grabs, but there simply isn''t. Telling somebody without a season ticket to go and buy one is a little like telling somebody to walk on water. To the contrary, the club is probably 2000 season tickets short.I think that those without a ticket still being able to watch games this year is fab, and to be honest I suspect that it will help to create a new generation of fans in Norfolk. The club doesn''t currently have the ability to let kids in cheap, or have promotions to get people through the door to fill seats, so this is the second best thing.I am fortunate in that for me the cost of season ticket renewal is peanuts, but for many others - including many of my own friends - spending £500 for a season ticket and then another £500 on matchday expenses just isn''t viable right now. There are plenty of Norwich fans who simply cannot afford to buy a ST, are you saying that if you aren''t fortunate enough to fit within a certain earnings demographic you are "disgusting"?I know LOADS of old boys, in their seventies etc, who struggle to pay their gas bills each year but can recall countless tails of City games from their youth. Hardship can happen to anybody, no matter how much money you have now. Big difference between spending a fiver in the local on two pints of cheap lager and a packet of crisps and the expense associated with a footy game these days. [/quote]Further to that I can''t see anything wrong with supporting your local boozer. The pub industry is down on its knees, pubs are closing everywhere. You would be well served to remember just how close pubs and football were inter related before the working classes were priced out of games and replaced by a new breed of middle classes celebrating their faux-wealth based on over inflated property valuations and how up to date their iPod is. Pub, bookies, footy. That IS football culture, or at least it WAS. Now it seems to be pilates, quick spot of lunch, pop in Morrisons for a piss, pop and a paper, then down to the ground at 2.15 to make sure your in time for your fancy yellas burger and watered down lager. [/quote]We''re lucky at Norwich - we sell out. So yes, the NFL model of blackout unless you sell-out is perfectably viable for us. You''d be able to enjoy every Norwich home game in your local boozer.This is not the case for at least half of the Prem clubs, they DO NOT sell out every week. So why should people be able to just log on to a moody feed on the web, or pop down to the local pub to watch for free?If you can''t afford a holiday, you don''t go. If you can''t afford to go to the theatre, you don''t see the show. If you can''t afford a car, you get the bus. That is part of life.Approx. £500 is reasonable for a season of Premier League in my book. All this whinging about the "economic climate" is just boring now. People simply want something for nothing.[/quote]It''s a good job that the OP wasn''t talking about any other clubs then, he was talking about this one, and thus nothing that he said was the slightest bit disgusting. If you can''t afford a holiday, you go for a day trip. If you can''t afford to go to the theatre, you go to the cinema. If you can''t afford a car, you get a friend to give you a lift. If you can''t afford to go to the footy, you watch it down the pub. I take it you didn''t watch a single away game online last year then? I bloody did, I watched loads of them. [/quote]Football attendances could and probably will suffer if the 3pm blackout rule isn''t upheld. How can this not be a bad thing?Do you really want to watch NCFC away games online in half empty grounds like Wigan EVERY week?Sure, I feel sorry for people who have lost their jobs and now can''t afford to go etc. But we all know there will be a percantage who chose NOT to  travel to a game because it''s far easier for them to fire up their computer and watch. A massively sad state of affairs in my opinion.[/quote]I''m not saying that there are no negatives, although your Wigan example is a rubbish one, they are getting bigger attendances than ever and they are restricted by their proximity to numerous other clubs as well as their top class rugby team. You are not looking at the bigger picture, by blaming the poor bloke who started this thread. Why are pubs resorting to showing these games? It is because they can''t afford the Sky subcriptions, at least that is one reason, Sky put them up every year. It costs a pub £12k to show Sky games, £1k per month.I can tell you that there aren''t many local pubs who can afford to take £12k a year from their bottom line. But seeing as you don''t want economic excuses, it isn''t really worth me discussing that. The low cost of supermarket booze is more to blame than anything. Pubs need money, to make money they need to show footy, they can''t afford Sky, so they find another way. At current they aren''t breaking the law.If you have a problem with this then you need to write to your MP and insist that he lobby for minimum prices per unit of alcohol in supermarkets, or await the November outcome of the current court proceedings. Alternatively, you can write to the FA and complain that they haven''t contractually capped the amount that Sky charges small pubs to use their services. None of those issues can be fixed by scapegoating the OP, or indeed by typing on this forum. If you have a real problem with it, then do something about it. I''m not going to, because I couldn''t give a sh*t.[/quote]I''m no Sky apologist but it''s fairly obvious why a Pub Sky Subscription is so pricey. 200 people in 1 pub watching football for £1k a month. Or 200 people in 100 homes each paying £50 a month to watch the games...you do the math. Can''t really blame them in this cynical money-making world can you?As for your other points, I''m just giving my opinion. I will still ALWAYS go to games as apose to watching on a laptop screen or in some dodgy pub full of plastic fans. But as I say, that''s just my opinion.I guess we agree to disagree. No offence was intented to the OP. Hope he enjoys his Pork Scratchings and pint.

