F.A.O LINKNR9 ...YOU R EITHER AN IDIOT OR LIAR AS SECTION 5 WAS ABOUT IN 70`S

[The Fish Seller 0]

Some of you may be interested to learn that the Public Order Act 1936 was a knee jerk reaction primarily to the rise of Fascism in Europe as implemented in the UK most visibly by ex MP Oswald Mosley and his followers within the "British Union of Fascists". Shortly before this Act was drawn up, a riot occured between Mosleys men, Jews and the British Communist party in Cable st London. "The Battle of Cable street" saw Mosley get a right royal kicking as it happens and has entered popular political folklore as a key moment of the twentieth Century. Had Mosley and his men ultimately succeeded politically there probably would not have been a 2nd World War as Mosley was pally with Mussolini, and was married in Goebbels house at a ceromony attended by Adolf Hitler which meant that when war did erupt Oswald and family were interned in house arrest within a prison .  The 1986 Act came on the back of Civil unrest notably St Pauls and Handsworth etc riots, since then there has been a steady stream of pre-emptive legislation passed, I think the current definition of a riot involves a minimum of 12 agressors to satisfy the law. So not much chance of one at Poorman road eh?Oh and one last nugget for some of you on the Oswald Mosley thing.He had a son. Max!You may have heard of him he''s president of Federation International Automobile (FIA)Now some of you might understand why ''Mad'' Max Mosley took those Nazi prostitute allegations so seriously recently.I mean it must be 50 years since young Max daubed the streets of London with the BUF flash logo, I''m sure like all these ''elder brothers'' in the football fights he''s had plenty time to learn the follies of his youth[;)] 

[Camuldonum 0]

[quote user="LinkNR9"][quote user="Barclaybred"]

bro was arrested against spurs at home nov 4th 1978 ,for instigatin a riot,and was charged with section 5!!!

Plus he was also arrested against derby the same season and was again charged with causing damage(threw  crate threw clarence window were derby fans had ran),and....Section 5 causing an affray! there are 3 more in 70`s and 80`s against west ham in early 83, and most made the eastern evening news...so go to libery and read em yourself!...bro now in New zealand but he will send copies to me if you cant be       to read em at libery.....

[/quote]

Dear Barclaybred,

I am neither an idiot nor a liar; I am a professional in matters relating to the law. No ''Section 5'' public order offence existed before 1986, because offences such as affray were COMMON LAW offences, not statutory offences. Here is an extract from the statute that explains it - 

Public Order Act 1986

1986 CHAPTER 64

''An Act to abolish the common law offences of riot, rout, unlawful assembly and affray and certain statutory offences relating to public order; to create new offences relating to public order; to control public processions and assemblies; to control the stirring up of racial hatred; to provide for the exclusion of certain offenders from sporting events; to create a new offence relating to the contamination of or interference with goods; to confer power to direct certain trespassers to leave land'' et al. Affray became a statutory offence with the introduction of this Act (Section 3); Section 9 abolished the previous common law offences. I suggest that you go to the "libery" to look it up for yourself.

 

 

 

[/quote]

I''m with you on this one.  In my youth "Causing an Affray" (maximum sentence 14 years imprisonment) only triable by the (then) Assize Court - committed from the Mags Court of course.

Did several during my employment with Speller & Co, 10 Lincoln Inn Fields (Established 1880: Official Shorthand Writers to the South Eastern  Circuit of the High Court of Justice of England, Official Shorthand Writers for Her Majesty''s Wreck Commissioners, Official Shorthand Writers to Conferences of the International Division of The Red Cross, Official Shorthand Writers for Her Majesty''s Government Public Hearings, Official Shorthand Writers for the British Medical Association, Official Court Martial writers for Her Majesty''s Ministry of Defence.

At least that is what it says on the headed paper that hired me for nine months in 1961 on £16.10s.3d a week plus travelling expenses and lunch allowance of three shillings and sixpence and evening meal allowance of seven  shilling and sixpence. 

 "You are entitled to claim overnight hotel expense of up to but not exceeding Four Pounds per night.

Where you are required to provide a transcript of the evidence you have noted you will be further entitled to a payment of sixpence per page top copy and threepence per page for any subsequent copies.  Speller & Co will be responsible for providing you with an  Official Notebook but you are deemed responsible for providing and maintaining your writing apparatus.

Speller & Co reserve the right to terminate your employment without Notice upon receipt of any upheld complaint as to the accuracy of your note taking."

Can you believe I signed that?

I did.  I was only a kid and after the Laindon Recorder went tits up I wanted a job.

 

[TIL 1010 4,784]

I have been reading these threads with interest as most people on this board know that i am a retired Police Officer.I was on duty at Carrow Road that day and it was a very eventful afternoon to say the least and i have put the proper full names to the initials posted by BB.Those individuals used to travel to away games in the back of a furniture van and Mr BLACKBURN is certainly poacher turned gamekeeper from his days in the back of the van when he was employed by what is now British gas.

One of the main leaders was a guy who is now a local wrestler and Woolworths cafe (now M & S food hall) was one of their local meeting points.

