The Original Norwich City vs the New Norwich City

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

There is a clash between the exponents of two different concepts on this message board. They could be characterised as the Original Norwich City (ONC) concept and the New Norwich City (NNC) concept!

The ONC concept is centred on excellence of performance exemplified by astute managers such as Archie Macaulay. Ron Saunders, John Bond, Ken Brown, Dave Stringer, Mike Walker et al plus visionary leadership under men of Norfolk such as Arthur South, Geoffrey Watling and Robert Chase plus full England internationals whilst wearing the yellow and green such as Phil Boyer, Kevin Reeves, Mark Barham, Chris Woods, Dave Watson and Robert Green  plus League cup wins, FA Cup runs & semi-finals, and high Premiership finishes plus, plus, plus,  .......................... 

The NNC concept appears to be centred on the dumbing down of expectations, spin creating an artificial feel-good factor, red away shirts(!!!), restaurants, hotels,  and the increasing of shareholder value  plus managers such as Gary Megson, Brian Hamilton, Bruce Rioch, Peter Grant et al  plus self-promoting, soft-centred leadership under a woman of Surrey plus goalkeepers such as Gallacher, defenders such as Doherty, midfielders like Fotheringham and strikers such as Brown  plus 12 years of relative and rather hapless failure characterised by mid-table wretchedness in the Chumpionship interrupted by an apparently unwanted excursion into premierland accompanied by excruciatingly pathetic chants and merchandise under the rubric "We are Premiership, we are premiership, we......." plus, plus, ...................................

Regardless of the details it amounts to sustained excellence of performance versus hapless failure.

I vote ONC. [:D] 

How about you?

OTBC

[Putney Canary 0]

Thing is Bly you should really be talking about Old Football and New Football. Its the whole game that has changed, and Norwich are just adapting into the new order.

Our wonderful FA has allowed money to rule the game, whilst not ensuring upcoming players and managers have the right skills. New Football is about Russian billionaires, 30m pound gap between the Championship and the Premiership, TV rights, and all seater stadia. They are killing the game, not Delia.

Go check out other teams message boards and see the general levels of discontent, even at table topping Birmingham and premiership Middlesburgh (for example). Only the big four will ever win anything meaningful again, the rest of us are playing for crumbs.

Oh and Robert Green belongs to New Norwich and red shirts belong to both ;-)

[megson 0]

Hmm.

Robert Chase is "visionary leadership" yet the manager he appointed ''Gary Megson'' is under NNC, which is clearly a designed to be a section of ''failings'' in your mind of the current board.

Oh and I like the new away kit.

 

[macdougalls perm 0]

The only problem with this, BBB, is that you have completely ignored a little thing called context - ie how different the entire game is now compared with what it was in the hey day that you so eloquently outline. Just to take one example, the top five or six clubs in the country are now so much richer than any other clubs in the country, it is impossible to see how we would be able to attract English internationals to a club of our size with a view to having them make their career here, rather than being seen as a stepping stone to bigger and ''better'' things. Ashton, for example, was just a potential England striker and I don''t think that anyone seriously thought that he was here for any other reason than as a part of his inevitable career progression. Any club with the set up that we had in the seventies would find it extremely difficult to hold on to its players in the ridiculously commercialised set up of 21st century English football.   

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

There is a clash between the exponents of two different concepts on this message board. They could be characterised as the Original Norwich City (ONC) concept and the New Norwich City (NNC) concept!

The ONC concept is centred on excellence of performance exemplified by astute managers such as Archie Macaulay. Ron Saunders, John Bond, Ken Brown, Dave Stringer, Mike Walker et al plus visionary leadership under men of Norfolk such as Arthur South, Geoffrey Watling and Robert Chase plus full England internationals whilst wearing the yellow and green such as Phil Boyer, Kevin Reeves, Mark Barham, Chris Woods, Dave Watson and Robert Green  plus League cup wins, FA Cup runs & semi-finals, and high Premiership finishes plus, plus, plus,  .......................... 