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[quote user="mrbrutler"]
As for your other points, I''m just giving my opinion. I will still ALWAYS go to games as apose to watching on a laptop screen or in some dodgy pub full of plastic fans. But as I say, that''s just my opinion.

[/quote]

Now you really have opened a can of worms.

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[quote user="mrbrutler"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="mrbrutler"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="mrbrutler"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="mrbrutler"]No live games on TV at 3pm on Saturday was introduced for a reason....to not harm attendances. People such as the OP ''boasting'' about how they can now watch all NCFC games without even bothring to go to a football ground is disgusting for the game in my book.Forget supporting your local boozer financially, how about supporting your local football club in the same way!The NFL has it spot on:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_on_television#Blackout_procedure[/quote]You are aware that Carrow Road isn''t large enough to accommodate everybody who wants a ticket this year? The same can be said for about 15 of the clubs in the Premier League. Maybe I would understand your concern if there were 2000 season tickets up for grabs, but there simply isn''t. Telling somebody without a season ticket to go and buy one is a little like telling somebody to walk on water. To the contrary, the club is probably 2000 season tickets short.I think that those without a ticket still being able to watch games this year is fab, and to be honest I suspect that it will help to create a new generation of fans in Norfolk. The club doesn''t currently have the ability to let kids in cheap, or have promotions to get people through the door to fill seats, so this is the second best thing.I am fortunate in that for me the cost of season ticket renewal is peanuts, but for many others - including many of my own friends - spending £500 for a season ticket and then another £500 on matchday expenses just isn''t viable right now. There are plenty of Norwich fans who simply cannot afford to buy a ST, are you saying that if you aren''t fortunate enough to fit within a certain earnings demographic you are "disgusting"?I know LOADS of old boys, in their seventies etc, who struggle to pay their gas bills each year but can recall countless tails of City games from their youth. Hardship can happen to anybody, no matter how much money you have now. Big difference between spending a fiver in the local on two pints of cheap lager and a packet of crisps and the expense associated with a footy game these days. [/quote]Further to that I can''t see anything wrong with supporting your local boozer. The pub industry is down on its knees, pubs are closing everywhere. You would be well served to remember just how close pubs and football were inter related before the working classes were priced out of games and replaced by a new breed of middle classes celebrating their faux-wealth based on over inflated property valuations and how up to date their iPod is. Pub, bookies, footy. That IS football culture, or at least it WAS. Now it seems to be pilates, quick spot of lunch, pop in Morrisons for a piss, pop and a paper, then down to the ground at 2.15 to make sure your in time for your fancy yellas burger and watered down lager. [/quote]We''re lucky at Norwich - we sell out. So yes, the NFL model of blackout unless you sell-out is perfectably viable for us. You''d be able to enjoy every Norwich home game in your local boozer.This is not the case for at least half of the Prem clubs, they DO NOT sell out every week. So why should people be able to just log on to a moody feed on the web, or pop down to the local pub to watch for free?If you can''t afford a holiday, you don''t go. If you can''t afford to go to the theatre, you don''t see the show. If you can''t afford a car, you get the bus. That is part of life.Approx. £500 is reasonable for a season of Premier League in my book. All this whinging about the "economic climate" is just boring now. People simply want something for nothing.