OK, Lets see what this forum thinks...

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="Smudger"]

 

I answered for you Wiz

[/quote]

Oops!, I missed that Smudger, but cheers anyway. Are we now the gang of three then?.[;)]

But you are right of course mate, you, Cluck and I DO disagree on certain matters, but we''ve always been united against this woman.

That must say something.

[Canary02 0]

[quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="Smudger"]

 

I answered for you Wiz

[/quote]

Oops!, I missed that Smudger, but cheers anyway. Are we now the gang of three then?.[;)]

But you are right of course mate, you, Cluck and I DO disagree on certain matters, but we''ve always been united against this woman.

That must say something.

[/quote]

Misery loves company?

[macdougalls perm 0]

Wiz wrote "But you are right of course mate, you, Cluck and I DO disagree on certain matters, but we''ve always been united against this woman.

That must say something."

I''m sure it does, though I''m not sure who about[:D][;)]?

[still holding out for new heroes 0]

Out...it comes down to cold hard cash...we need it...she hasn''t got enough...

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="a1canary"][quote user="jas the barclay king"]

in the 90''s it was "norwich city- passing football and hard to beat!" now its "Norwich city.. come have a cuddle with Delia!" and thats the wrong attitude. we are a football club, not a business center. hotels, Travel agents, Car Dealers, Resturants.. thats where the money has been pumped into... not on the 11 men who pull on the jersey.

jas :)
[/quote]

Oh my god - your arguments are so mixed up jas! On the one hand you''re bleeting about resources not being made available to the manager, then you complain about the club diversifying and growing its income streams. Not a business centre? Er, wake up! We HAVE to run as a viable business and to treat ourselves as a business if we are to survive. That''s what ALL successful football clubs do. The travel business, restaurants, financial products etc are all there for ONE purpose and one purpose only - to generate income for the football club. Which can then be spent on the squad and further enhancing facilities to grow our income such as the stadium and the academy.

p.s. any thoughts on this yet? http://new.pinkun.com/cs/forums/3/878971/ShowPost.aspx#878971
[/quote]

a1, how do you define a "successful" football club.  One which makes a substantial profit compared with its contemporaries, as we have done in the past two dismal seasons, or one which is successful on the field of play?   Not that the two are mutually exclusive in any case.  We generated far more income from a single season in the Prem than from the travel business, restaurants, financial products, etc. added together and multiplied. 

Football is NOT a business like any other.  The problem is that Norwich City is being run as though it was.  The primary objective of an ordinary business is to make a profit.  For a club the size of ours, a substantial profit is undesirable because the taxman swipes so much of it - £2.5 million in profits tax in the past two seasons.  A big club can perhaps afford to give that money away, but we can''t.  The object should be to break even.  Had we aimed to break even in the past two seasons and invested most of what would otherwise have been a profit in the football side, I suggest we would not be in the position we are now.

 

 

 

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="yellow hammer"][quote user="Canary02"]

The focus is again on the wrong person. Delia Smith is just one person on a board. The question shouldn''t be about her, but the collective, unless anybody who posts on here knows what the political make-up of the board is like and who pulls the strings daily (and I mean in reality rather than in imagination), then no one person should be singled out. Or do some fans know the name of a celebrity on the board but struggle with the lesser-known names, who may in fact keep lower profiles but be more involved in the making of incorrect decisions.

As others have said, even the question of whether the board should step down or not is moot because without an offer on the table for their shares, it doesn''t matter whether some people want them gone or not.

Maybe I''m old-fashioned, but I think to a man (or woman) they are all good people, genuinely interested in working for the best interests of the club, and as such I think we should treat them with respect.

As to their competency, that''s the interesting question. And well worthy of a debate or two. Once all the silly bile and childish name-calling is over and done with.

On the plus-side, they have given us stability in the wake of the Chase departure. They presided over a successful promotion campaign (although like any on-pitch scenario, good or bad, I attribute that to the manager and players). And the non-footballing revenue has increased dramatically with creative revenue-streams being regularly developed.