The NNC concept appears to be centred on the dumbing down of expectations, spin creating an artificial feel-good factor, red away shirts(!!!), restaurants, hotels,  and the increasing of shareholder value  plus managers such as Gary Megson, Brian Hamilton, Bruce Rioch, Peter Grant et al  plus self-promoting, soft-centred leadership under a woman of Surrey plus goalkeepers such as Gallacher, defenders such as Doherty, midfielders like Fotheringham and strikers such as Brown  plus 12 years of relative and rather hapless failure characterised by mid-table wretchedness in the Chumpionship interrupted by an apparently unwanted excursion into premierland accompanied by excruciatingly pathetic chants and merchandise under the rubric "We are Premiership, we are premiership, we......." plus, plus, ...................................

Regardless of the details it amounts to sustained excellence of performance versus hapless failure.

I vote ONC. [:D] 

How about you?

OTBC

[/quote]

I think this is a wonderful and telling topic....and I too clearly see the divide.  For me the big difference is that the majority of NNC exponents have no knowledge of the ONC years...so can only base their principles on the now.  The NNC group have much greater comparisons to make as you have detailed above....so are surely better placed to choose.

So...definately ONC for me.....and the NNC is a shameful shadow of it''s former self.      

[ZLF 274]

So under the ONC years why didnt we continue to spend and develop to become the nations leading club?  With such visionary and insired leadership how come we did not take our league finishes of 5th and 3rd and stay there?  

Surely another view is that once we hit the top tier we failed to continue to progress as the club could have at a time when it was far easier to do so (Derby, Villa, Forest, QPR all Div 1 forces, Villa, Forest winning Euro cups - it wont happen now),  settled for top flight survival rather than showing true ambition and investing in becoming that days chelsea etc?  How could we have sold mcdougall, reeves, Fashanu or Sutton or contemplate playing a hansbury or a muzinic??

I can''t say that I agree with this view or such a simplistic split of the fan base  -  but it does scream of rampant and unacceptable rose tinted glass nostalgia gazing.    

Citys boards have ever thus under invested in the playing side of things - even when the likes of Watling exerted real influence.   For me what we have always done well as a club is picking up unwanted players from big clubs (Bowen, Crook, Hux, Robins even) and making them successful or bringing on talent from the lower leagues (Bruce, Leon, Drury).  Over the last couple of close seasons we seem tohave focused on ''seasoned'' pros at the expense of investing in a couple of talented yet high prospect players,  with an associated risk of a couple not working out. Lower wages in these players than Hughes, Thorne and Robinson means you can take that gamble.  We tried fozzy and Lappin - lappin looks like working out while Fozzy is a bit more fuzzy,  however I will take that success rate to getthe players we need tobe competetive - thats what we did in the past and it worked well - does that make me ONC or NNC???     

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="Putney Canary"]

Thing is Bly you should really be talking about Old Football and New Football. Its the whole game that has changed, and Norwich are just adapting into the new order.

Our wonderful FA has allowed money to rule the game, whilst not ensuring upcoming players and managers have the right skills. New Football is about Russian billionaires, 30m pound gap between the Championship and the Premiership, TV rights, and all seater stadia. They are killing the game, not Delia.

Go check out other teams message boards and see the general levels of discontent, even at table topping Birmingham and premiership Middlesburgh (for example). Only the big four will ever win anything meaningful again, the rest of us are playing for crumbs.

Oh and Robert Green belongs to New Norwich and red shirts belong to both ;-)

[/quote]

Putney.

In general you may be quite right.

But we are not raging about the changed circumstances which are spoiling the game in this country, taking calculated risks, standing on our feet and adapting to the new realities - rather we are being adapted and becoming supine and self-pitying. ''Poor little Norwich''.