[/quote]It''s a good job that the OP wasn''t talking about any other clubs then, he was talking about this one, and thus nothing that he said was the slightest bit disgusting. If you can''t afford a holiday, you go for a day trip. If you can''t afford to go to the theatre, you go to the cinema. If you can''t afford a car, you get a friend to give you a lift. If you can''t afford to go to the footy, you watch it down the pub. I take it you didn''t watch a single away game online last year then? I bloody did, I watched loads of them. [/quote]Football attendances could and probably will suffer if the 3pm blackout rule isn''t upheld. How can this not be a bad thing?Do you really want to watch NCFC away games online in half empty grounds like Wigan EVERY week?Sure, I feel sorry for people who have lost their jobs and now can''t afford to go etc. But we all know there will be a percantage who chose NOT to  travel to a game because it''s far easier for them to fire up their computer and watch. A massively sad state of affairs in my opinion.[/quote]I''m not saying that there are no negatives, although your Wigan example is a rubbish one, they are getting bigger attendances than ever and they are restricted by their proximity to numerous other clubs as well as their top class rugby team. You are not looking at the bigger picture, by blaming the poor bloke who started this thread. Why are pubs resorting to showing these games? It is because they can''t afford the Sky subcriptions, at least that is one reason, Sky put them up every year. It costs a pub £12k to show Sky games, £1k per month.I can tell you that there aren''t many local pubs who can afford to take £12k a year from their bottom line. But seeing as you don''t want economic excuses, it isn''t really worth me discussing that. The low cost of supermarket booze is more to blame than anything. Pubs need money, to make money they need to show footy, they can''t afford Sky, so they find another way. At current they aren''t breaking the law.If you have a problem with this then you need to write to your MP and insist that he lobby for minimum prices per unit of alcohol in supermarkets, or await the November outcome of the current court proceedings. Alternatively, you can write to the FA and complain that they haven''t contractually capped the amount that Sky charges small pubs to use their services. None of those issues can be fixed by scapegoating the OP, or indeed by typing on this forum. If you have a real problem with it, then do something about it. I''m not going to, because I couldn''t give a sh*t.[/quote]I''m no Sky apologist but it''s fairly obvious why a Pub Sky Subscription is so pricey. 200 people in 1 pub watching football for £1k a month. Or 200 people in 100 homes each paying £50 a month to watch the games...you do the math. Can''t really blame them in this cynical money-making world can you?As for your other points, I''m just giving my opinion. I will still ALWAYS go to games as apose to watching on a laptop screen or in some dodgy pub full of plastic fans. But as I say, that''s just my opinion.I guess we agree to disagree. No offence was intented to the OP. Hope he enjoys his Pork Scratchings and pint. [/quote]Indeed, we are all welcome to express our opinions, and ours just so happen to differ. Don''t ever enter into the pub trade though mate, seriously don''t. Good luck finding a pub outside of the city centre with 200 people contained within on any night. You don''t get many games for that 12k that people are interested in watching. A big four game is the only chance that most pubs have of getting any more than a dozen people through the doors on a typical weekday in this climate, even if they got 50 they wouldn''t make much money with the margins on booze being so low for most. In fact, good luck finding a pub which will even fit 200 people through the door which isn''t a chain pub or in the city centre. I''m not talking about Wetherspoons here, I''m talking about little village pubs called the Queens Head or the Kings Arms, you know.... pubs, not chain bars. How many people do you think Bolton v Stoke will attract to a small pub in Cromer or Aylsham? Half a dozen? A few pints each? And they have to pay a grand a month for that? Pah, easy to see how the formula is failing. Sky need to adapt, the solution would be to offer pubs smaller packages, let them pick 10 games for £100 a game or 20 games for £80 a game. THEN, and only then, could they just stick the Norwich, Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea, and Liverpool games on, and wouldn''t need to find loopholes. Fully legal loopholes I must add.

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Further to the comments about the extortionate rates SKY charge pubs for a licence, I spoke to the landlady of a smallish city pub and she said the bastards wanted 15k a year for the privilege to show their product. Ludicrous. As I said earlier, I hope the dirty digger fails in his attempt to stop this alternative broadcasting package. I bet the cnut is messing himself at the moment, the ugly, decrepit fossil.

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