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Football Faith - And What It Really Means

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Football Faith – And What It Really Means!.

Two of your favourite posters on here are 1st Wizard and Dumbledelia Is Magic. Currently, they both appear aligned in thought process of applying pressure to the Norwich board with respect to the need to get a top striker in. even if it means spending several million pounds more than budgeted. It will, therefore, not surprise, and certainly not please many that I am launching a direct attack on both of them...but here goes.

First of all, we all note what their sign-off is for each of their postings:

DD -Keep The Faith

Wizard -Faith Be A False Prophet

Even the contradictory sign-offs seem to make strange bedfellows, don’t you think?

As I read these two popular posters as much as most of you, I found myself wondering just what these sign-offs mean to our two popular posters, how the rest of us perceive what they mean and, finally, how their apparent implied meaning stand up to the content of the posts from these two individuals. Let’s take a look and measure their performance.

Part 1 - Dumbledelia:

Aug 16th

Following criticism by others of Svennson’s performance DD says he wants to see Svennson given plenty of more games.

Sept 1st

DD says the Hucks/Doc partnership will do well for us.

Sept 1st

DD is at odds with the Wizard’s criticism of the Norwich board, saying they paid good money in a collapsing transfer market in order to acquire good quality strikers, which got us to the Premiership in the first place

Sept 21st

Responding to Wizard’s point that we should demand 10 million pounds for Greeno if the big clubs come looking, DD agrees that the fee for Greeno could push towards 10 million pounds, but certainly no less than 6 million ( big difference! ). This is obviously the groundwork by Wizard to prepare his "big spend" approach.

Sept 21st

DD says he would like McKenzie to be given his opportunity to start a game.

Oct 17th

Cityangel, having attended the game at West Brom, opines that Svennson and McKenzie will never make the grade in the Premiership. Same day DD, in true DD fashion, thanks cityangel for her input. He then appears to parrot cityangel by saying that the worry has to be lack of goals and that we can’t rely solely on Hucks.

Oct 25th

Having seen that his earlier predictions have failed to deliver against his expectations and, witnessing the popularity of Wizard’s thread attacking the Norwich board, DD decides to throw his thinking out with the wind and starts a new thread along the same lines as Wizard’s, titled "Do the club actually want to stay up". He does a reasonably good job of rationalizing how he has reached this point of seeing the light.

Now, if I were doing your report card DD, I would be asking you just what you mean by "keeping the faith". Surely you a

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Can''t see the point in this post YC, you are following the fashion of attacking fellow posters for their views instead of just offering a your differing opinion thereby forming the basis for debate which is what forums are about.

I don''t agree with all that DD and Wiz say but they make interesting reading and often give food for thought. The Forum would be of lesser quality without them.

All you will achieve I fear is  indignant response and subsequent exchange of insults which will drag on for weeks and lower the Forum down to the levels which will drive others away.

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Firstly may I just say that I generally find DD in the glass half full camp and that all posts can be measured directly by our mood on a certain day, football is all about passion and despair I would hate too look back at some of my previous posts because I remember how low I felt when I was moved to post the rants.

I would say I am probably in the half empty brigade and whilst I was generally happy with the squad I was very unconvinced by our strikeforce (to put it mildly) although as most I crossed my fingers and hoped "worthy knew best" unfortunately on the evidence so far I had every reason to doubt our stikeforce, and ironically the money spent in strengethening other areas of the team in terms of depth rather than quality would look to have been wasted.

Are Doherty, Jonson, Safri, Helveg, Bentley better than what we had ?

Ok so Charlton has proved a Gem and Jonson is showing signs that he is begining to settle, the 2 goalkeepers are obviously to keep depth in the squad when Greeno leaves.

In my opinion Svennson and Mckenzie were playing at the top of there game last season and were lucky to have the quality of Huckerby supplying them from the left.

We needed to sign a striker the same as we did the previous season and again we came up short. the board is scared of the risks involved and so bottled it again, only last season we still had the chance to put things right in time with the loan signings.

Surely Worthy should have signed a striker first before even considering other players anyway its water under the bridge. Unlike you we have to watch this team fail infront of goal on a weekly basis and we do not like the fact that not only have we not strengthened the team we also have not invested for the future so the model of our triumphant return to the premiership at the end of next season is no more than a pipedream.