Of course you''re probably quite right about Robert Green, although being now 27 years old and having joined as a schoolboy probably points to him having been recruited under the ONC!!

Oh, and I''d rather be ''playing for crumbs'' in the premiership with Reading, Bolton and the like. There''s no good reason that we can''t with the right leadership, business plan and balls.

Even if we can''t win the premiership (as before) there''s no good reason that we couldn''t be challenging for a UEFA Cup/Inter toto place (as before), or having Cup runs (as before), or reaching FA Cup semi-finals (as before) or developing England internationals (as before).

Cup half full - ONC

Cup half empty - NNC

Like it or not, it''s all down to leadership.

OTBC

 

 

 

 

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="megson"]

Hmm.

Robert Chase is "visionary leadership" yet the manager he appointed ''Gary Megson'' is under NNC, which is clearly a designed to be a section of ''failings'' in your mind of the current board.

Oh and I like the new away kit.

[/quote]

I checked the pet shop around the corner and they confirmed that canaries don''t come in red.[:)]

When we play away against those many teams whose default colour is red, we shall have to don our home kit of yellow and green. Hooray!

Yellow and green is our kit d*mn it, not our home kit.

Yellow and green is rare and a marketing man''s dream. You should see the trailers promoting the EPL on Fox Soccer Channel (even although we are 2 years out of the EPL) - they nearly all carry NCFC action clips because our club colours are unique in England.

[:D]

 OTBC

 

[Cantiaci Canary 557]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

There is a clash between the exponents of two different concepts on this message board. They could be characterised as the Original Norwich City (ONC) concept and the New Norwich City (NNC) concept!

The ONC concept is centred on excellence of performance exemplified by astute managers such as Archie Macaulay. Ron Saunders, John Bond, Ken Brown, Dave Stringer, Mike Walker et al plus visionary leadership under men of Norfolk such as Arthur South, Geoffrey Watling and Robert Chase plus full England internationals whilst wearing the yellow and green such as Phil Boyer, Kevin Reeves, Mark Barham, Chris Woods, Dave Watson and Robert Green  plus League cup wins, FA Cup runs & semi-finals, and high Premiership finishes plus, plus, plus,  .......................... 

The NNC concept appears to be centred on the dumbing down of expectations, spin creating an artificial feel-good factor, red away shirts(!!!), restaurants, hotels,  and the increasing of shareholder value  plus managers such as Gary Megson, Brian Hamilton, Bruce Rioch, Peter Grant et al  plus self-promoting, soft-centred leadership under a woman of Surrey plus goalkeepers such as Gallacher, defenders such as Doherty, midfielders like Fotheringham and strikers such as Brown  plus 12 years of relative and rather hapless failure characterised by mid-table wretchedness in the Chumpionship interrupted by an apparently unwanted excursion into premierland accompanied by excruciatingly pathetic chants and merchandise under the rubric "We are Premiership, we are premiership, we......." plus, plus, ...................................

Regardless of the details it amounts to sustained excellence of performance versus hapless failure.

I vote ONC. [:D] 

How about you?

OTBC

[/quote]

 

I think you can always cherry-pick the good points of the nostalgic past and the bad points of current times ... particularly as the club today is fighting through a change ... always hard when a long term manager departs following poor performances mid-season.

The exciting thing about football for me ... looking at it historically, is that it is organic. It changes with the times for better or worse and that''s what keeps it so relevant, popular and fresh. You can''t halt time and change - no-one ever has ... and romantising the past is never accurate or fair.

[nutty nigel 7,535]

My first game at Carrow Road was in February 1967 to see Norwich City play Sheffield Wednesday. Today I am going to Carrow Road to see Norwich City play Southampton. In between I have seen all the players listed and many more play under all the managers listed and some more. The one thing I am very sure of is that there''s only one Norwich City!

The thread brings back memories though, who else remembers David Stringer scoring that goal at Watford to win us the championship under Ron Saunders in 1972 wearing that red away shirt.