Ricardo's report The AGM

[nutty nigel 7,651]

[quote user="The Butler"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

You''re hanging on to that driftwood by your fingernails Butler. Common sense surely tells you that this catering revenue shows a good profit. Can you give me one good reason why McNally would set so much store by it if it didn''t?

 

Catering and commercial income together amount to more than gate receipts. God help us if they represent a loss.

 

Undoubtedly McNally has increased the profitability of all areas of the club but the thing that this board has got right that the others failed for many years is in having someone who could spend the football budget to good effect.

 

The old board got a lot right off the pitch but very little right on it for their last few years.

 

 

[/quote]

Not hanging on to anything Nutty.You mistake interest for crtiticism. If you read last years and this years posts on the subject I keep asking the same questions and still no answers

I am NOT doubting a profit  but would just like to know what is fact. As you seem to be reading from the accounts perhaps you can tell me.

There is an expression that goes something like "The devil is in the detail"

As long as the club have stopped haemorrhaging money at a vast rate who cares were it comes from.

 

[/quote]

Well now Butler, here''s something radical. I believe the club still communicate with and answer fans questions in person and on web chats. I asked Delia a question on a web chat only last year because I wanted an answer. And in your position as chairman of NCISA I believe you''ve had at least one opportunity since you asked these on last years posts to ask McNally himself.

 

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

You''re hanging on to that driftwood by your fingernails Butler. Common sense surely tells you that this catering revenue shows a good profit. Can you give me one good reason why McNally would set so much store by it if it didn''t?

 

Catering and commercial income together amount to more than gate receipts. God help us if they represent a loss.

 

Undoubtedly McNally has increased the profitability of all areas of the club but the thing that this board has got right that the others failed for many years is in having someone who could spend the football budget to good effect.

 

The old board got a lot right off the pitch but very little right on it for their last few years.

 

 

[/quote]

Not hanging on to anything Nutty.You mistake interest for crtiticism. If you read last years and this years posts on the subject I keep asking the same questions and still no answers

I am NOT doubting a profit  but would just like to know what is fact. As you seem to be reading from the accounts perhaps you can tell me.

There is an expression that goes something like "The devil is in the detail"

As long as the club have stopped haemorrhaging money at a vast rate who cares were it comes from.

 

[/quote]

Well now Butler, here''s something radical. I believe the club still communicate with and answer fans questions in person and on web chats. I asked Delia a question on a web chat only last year because I wanted an answer. And in your position as chairman of NCISA I believe you''ve had at least one opportunity since you asked these on last years posts to ask McNally himself.

 

[/quote]

But you, as last year, are the one quoting the figures. Why can''t you then answer the questions.

Or do you not know the answers. If not how do you know what the FACTS are about what you quote?

[nutty nigel 7,651]

[quote user="The Butler"]

But you, as last year, are the one quoting the figures. Why can''t you then answer the questions.

Or do you not know the answers. If not how do you know what the FACTS are about what you quote?

[/quote]

Really? I thought that in both cases Ricardo reported what McNally had said.

 

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="The Butler"]

But you, as last year, are the one quoting the figures. Why can''t you then answer the questions.

Or do you not know the answers. If not how do you know what the FACTS are about what you quote?

[/quote]

Really? I thought that in both cases Ricardo reported what McNally had said.

 

[/quote]

Your honour I rest my case!

[nutty nigel 7,651]

[quote user="The Butler"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="The Butler"]

But you, as last year, are the one quoting the figures. Why can''t you then answer the questions.

Or do you not know the answers. If not how do you know what the FACTS are about what you quote?

[/quote]

Really? I thought that in both cases Ricardo reported what McNally had said.

 

[/quote]

Your honour I rest my case!

[/quote]

Tell you what I''ll do Butler. As you are too shy to ask yourself I will do it for you at the next opportunity. I used to do a similar thing for my kids when they were young.

 

[ricardo 7,416]

[quote user="Ernie"]Great report and much appreciated, but why do talk about yourself in the third person?[/quote]

Being a Gemini, I''m never quite sure which twin is in charge.

[ricardo 7,416]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="The Butler"]

But you, as last year, are the one quoting the figures. Why can''t you then answer the questions.

Or do you not know the answers. If not how do you know what the FACTS are about what you quote?

[/quote]

Really? I thought that in both cases Ricardo reported what McNally had said.

 

[/quote]To clarify.It was distinctly stated that our PROFIT from catereing was higher than the catering TURNOVER of many Premier Clubs.Make of that what you will.

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="The Butler"]

But you, as last year, are the one quoting the figures. Why can''t you then answer the questions.

Or do you not know the answers. If not how do you know what the FACTS are about what you quote?

[/quote]

Really? I thought that in both cases Ricardo reported what McNally had said.

 

[/quote]

Your honour I rest my case!