Maybe it was the plan all along, take the money and run do "a Watford" but we will all have to suffer this season. Maybe I should have loaned my season tickets out till next year when we will hopefully at least be able to compete in the championship.

You obviously have far too much time on your hands.

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Yankee, I,ve read your [overlong] thread twice,and am still at a loss on what you are trying to achieve. School type reports on fellow contributors only gives the impression that you are looking down your nose with a "holier than thou" attitude ,I agree with a lot of threads on this site,but probably disagree with an equal amount,in fact I look at some of my old contributions and wonder what part of my alcohol befuddled brain I was using at the time!But I hope I never set myself up as some sort of judge of  the other contributors

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YC,

As you are with mine I am fascinated with your posts.  I am fascinated by the psychology of your posts.  It is very clear to me that you are just as passionate about Norwich as every other poster on here.  However, you feel it necessary to hide behind a cloak of sinicism and negativity.  Why this is the case is beyond me.  I would say that I knew at least one thing about every regular poster on this board.  Whether that be what they do for a living, where they live, where they sit or how they got their nickname.  I''m not an anorac for this knowledge this is just things they (and I) have revealed naturally through their posts on this board.  I however, don''t think I know anything about yourself, except the fact that you live in the Sates which, by your nickname isn''t exactly rocket science.  Anyway, I''m digressing from the point.

Football is all about opinions, right from the top down.  The Board''s opinion on who they see fit as being the best manager, the manager''s opinons on who he buys, sells and picks for the team, and of course the fans opinion on all those decisions made by board and manager!  I''m perfectly happy to give my opinion.  I would much much rather give an opinion and be proven wrong months down the line, than stay in the shadows, jump on the bandwagon and pick on a poster or idea when his/her opinions are proved wrong.  Is this what you do YC?

When I thought of my signature (Btw, I by know means think I thought it up!) in the summer, it was intended as a message to the fans.  I was all to aware of Wolves fans last year where when things we going badly, the fans got on the players and managers backs publically at the games.  I didn''t want us to do this.  Now, a few months into the season it is clear that the fans haven''t done this and I realise my signature is a bit out dated.  Indeed, I was thinking just the other day of replacing it.  Not because I or anyone else had lost the faith.  Quite the opposite- Because I knew that Norwich fans wouldn''t lose the faith and therefore didn''t need reminding.  Even if we lost every game between now and next May we would still turn up and cheer on the lads.

My two comments about Svennson which you point out, stretch over a hugely important time in the life of a football club.  August 16th- We had just played Palace and, although, many wanted a win, we were happy with a point.  By October 25th after the West Brom game, it was painfully obvious that at this time Svennson was not going to get us the goals required at this level.  I had seen him play and didn''t think he was doing enough for a Premiership team.  Is there anything wrong with this?  As a fan am I not allowed to express my opinions and views on a player?

I''m not exactly sure what criticism you are trying to level at me with regards to my comments about Green on September 21st.  I think we have one of the best talents in English football in Greeno and would hate to see him sold cheaply.  Although I think the Wiz''s valuation of £10M was too high, I wouldn''t want to see him for less than £6M which I think is a fair valuation.  Not rocket science to work out.

Bringing us onto my recent thread.  As you are clearly a fan of my quotes YC, let me offer you another.  "At the beginning of the season I was in the "enjoy it" camp, the "lets just see what happens" camp.  After the summer I thought the signings we had made were good one''s and, even though we hadn''t spent a huge amount (ok, lets be realistic we had spent very little) I was still quietly confident that we could hold our own in the Premiership."  This was at the beginning of my thread and I stand by it.  Over the summer when Wiz had a thread which was something like "yet again concrete is more important than players" or something li

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Yankee, I agree with GJ and nolegs in that this topic of yours is pointless.  Who are you to judge other peoples opinions?   Also peoples opinions change you know, its human nature.  At the moment I am championing Helveg as I think he will come good.   If he doesn''t I will change my opinion of him. 

The whole point of a forum is to share opinions, not to belittle the opinions of those that differ to yours.