LINKNR9,The Public Order Act 1936 S4 and S5 covered threatening words and behaviour.What on earth did you think happened pre 1986 about fighting in the streets before the days of Riverside and such places as Mercy nightclub.?

Maybe BB will tell us tales when Anglia Square boasted a couple of nightclubs and of the good old days at the Tudor Hall and the Samson and Hercules but they would obviously mean nothing to those who think the world as we know it only began circa.1990.

 

[Camuldonum 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

I have been reading these threads with interest as most people on this board know that i am a retired Police Officer.I was on duty at Carrow Road that day and it was a very eventful afternoon to say the least and i have put the proper full names to the initials posted by BB.Those individuals used to travel to away games in the back of a furniture van and Mr BLACKBURN is certainly poacher turned gamekeeper from his days in the back of the van when he was employed by what is now British gas.

One of the main leaders was a guy who is now a local wrestler and Woolworths cafe (now M & S food hall) was one of their local meeting points.

LINKNR9,The Public Order Act 1936 S4 and S5 covered threatening words and behaviour.What on earth did you think happened pre 1986 about fighting in the streets before the days of Riverside and such places as Mercy nightclub.?

Maybe BB will tell us tales when Anglia Square boasted a couple of nightclubs and of the good old days at the Tudor Hall and the Samson and Hercules but they would obviously mean nothing to those who think the world as we know it only began circa.1990.

 

[/quote]

Okay, here is a 2008 question.  If you knew all that "intelligence" why didn''t you stop the "furniture van" en route to an away game?  I am sure you could have found something wrong if you had really tried.

Personally, with just a few exceptions, I find it terribly hard to equate intelligence and the police force in one and the same sentence.

 

 

[The Fish Seller 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

I have been reading these threads with interest as most people on this board know that i am a retired Police Officer.I was on duty at Carrow Road that day and it was a very eventful afternoon to say the least and i have put the proper full names to the initials posted by BB.Those individuals used to travel to away games in the back of a furniture van and Mr BLACKBURN is certainly poacher turned gamekeeper from his days in the back of the van when he was employed by what is now British gas.

One of the main leaders was a guy who is now a local wrestler and Woolworths cafe (now M & S food hall) was one of their local meeting points.

LINKNR9,The Public Order Act 1936 S4 and S5 covered threatening words and behaviour.What on earth did you think happened pre 1986 about fighting in the streets before the days of Riverside and such places as Mercy nightclub.?

Maybe BB will tell us tales when Anglia Square boasted a couple of nightclubs and of the good old days at the Tudor Hall and the Samson and Hercules but they would obviously mean nothing to those who think the world as we know it only began circa.1990.

 

[/quote]Slight adjustment Officer 1010.Public Order Act 1936 Sec. 5 covered the old "conduct conducive to breach of the peace" did it not?  Probably one of the more commonly used ''chat up'' lines down the Samson[;)]BTW thanks for the memories there Tudor Hall and S&H crikey!! Though to be honest we pretty well avoided the samson since we had a sec. 5 incident with the bouncers there shortly before they beat a guy to death out the back. Remember Anglia square nightclubs well though only as far back as when it was ''Pennies'' can''t for the life of me remember what it was called before.

[TIL 1010 4,784]

What on earth has your post Camuldonum got to do with the historical observations i made about the individuals and locations from the 1970''s?

Looks to me i gave you the opening to indulge in "plod"bashing which really is a bit sad and not very mature is it?

I cannot see the word intelligence anywhere in my post nor did i know that travelling to an away game was worthy of being pulled over by the Police.

Could you enlighten me as to why you have adopted such an attitude towards the Police.?

If you have not been the subject of some sort of injustice i hope you never have the need to dial 999 requesting Police attendance having been on the receiving end of crime or involved in a road accident.Would you be so fast out of the blocks to throw insults around then?

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,598]

[quote user="Roedy Cant Fail"]

BTW thanks for the memories there Tudor Hall and S&H crikey!! Though to be honest we pretty well avoided the samson since we had a sec. 5 incident with the bouncers there shortly before they beat a guy to death out the back. Remember Anglia square nightclubs well though only as far back as when it was ''Pennies'' can''t for the life of me remember what it was called before.


[/quote]

Think they were called ''Legs'' and ''Scamps'' and don''t forget the Hofbrau House (sp?) [B][B][B][B][B][B][B][+o(]

Oh and Tilly.... were you ever on duty before the fences or were you ''born too late'' And what about that "Black Maria" that used to drive slowly from Carrow Road to the train station.. I was in the back of that when I was about 11[:$] and your boys scared the **** out of me[:S]

 

 

 

[The Fish Seller 0]

[quote user="Camuldonum"][quote user="TIL 1010"]

I have been reading these threads with interest as most people on this board know that i am a retired Police Officer.I was on duty at Carrow Road that day and it was a very eventful afternoon to say the least and i have put the proper full names to the initials posted by BB.Those individuals used to travel to away games in the back of a furniture van and Mr BLACKBURN is certainly poacher turned gamekeeper from his days in the back of the van when he was employed by what is now British gas.

