Worthington or Grant

[ricky knight 0]

we did not get to a play off final and win promotion losing away games, yes we were bad for the last couple of years but the board should have had some bottle after fulham.

[CambridgeCanary 0]

[quote user="lucky green trainers"]we seem to be winning more games away under grant than worthy, as well as having the usual no-shows, but on the negative side - FCR is no more, mind you - it was already weakened under worthy. 


[/quote]

FCR died on the steps of City Hall at the Championship celebration and has not been seen since.  That is almost three years ago.   Good teams and dross have gone away with plenty of points since then.  I also believe that Worthy''s career plummetted at the same time though it took another 18months before his loss of grip became evident.  We can look back now and see that the Prem season was lost before it started because of the poor choices made by the Club (Worthy?????) in the preseason but I am not sure that it was obvious at the time.

[a1canary 0]

[quote user="CambridgeCanary"]

[quote user="lucky green trainers"]we seem to be winning more games away under grant than worthy, as well as having the usual no-shows, but on the negative side - FCR is no more, mind you - it was already weakened under worthy. 

[/quote]

FCR died on the steps of City Hall at the Championship celebration and has not been seen since.  That is almost three years ago.   Good teams and dross have gone away with plenty of points since then.  I also believe that Worthy''s career plummetted at the same time though it took another 18months before his loss of grip became evident.  We can look back now and see that the Prem season was lost before it started because of the poor choices made by the Club (Worthy?????) in the preseason but I am not sure that it was obvious at the time.

[/quote]Agreed - almost. Two words that could have meant this forum today was full of discussions about our next premiership fixture. LINVOY PRIMUS. Could he have saved us 3 points over the course of the whole season? You bet he could.If i could ask NW one question it would be, "how instrumental was the failure to sign Linvoy Primus or any remotely similar type and quality of defender subsequently, in our relegation from the premiership?" What really gets to me is that LP has really shown how right NW was to try so hard to get him, and that having failed, he settled on Simon Charlton and later Gary Doherty. Primus has proved himself to be worth 10 of each of them!!

[Indy_Bones 441]

Can''t quite agree with that one Smudger.Newell has already been sacked as has Dowie, who incidentally was apalling at Charlton and signed some total turkeys for good money, Simpson is doing well - considering that it''s with the team that Billy Davies built...funny how this isn''t being taken into account.And obviously Tilson is highly talented, in fact he''s a real magician, just look how quickly he''s made Southend disappear from the championship! Obviously there really was nothing up his sleeves...Royle might have been ok, but to be honest I still think Grant will prove to be a very shrewd choice, especially compared to two of the other main candidtates - Bryan Robson and Graeme Souness who would both have been dire.Let''s face it, with the current squad, ANY manager would have struggled to get results, at least we''ve seen the signs of a good manager in that he''s giving youth a chance - along with loaning players out for playing experience, he is willing to drop/sell players he doesn''t think are up to the job, and he''s trying to bring decent players in for good money. Marshall was looking superb and if by some chance we do get him permanently it will be a top class signing, Lappin has easily proven he''s worth 3 or 4 times what we paid for him, and Fozzy although not being amazing so far, has cost us nothing but wages, and if we''re not keen, we just let him go in the summer - very sensible management. I also see a lot of potential in Brown, although admit I seem to be in the minority in this view.I know you and Cluck want the board out, and seeing as how they''re the ones controlling Grant''s spending, how did you expect him to go out and sign top players without any money? It wouldn''t matter if we got Alex Ferguson in to sign players if the board won''t stump up the cash. That is not Grant''s fault, but by association he''s getting unfairly blamed and criticised for it.If they give him the money in the summer and he signs a bunch of donkeys along with keeping some of our exisiting ones, I''ll join in the criticism, but surely we can wait to see what happens before slating the guy before he''s been given a chance to truly bring his own players in?

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]Can''t quite agree with that one Smudger.

Newell has already been sacked as has Dowie, who incidentally was apalling at Charlton and signed some total turkeys for good money,

Simpson is doing well - considering that it''s with the team that Billy Davies built...funny how this isn''t being taken into account.

And obviously Tilson is highly talented, in fact he''s a real magician, just look how quickly he''s made Southend disappear from the championship! Obviously there really was nothing up his sleeves...

Royle might have been ok, but to be honest I still think Grant will prove to be a very shrewd choice, especially compared to two of the other main candidtates - Bryan Robson and Graeme Souness who would both have been dire.