Now one of the repsonse that I have taken a slight objection to is Keelan''s.  Quote:

"Unlike you we have to watch this team fail infront of goal on a weekly basis "

Just because a lot of us are not lucky enough to be at every match, it doesn''t mean that we do not share the same good and bad feelings that you do mate.   I listen on Canaries World and watch on SKY, so I have exactly the same feelings when our team fails in front of goal as you.  This whole WE, which I only assume means season tickets holders, business is rubbish.   We all support NCFC and all want them to do well.  Just because you have a season ticket it doesn''t make you a better fan than anyone else.

 

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I fail miserably in seeing how this thread was started as discussion about NCFC, can someone explain?

Also, I fail to see why DD has to justify previous comments etc.  I''m pretty sure if I dredged through all the threads a large majority of posters will have contradicted themselves at some point.  As someone pointed out football is about passion and opinions can change.

Surely Yankee it must annoy when people bring up the chesnut that you yourself are not a "real" supporter and have no idea what you are talking about due to not attending games.  We both knows that''s utter rubbish.

As for DD starting a post knowing it would be popular, I seem to remember last years thread started by yourself suggesting that Norwich should merge with Ipswich to form one club.  Later in the thread you claimed that you had started it just to provoke a reaction, what is so different about DD''s thread?

Last of all, lets talk about some football!  

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Must agree with DDIM Yankee that dissecting other peoples posts is a pretty meaningless exercise and serves to demean that particular poster of their opinions which as Stevenage Fan rightly says changes as part of human nature.  I for one change my opinions like the wind but in the big scheme of  things my opinions do not matter anyway in the running of the football club so the fact whether I want the management to spend loads on keeping us up or securing our future to stable the club is of no concern to the board but it does not stop me having that opinion or sharing it with other members of this board.  I must admit that I do not have the time to delve back into the midst of time and look at other peoples postings anyway as life goes past me too quickly for that.  For me putting a posting on the board that you have done only serves to put peoples backs up and degenerates from what are normally constructive and interesting reading from yourself.

I must pick up on a point made by DDIM where he states that he believes this year we have a great chance of staying up compared to recent years.  This I believe to be very true.  Take this wekends game for example.  Man City currently 5 points clear of us.  If we win that puts us two points behind them with us at home and them away the following game.  We now have two home games against Blackburn and Southampton.  Now I know it is asking a lot for City to now suddenly win 3 games in a row when in fact we have not managed one in 10 but if you look at the quality of the opposition we are up against then we could find ourselves in mid table come two or three weeks time.  The other side of the coin is however unthinkable but there again if we do not do the business against these sort of teams then I beg the question do we deserve to stay up.      

    

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I never change my opinion, well I do sometimes actually come to think of it I do all the time. Can you discard these comments whilst I make up my mind.Oh & DDIM I feel that with your knowledge I am being stalked thats a first.Come on lighten up you miserable old lot. We will win soon & well all be mates again.

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[quote]Football Faith – And What It Really Means!. Two of your favourite posters on here are 1 st Wizard and Dumbledelia Is Magic. Currently, they both appear aligned in thought process of applyi...[/quote]

Yankee Canary: There I was just starting to gain some measure of respect for your undoubted ''putdown'' ability, and you go and muck it up again!.

Just where do you get off?.

It does not concern me what your essay on me or DD might be, except that I hope it may give him and me a bit of a chuckle.

But, I would have thought there were more pressing matters to discuss about City, than criticising two (in your words) popular posters and their style and quotes.

There is a quote from a ''Stars Wars'' film which would seem very apt in describing you at the moment.

''He''s more machine now than man, bitter and twisted''.

May I congratulate you on scoring a ''own goal'' with your latest posting!. 

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Sorry Stevenage Fan my blood was boiling when I sent that post and I may have overstepped the mark, all I was trying to say is it is very frustrating when you get to the stage when you are dreading the next home game. I will never stop supporting Norwich City but I find it depressing that that we dont even with a fully fit squad have a team we can believe in.