One of the main leaders was a guy who is now a local wrestler and Woolworths cafe (now M & S food hall) was one of their local meeting points.

LINKNR9,The Public Order Act 1936 S4 and S5 covered threatening words and behaviour.What on earth did you think happened pre 1986 about fighting in the streets before the days of Riverside and such places as Mercy nightclub.?

Maybe BB will tell us tales when Anglia Square boasted a couple of nightclubs and of the good old days at the Tudor Hall and the Samson and Hercules but they would obviously mean nothing to those who think the world as we know it only began circa.1990.

 

[/quote]

Okay, here is a 2008 question.  If you knew all that "intelligence" why didn''t you stop the "furniture van" en route to an away game?  I am sure you could have found something wrong if you had really tried.

Personally, with just a few exceptions, I find it terribly hard to equate intelligence and the police force in one and the same sentence.

 

 

[/quote]The 2008  model policeman isn''t exactly batting on the same wicket as the 1970''s policeman.You''ll remember all the brouhaha over the introduction of the "SUS" law back in those days Camuldonum,( "Over a year of SUS and suspect indiscriminate use of the power of arrest") thing is back then it was controversial to assert authority based merely upon suspicion, you needed proof. None of that ''suspicion'' nonsense any more, just point a finger since as you so succintly remind us it''s 2008 now and 12 years of New Labour have seen introduced amongst others:Terrorism Act 2000Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005 Terrorism Act 2006 Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001The Football Spectators (Seating) Order 2008Football (Disorder) (Amendment) Act 2002Football (Disorder) Act 2000Football (Offences and Disorder) Act 1999The Police and Justice Act 2006Criminal Evidence (Anonymity Bill)pending - will allow anonymous witnessesSerious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005Control order- in direct disobeyance of Bill of Rights Act 1689Regulation of Investigatory Powers (RIP) Act 20002001 Anti-Terrorism Legislation2002 RIP Act ExtensionSuppression of anti-war protestorsCriminal "Justice" BillCompulsory National Identity CardsDNA Database2003 RIP Act Extension These are just a few that spring to mind. With todays powers Officer 1010 could have simply knocked on the van window and arrested them, and kept them for what 42 days without even producing them to a Beak. Failing to provide your name when asked is an arrestable offence nowadays it''s frightening when you think of it. In the 70''s he''d have needed to be able to prove a crime and that is sadly more social comment than comment on the police per se.

[TIL 1010 4,784]

It all comes flooding back Nutty as this time of night.I am sure the wife thinks i am on some dodgy website looking at "Frankie Vaughan" and not reliving the good old days of yesteryear.

The George and Dragon on Hayhill,The Boarshead in St Stephens, the list is endless.

As for the occupants of the police van i suspect P.C.''s JESSOP and LIMMER were there.

I feel a chat over a pint coming on Nutty.Maybe a Friday at your place?

[TIL 1010 4,784]

ROEDY CAN''T FAIL ,1010 is my car registration as my birthday is 10th October.I was P.C.717.

Useless information i know but hey knowledge is power.

[pete_norw 0]

[quote user="Badger"]What is section5?[/quote]

Mentle football thugs act,(causing an affray) and placed on a banning list 

[nutty nigel 7,598]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

It all comes flooding back Nutty as this time of night.I am sure the wife thinks i am on some dodgy website looking at "Frankie Vaughan" and not reliving the good old days of yesteryear.

The George and Dragon on Hayhill,The Boarshead in St Stephens, the list is endless.

As for the occupants of the police van i suspect P.C.''s JESSOP and LIMMER were there.

I feel a chat over a pint coming on Nutty.Maybe a Friday at your place?

[/quote]

Never let the Duchess Of Fife catch you looking at Frankie Vaughan [:O] You''re much better off staying right here on the Abraham Lincoln[Y]

The George a And Dragon was an old haunt of mine although I used The Bull And Bush on Exchange Street much more. They were owned by the same guy, Frank, who also had The Lion And Castle when it was first built. The Boars Head was my favourite pub when I was about 16[:O] Even though it was way past their era  there were still teddy boys used that pub. There used to be a band called System play there 2/3 nights a week, I remember they used to play a lot of Rolling Stones music and the like. If a fight broke out we used to just get up on the back of the bench seats and keep out of trouble, I never wanted to get my good looks messed up even in those days[;)] The teddy boys tolerated us kids for some reason and we got on ok, we went with them when the fair was on at the Old Cattle Market one night and I remembered getting chucked off for being drunk in charge of a dodgem car!!

But I have never been caught being "Brahms And Liszt in charge of a Chairman Mao [:O]

The least said about that police van the better, it was a long time ago and I was very young trying to impress my mates [:$] A chat over a pint always sounds good to me [B][Y]

 

 

 

[CambridgeCanary 0]

In Attleborough in the early seventies there were two constables who were twins and built like the proverbial.   They always seemed to be stationed on the ground side of the bridge like a modern Samson and Hercules welcoming all with a friendly but seriously intimidating attitude.   They were not men you would want to mess with.  Anyone else remember them?  I have the name Binns in my mind (sound like Derek Acorah now!! Sorry)