Let''s face it, with the current squad, ANY manager would have struggled to get results, at least we''ve seen the signs of a good manager in that he''s giving youth a chance - along with loaning players out for playing experience, he is willing to drop/sell players he doesn''t think are up to the job, and he''s trying to bring decent players in for good money. Marshall was looking superb and if by some chance we do get him permanently it will be a top class signing, Lappin has easily proven he''s worth 3 or 4 times what we paid for him, and Fozzy although not being amazing so far, has cost us nothing but wages, and if we''re not keen, we just let him go in the summer - very sensible management. I also see a lot of potential in Brown, although admit I seem to be in the minority in this view.

I know you and Cluck want the board out, and seeing as how they''re the ones controlling Grant''s spending, how did you expect him to go out and sign top players without any money? It wouldn''t matter if we got Alex Ferguson in to sign players if the board won''t stump up the cash. That is not Grant''s fault, but by association he''s getting unfairly blamed and criticised for it.

If they give him the money in the summer and he signs a bunch of donkeys along with keeping some of our exisiting ones, I''ll join in the criticism, but surely we can wait to see what happens before slating the guy before he''s been given a chance to truly bring his own players in?
[/quote]

To match Newell''s achievements so far Grant would need to get Norwich promoted and keep them there for a season...  to match Tilson''s he would have to get Norwich promoted and follow that up with leading them in to Europe the following season (considering that Tilson has 2 promotions on the trot I think that it would be a miracle if he kept Sothend in the Championship... something that he still has a chance of doing).

Paul Ince has done well to keep Macclesfield in the league this season (considering that they were 7 points off second bottom when he took over from Brian Horton).

Paul Simpson has been in charge at Preston for a good while now... it is his team.... just as our team will be Grant''s come the start of next season, so lets have no more excuses for him next year hey???

As for Robson and Souness... I agree with you that they are both c**p managers.... Souness could be helpful in our boardroom in my opinion however (and don''t go giving me the anal debate that he is a useless manager trying to get himself a new job as a football manager).

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]Can''t quite agree with that one Smudger.

Newell has already been sacked as has Dowie, who incidentally was apalling at Charlton and signed some total turkeys for good money,

Simpson is doing well - considering that it''s with the team that Billy Davies built...funny how this isn''t being taken into account.

And obviously Tilson is highly talented, in fact he''s a real magician, just look how quickly he''s made Southend disappear from the championship! Obviously there really was nothing up his sleeves...

Royle might have been ok, but to be honest I still think Grant will prove to be a very shrewd choice, especially compared to two of the other main candidtates - Bryan Robson and Graeme Souness who would both have been dire.

Let''s face it, with the current squad, ANY manager would have struggled to get results, at least we''ve seen the signs of a good manager in that he''s giving youth a chance - along with loaning players out for playing experience, he is willing to drop/sell players he doesn''t think are up to the job, and he''s trying to bring decent players in for good money. Marshall was looking superb and if by some chance we do get him permanently it will be a top class signing, Lappin has easily proven he''s worth 3 or 4 times what we paid for him, and Fozzy although not being amazing so far, has cost us nothing but wages, and if we''re not keen, we just let him go in the summer - very sensible management. I also see a lot of potential in Brown, although admit I seem to be in the minority in this view.

I know you and Cluck want the board out, and seeing as how they''re the ones controlling Grant''s spending, how did you expect him to go out and sign top players without any money? It wouldn''t matter if we got Alex Ferguson in to sign players if the board won''t stump up the cash. That is not Grant''s fault, but by association he''s getting unfairly blamed and criticised for it.

If they give him the money in the summer and he signs a bunch of donkeys along with keeping some of our exisiting ones, I''ll join in the criticism, but surely we can wait to see what happens before slating the guy before he''s been given a chance to truly bring his own players in?
[/quote]

It''s not that I want Grant out....I just didn''t want him (or his type) given the job in the first place.  He is just another dour bore to follow on from DS''s other dour and boring losers.

Can''t blame Grant?  True...as I''m sure no wannabe manager/employee would turn down a nice pay day and the chance to "practice" somewhere before moving up the ladder at the earliest opportunity. However...being as it is my club and the one I have supported since before he was born....the sooner he clears off (along with his employers) the happier I will be.  Then maybe we will see a resurgence of this once proud club and get it back to it''s grass roots.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]

Marshall was looking superb and if by some chance we do get him permanently it will be a top class signing,
[/quote]

Not really the main point of your whole post but...

Marshall looked...decent. He was a long way off being ''superb''. He''d be a good signing if we paid a very reasonable fee for him.