[/quote]

Tell you what I''ll do Butler. As you are too shy to ask yourself I will do it for you at the next opportunity. I used to do a similar thing for my kids when they were young.

 

[/quote]

Nice try Nutty doesn''t work though.[*] for trying

I thought you Knew and didn''t need to ask as you were the one banging the drum.

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="The Butler"]

But you, as last year, are the one quoting the figures. Why can''t you then answer the questions.

Or do you not know the answers. If not how do you know what the FACTS are about what you quote?

[/quote]

Really? I thought that in both cases Ricardo reported what McNally had said.

 

[/quote]

To clarify.

It was distinctly stated that our PROFIT from catereing was higher than the catering TURNOVER of many Premier Clubs.

Make of that what you will.
[/quote]

Ricardo I haven''t EVER said I doubt it.Profit can be arrived at by many ways.

All I want is clarification of the figures behind the statement.

[ricardo 7,416]

[quote user="The Butler"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="The Butler"]

But you, as last year, are the one quoting the figures. Why can''t you then answer the questions.

Or do you not know the answers. If not how do you know what the FACTS are about what you quote?

[/quote]

Really? I thought that in both cases Ricardo reported what McNally had said.

 

[/quote]To clarify.It was distinctly stated that our PROFIT from catereing was higher than the catering TURNOVER of many Premier Clubs.Make of that what you will.[/quote]

Ricardo I haven''t EVER said I doubt it.Profit can be arrived at by many ways.

All I want is clarification of the figures behind the statement.

[/quote]Well it doesn''t tell us in the accounts cos I''ve just had a scan through but if what Bowkett says is true then it must be pretty substantial. If there are any accountants out there perhaps they could work it from the figures presented but I have to say that its beyond my expertise.

[nutty nigel 7,651]

But you are doubting it Butler. You are trying every which way to cling on to the views you held last year.

 

In reality it''s so very simple : -

 

Gate receipts and ticket sales 6,989

Football Association and League income 1,595

Catering 3,757

Commercial 3,652

Other Income 737

 

Now this is exactly how it''s reported in the accounts and I have no reason to believe that ticket income is recorded in catering. I am quite happy to believe what I read. You are the one "banging the drum" as you put it to doubt the accuracy of these figures.

 

Why?

 

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

But you are doubting it Butler. You are trying every which way to cling on to the views you held last year.

 

In reality it''s so very simple : -

 

Gate receipts and ticket sales 6,989

Football Association and League income 1,595

Catering 3,757

Commercial 3,652

Other Income 737

 

Now this is exactly how it''s reported in the accounts and I have no reason to believe that ticket income is recorded in catering. I am quite happy to believe what I read. You are the one "banging the drum" as you put it to doubt the accuracy of these figures.

 

Why?

 

[/quote]

There you go again. I have NOT doubted the honesty/accuracy of the figures. Heaven forbid!! They are AUDITED figures.

Just interested on HOW they are madeup. No that''s an expression not an indication of a lie.

If Catering has been split on what proportion etc. Not difficult is it? Could however make a lot of difference as to where the profit comes from.

IF I let you have your business premises for free and supply the entertainment that you charge for, for nothing, then your PROFIT will be greater than if you had to pay for it. Simples.

In the end it''s a CLOSED SHOP so doesn''t alter the overall  profit/loss

 

[nutty nigel 7,651]

[quote user="ricardo"]

To clarify.

It was distinctly stated that our PROFIT from catereing was higher than the catering TURNOVER of many Premier Clubs.

Make of that what you will.
[/quote]

 

Now why do you find it so difficult to take this at it''s face value Butler?

 

 

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="ricardo"]

To clarify.

It was distinctly stated that our PROFIT from catereing was higher than the catering TURNOVER of many Premier Clubs.

Make of that what you will.
[/quote]

 

Now why do you find it so difficult to take this at it''s face value Butler?

 

 

[/quote]

Have I ever said I don''t?

Or do you just pretend you don''t understand what I am asking?

You have avoided answering because you DON''T know.

Rather than say so you twist it round. You are NOT an accountant so why should you know, all you are doing is reading a paper and taking what is stated as fact without asking what detail could be behind that fact.

By the way do you know if they ever got that Lancaster bomber down from the moon?[:D]

[nutty nigel 7,651]

OK Butler, instead of trying to be clever and condescending why don''t you help me to understand what you are asking and more importantly why you are asking it?

 

Ooops.... nearly forgot.....

[:D]

 

[Bury Yellow 2]

...... and now a look at the weather

[nutty nigel 7,651]

[vos 155]

The catering income came to £3.757 m. Without a lot of additional expensive bookkeeeping they cannot precisely state the profit as eating premises/catering equipment are all part of the Club''s general assets plus there is probably some overlap of staff costs. If these costs were all seperately charged out I would guess profit return would be around 30% i.e. say £1.2m. But as things stand with the Club making fullest use of its premises coupled with Delia''s name, and the food is pretty expensive, I would suggest the profit achieved is over £2m.