I make no excuses for feeling very dissapointed in the situation (whoever is to blame is irrelevant)

 

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Am I alone here?  I''m not dreading the next home game...on the contrary, I''m really looking forward to it, as I have to all our games this season.  I felt far more nervous and uptight last season than this, possibly because I realise how tough it is now and because I feel, despite not achieving the first win yet, we have moved up a level in our overall play therefore things look a bit better for the future than they did, say, three or four years ago.  And as for not having a team to believe in, surely it depends what you are setting your sights upon.  I''d take 17th come May if they offered it now...I think most of us would, but what I do believe is that the players we have here are trying their hardest to keep us up, and, to help their effort, we need to keep showing that we believe in them.  If we don''t then the whole thing becomes much much harder than it already is, surely?

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[quote]Yankee, I agree with GJ and nolegs in that this topic of yours is pointless. Who are you to judge other peoples opinions? Also peoples opinions change you know, its human nature. At the moment I a...[/quote]

Totally agree with you stevenage fan, i live in devon so dont get much chance to go to games(man city away is my first this season) but that doesn''t make DD a better supporter than me. ive supported norwich all my life as has my father and grandfather. if anything the fact that i have lived in lots of different parts of the world and still support city just shows how much i love this football club. So dont judge us just cos we dont hold season tickets.

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Personal attacks  reflect very badly on  the attacker''s mental state ..........  apparently we must all be very careful what we post , because yc  is busy keeping tabs  and cross referencing them ! .........  bejaysus ,  it must be  good to be so right  all the time

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Well, some interesting and not totally unexpected responses. My reaction, as always, is to attempt to clarify one or two things because, it is apparent ( from some of the responses ) that some posters either do not read very well or their thought process does not behave in a manner that absorbs easily.

For example, Gorleston Jim (a very nice chap by all accounts), gets confused on what constitutes debate. Debate is argument, disagreement with, or attacking others points of view when they differ from your own His confusion seems to arise because he thinks I don’t have, or have not offered a point of view (DD seems to echo this sentiment). First of all, if you read what I consistently have to say on this subject, you can have no doubt what my point of view is on the notion of spending several million pounds beyond budget to obtain a striker.

Jim goes on to state that he fears my input will result in a) indignant responses, b) an exchange of insults and c) drive people away. Jim, I agree with a). I often draw indignant responses. I don’t agree with b) because, while insults may flow in my direction from time to time, I am not insulting others. I am attacking a point of view that I don’t agree with. I would have to be awfully arrogant to think that I am capable of driving people away from this wonderful message board. I am not, and I do not believe I will drive others away. I will leave it at that Jim because I wish to direct my remaining comments to DD.

Note to DD:

I have read your comments carefully, as I always do and almost always enjoy, whether I agree with your viewpoint or not. I like the way you are very positive and, I might add, I particularly liked your sign-off, "keep the faith!" DD, I am not challenging you as a person or, indeed as a poster of merit. On both fronts you appear to shape up admirably. What I am challenging you on is HOW QUICKLY your point of view changed with respect to the strikers we have on hand, sometimes with no more than two or three games having taken place between a positive point of view from you on a certain pairing. It is not just the difference between August 16th and Oct 25th, it is the frequently changing point of view you expressed during that time span.

Are you entitled to your point of view, and your changing point of view? Of course you are. Equally, I am entitled to my opinion on the matter.

I believe that posters on this message board, by and large, are the most passionate of Norwich supporters (I wish I could be there with them for every game). However, I believe that some of the impatience I see I on this message board can and does manifest itself through the fans at the games. We’ve seen it with some of the younger players, we’ve seen it with Svennson, we’ve seen it with McKenzie. We are seeing it with others.

 We all know that less than a year ago Leon was playing two divisions down. He had to show a lot of patience to await his opportunity because of the insertion of other players or the diamond formation. In the very few games he’s started has he missed some sitters...sure. But he’s learning and he’s willing and he''s progressing. Let’s give him a good few games to see if he develops enough confidence so that when opportunities arise, he starts to put them away. Would all of us posters (and other fans) like us to acquire a top-notch striker and a top-notch midfielder ( of Graveson’s calibre ). You bet.