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

If the club doesn''t want to publish the annual profit figures from the catering operation then it stands to reason that they likely want to hide something from public view for some (possibly strategic?) purpose.

Although of course their view might possibly be that you should all just mind your own business!!

 

[C]

 

OTBC

 

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,651]

Does the club publish the annual profit figures from any seperate part of their business? Is it just the catering operation that they have something to hide for some strategic purpose?

 

There''s an agenda here and it''s nothing to do with the club being secretive.....

 

Maybe The Butler or Babes would care to share that with us......

 

 

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Does the club publish the annual profit figures from any seperate part of their business? Is it just the catering operation that they have something to hide for some strategic purpose?

 

There''s an agenda here and it''s nothing to do with the club being secretive.....

 

Maybe The Butler or Babes would care to share that with us......

 

 

[/quote]

Still trying to make something out of a simple question.

It''s not just the plot that thickens then[;)]

[nutty nigel 7,651]

[quote user="The Butler"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Does the club publish the annual profit figures from any seperate part of their business? Is it just the catering operation that they have something to hide for some strategic purpose?

 

There''s an agenda here and it''s nothing to do with the club being secretive.....

 

Maybe The Butler or Babes would care to share that with us......

 

 

[/quote]

Still trying to make something out of a simple question.

It''s not just the plot that thickens then[;)]

[/quote]

You could always change your username to The Bisto [:)]

 

 

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="vos"]The catering income came to £3.757 m. Without a lot of additional expensive bookkeeeping they cannot precisely state the profit as eating premises/catering equipment are all part of the Club''s general assets plus there is probably some overlap of staff costs. If these costs were all seperately charged out I would guess profit return would be around 30% i.e. say £1.2m. But as things stand with the Club making fullest use of its premises coupled with Delia''s name, and the food is pretty expensive, I would suggest the profit achieved is over £2m.[/quote]

Some costs are specific to the catering / match day bar operations, e.g., staff and their wouldn''t be a problem in indentifying and charging them to the catering segment of the business. Likewise with some assets such as the catering equipment and the related depreciation could also be charged against the business segment.

However some costs such as business rates, insurance etc.  may or may not be allocated across all the segments of a business or they may be treated as unallocated / central costs.  Thus the contribution of a business segment may include a share of say business rates or they may not.  Furthermore some businesses may or may not charge their individual segments the equivalent of a rent for the space used. 

People would need to look at the Annual Report of a business to see whether the segmental reporting explains the basis of how the revenue and costs are accounted for between the various segments of the business.

 

 

[ron obvious 1,517]

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

[quote user="vos"]The catering income came to £3.757 m. Without a lot of additional expensive bookkeeeping they cannot precisely state the profit as eating premises/catering equipment are all part of the Club''s general assets plus there is probably some overlap of staff costs. If these costs were all seperately charged out I would guess profit return would be around 30% i.e. say £1.2m. But as things stand with the Club making fullest use of its premises coupled with Delia''s name, and the food is pretty expensive, I would suggest the profit achieved is over £2m.[/quote]

Some costs are specific to the catering / match day bar operations, e.g., staff and their wouldn''t be a problem in indentifying and charging them to the catering segment of the business. Likewise with some assets such as the catering equipment and the related depreciation could also be charged against the business segment.

However some costs such as business rates, insurance etc.  may or may not be allocated across all the segments of a business or they may be treated as unallocated / central costs.  Thus the contribution of a business segment may include a share of say business rates or they may not.  Furthermore some businesses may or may not charge their individual segments the equivalent of a rent for the space used. 

People would need to look at the Annual Report of a business to see whether the segmental reporting explains the basis of how the revenue and costs are accounted for between the various segments of the business.

 

[/quote]You mean ....... you mean ......... it''s not a conspiracy to hide a £30 squillion loss???????My flabber is well & truly gasted!!

[vos 155]

I would accept it would have been nice to have been provided with a firmer indication of catering profit. This is however a modest issue compared with what is a fairly dreadful financial position.In a nutshell the Club, or more precisely Delia and hubby, have lost £12 million over the last two accounting years. Additionally it has also been admitted that they fell behind with loan repayments despite the fact that they were sitting on £7 million "receipts in advance" which mainly represent season ticket sales for the next season !!!

Was it a coincidence that several loans were being re-negotiated at the balance sheet date to confuse us!!.

Alan Bowkett/David McNally did an excellent job of showing the Club''s finances in the best possible light, but the figures make for very grim reading albeit being typical football club accounts.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

Ron,

 

Try reading IFRS 8  on Operating segments, that will send you asleep! 

While there is some analysis of turnover by types of revenue stream in the NCFC Annual Report to the 31st May 2010, the supply of additional information regarding revenues, costs and net assets  would enhance the shareholders understanding of the various business segments.