The debate at hand is how much we should be prepared to pay to achieve this. I note Wizard’s point of view along with his opinion of

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yankee

you really should get out more!!!  this stuff has got to stop, you are having a go at who are IMO two of our top posters, for no other reason than to stir things again!!

whatever you think of them, both actually go to games, so i fear probably can give a clearer opinion of what went on than you, you then spend ages analysising each post!  this is scary yankee!  please seek help asap

wiz and DD

can you feel echoes of last year''s spats starting yet? 

 

 

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[quote]yankee you really should get out more!!! this stuff has got to stop, you are having a go at who are IMO two of our top posters, for no other reason than to stir things again!! whatever you think of...[/quote]

Echoes Gazza?, more like bloody shouting, yes?. Oh, happy Days are here again.

but I think we must excuse old Yankee, the full moon you see, you know what it does to him. He''s like a dog, stuck between four trees and not a leg to stand on!.

Still, thank you most sincerely for your kind words, and I know DD would echo my sentiments.

Why are you ladies always smarter than us mere males?.

Although I must say their parking ain''t all that its cracked up to be, Please don''t tell Mrs Wiz I said that though!. 

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Football Faith – And What It Really Means!.

Part 2 - 1st Wizard

THE CHARGE

That 1st Wizard fails to have faith in and provide appropriate support to the management of NCFC following their triumphant stewardship of returning Norwich to Premiership football.

THE EVIDENCE

Aug 15th

Wizard severely chastises critics of Svennson saying they have taken him from hero to zero in one easy lesson. Wizard tells other posters that he’s damn proud of Norwich City, win or lose. Suggests that others should not moan or grumble this season at all and leave players and management alone.

August 22nd

Within 6 days Wizard moves to a position that he is pained to admit that, while he loves Svennson, Leon McKenzie must start against Newcastle.

August 23rd

Wizard is "confirming" that Harewood will sign for Norwich because the Good Spirits demand it.

August 29th

Seeing that his predictions are about to "go up in smoke", an environment Wizard should be entirely familiar with, he looks for a scapegoat and begins his tirade against Delia ( which continues until the present day ), stating that her attitude will secure us another nine years in the wilderness. His faith in our wonderful owners which, shared by others, was buoyant throughout the spring and summer, has evaporated within a mere two weeks into the season.

Note: Yankee Canary begins to form a perception of what "faith be a false prophet" really means.

THE VERDICT

Guilty

THE JUDGEMENT

Wizard, while you may provide light amusement for others on this message board, you have failed to get your shoulder behind the wheel and support the Norwich management team. Further, you are behaving in a manner that is absolutely contrary to the very advice you gave to others as this season commenced. Shame on you. You clearly subordinated Delia and company to your first love which is making predictions ( wrongly, may I say ) of where we would be spending big money next.

THE PUNISHMENT

I demote you to 2nd Wizard forthwith. In addition, you are to be taken to Castle Mall where you will be locked up in stocks for a period of one week ( along with your cloudy crystal balls ) so that all onlookers passing by are reminded of what awaits those who fail to appropriately support Delia and company.

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yankee

i think you will find, that first wiz, along with many others, both on and not on this msg board were instrumental in getting rid of the previous regime which almost killed our football club

i fully understand the wiz''s mistrust of the powers that be, i can''t say i agree with him 100% of the time, but do support his right to say them.  I happen to think delia and her husband have done a fine job, against the advice (buying hucks for example) of the accountant types who really run this club.  I salute delia and having met her several times can tell you she is a genuine norwich fan, however, no one person can ever (or should ever) be in control of anything, least of all a football club (as we have witnessed before)

first wiz is still mindful of the previous regime - so am i - i guess we are in the minority (maybe because a lot of people on here were simply too young to remember!), but does that really justify all this slating of who is a loyal and lifelong supporter.  I happen to disagree almost 100% with a lot of opinions on here, and no doubt some do with me, but i don''t think anyone, not even first wiz deserves having their entire posting history slated as you have just done. 

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[quote]Football Faith – And What It Really Means!. Part 2 - 1 st Wizard THE CHARGE That 1 st Wizard fails to have faith in and provide appropriate support to the management of NCFC following...[/quote]

Yankee Canary:

You struggled with Part 2, did''nt you?. I was looking forward to a good old belly laugh at my expense, but you could''nt even manage that simple task. Others can do that quite easily, but then, they don''t get real nasty like you. 

So here is some more ammo to help you in the future.

I have always (at matches anyway!) supported and encouraged Nigel and lads, but, and this is were your assumptions on me may be accurate to a point, I have never trusted fully the board, Delia or anyone else concerned with the financial running of the club.

Until you have had first hand experience of demo meetings, etc. (Chase) you and I will never have a common point of reference to discuss this further. 

                             My Punishment:

Yet again your arrogance astounds even me, mate. It may come as a blow to your huge inflated ego, but it is not for you to decide to demote me, to 2nd or even 6th Wizard. You do not wield that kind power, oh bitter and shallow mortal that you have become.

Although being locked into stocks sounds like fun, just like Mrs does to me on a too regular basis I''m afraid!.

              So here is my verdict on Yankee Canary.

Needs serious help, very quickly. Desperately craves friendships. Should get out more.  

Hobbies include: Being a pain, winding up posters, and general arguments with anyone. Howling at the moon.

                               Punishment:

Just being Yankee Canary is punishment enough!.  

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[quote]Football Faith – And What It Really Means!. Part 2 - 1 st Wizard THE CHARGE That 1 st Wizard fails to have faith in and provide appropriate support to the management of NCFC following...[/quote]

YC,

You seem to have thrown down the same sort of "evidence" in front of the Wiz as you did with me.  The trouble is, as I didn''t accept, I''m pretty sure the Wiz won''t either!

The Wiz will always be 1st Wizard- Of the highest order!

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[quote]yankee i think you will find, that first wiz, along with many others, both on and not on this msg board were instrumental in getting rid of the previous regime which almost killed our football club ...[/quote]

YC: Your ability to score ''own goals'' mate, is outstanding!.

Gazza & DD: Thanks for your tremendous support, you have managed to bring a tear to an old 1ST WIZARD''S eye.

PS. YC: When will you ever learn?.  

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Well, well, well - a united response against a pointless post from the man cross the sea

Having been on the end of some equally pointless posts from YC it is gratifying to see other people question his motivation - I have suggested in the past that he seeks counselling to help him with his obvious state of resentment and poor self image

It is a truism that " the past doesn''t equal the future" - unless of course you live there, as YC clearly does as evidenced by his utterly pointless post

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[quote]Well, well, well - a united response against a pointless post from the man cross the sea Having been on the end of some equally pointless posts from YC it is gratifying to see other people question...[/quote]

Pearls of wisdom FMF, like you, and all the other posters it would seem, I to have wondered about YC mental state.

It is beyond my comprehension, why any poster could, or would, ''trawl'' through poster''s old posts. Some written many, many months ago!. His sole aim it would seem, was to destroy the poster''s credibility, not having any credibility now himself.

He ridiculed that superb and popular poster DD. Oh, yes, and myself, though I''m not in DD''s league I''m afraid.

The great flaw, of course, in his ranting''s, is that he makes no allowances for poster''s changing their mind, as of course, they all are perfectly entitled to do!.

His huge ego would not allow for this train of thought, or spot it however, it being consumed in his lust to prove his point.

I have never before, seen a thread on these boards, where there has been a 100% outcry/united against one particular poster. If that was his aim, well, he''s certainly achieved that!.

Or maybe, in his strange and twisted little mind, old YC was desperate to be the author of the longest thread!.

As you so rightly question FMF, this thread is/was utterly pointless, I can only suggest to posters, that it sums him up perfectly.

Now, we''ll get his retraction any day now, I expect, as he feebly tries to recover any credibility that he may have had, once, and a very long time ago!.

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YC once again a very interesting thread.

I am looking forward for part III to be completed, will it be " Duck a l''orange" or " Crispy Duck ". 

 

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[quote]YC once again a very interesting thread. I am looking forward for part III to be completed, will it be " Duck a l''orange" or " Crispy Duck ".[/quote]

morning si, nice to bump into you btw at tottenham! 

i guess we can only watch and wait for the next instalment, there can''t be many on here now who have escaped the YC wrath! 

 

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