On the minus-side, they treated Mike Walker poorly and never gave him a chance to see the side that he had begun to put together find their feet (Iwan, Flem, Eadie, Bellamy, etc), they have presided over an unsuccesful period since the promotion campaign, they kept faith with Nigel Worthington for far too long which allowed him to decimate our squad to its current level and left us with so little in the transfer and wage kitty that Peter Grant is struggling to keep us up, let alone turn things around.

My feeling is that with this board we have stability. They will provide funds commensurate with a mid-table Championship side. Perhaps we should be doing better in that respect when you consider the ticket revenue that must be coming in. But, without knowing how much we are still paying in wages to players who got lucky with a fat contract they have failed to live up to, it''s difficult to say. If we''ve paid 2 grand a week over the odds on 5 or 6 contracts that still have time to run, that probably knocks out the advantage we have over clubs of a similar stature but with lower crowds. And I don''t attribute that to the board as a mistake. On the contrary I applaud them for leaving the decision on this to the manager. The fact that he made poor choices is irrelevant. He was the football expert, so they let him make the decision. They should have sacked him after he failed to replenish the squad with the money from Ashton. But then, I''d rather have a loyal board than one that changes managers every five minutes.

So are they competent? I think so. With a good manager City can get promoted. With a bad manager they can get relegated. We''ll never go bankrupt with them, although I don''t know whether we''ll ever break into the Top 10 of the Premiership either, no matter how good the manager, because we are so far behind now in the cash race, and the board don''t have the funds to compete, through no fault of their own. They''re ambition and view of the club''s standing may be a little less competitive than some would like, and possibly I agree, but pushing the finances that extra yard doesn''t guarantee success. Perhaps they thought they were being ambitious when Nigel Worthington asked them for a bigger wage deal than they may have been comfortable with for 32 year-old Peter Thorne or 30 year-old Matthieu Louis-Jean and they agreed. Decisions like that can come back to haunt you and we''re still paying these people now, so the mistake is still reverberating. They''ve made mistakes, but I don''t feel the need to punish them for it, because they were all honest mistakes made in good faith. So I back the board. And I''m grateful that we have them and not some others.

[/quote]

 

Spot on in your analysis.Canary02. The Board has the club''s interests at heart and that includes Delia, so my vote is IN. However, the Board''s performance has to improve on the past three season and they must inject some good footballing ''nous'' into the make-up of the Executive. Perhaps someone of the ilk of Dave Stringer who can vet the footballing decisions; and someone with a bit of raw business skill who can negotiate hard deals with agents. I think a background in publishing lifestyle magazines is not the best preparation for managing a football business, so they need to get someone ''on board'' with the requisite skills.

Yellow Hammer

[/quote]

Robert Chase and his board had the clubs best interest at heart too.. but it was "fat bob" who the fans were calling for.. not his board.. the situation is exactly the same with Delia.. the buck stops with the person at the top... its the same everywhere.

jas :)

[a1canary 0]

[quote user="mystic megson"][quote user="a1canary"][quote user="jas the barclay king"]

in the 90''s it was "norwich city- passing football and hard to beat!" now its "Norwich city.. come have a cuddle with Delia!" and thats the wrong attitude. we are a football club, not a business center. hotels, Travel agents, Car Dealers, Resturants.. thats where the money has been pumped into... not on the 11 men who pull on the jersey.

jas :)[/quote]Oh my god - your arguments are so mixed up jas! On the one hand you''re bleeting about resources not being made available to the manager, then you complain about the club diversifying and growing its income streams. Not a business centre? Er, wake up! We HAVE to run as a viable business and to treat ourselves as a business if we are to survive. That''s what ALL successful football clubs do. The travel business, restaurants, financial products etc are all there for ONE purpose and one purpose only - to generate income for the football club. Which can then be spent on the squad and further enhancing facilities to grow our income such as the stadium and the academy. p.s. any thoughts on this yet? http://new.pinkun.com/cs/forums/3/878971/ShowPost.aspx#878971[/quote]

We generated far more income from a single season in the Prem than from the travel business, restaurants, financial products, etc. added together and multiplied. 

[/quote]Of course we did - why else is the premierhsip seen as the ''promised land'' of endless riches. But, in case you haven''t noticed, we''re not in the premiership, not have we been for anything other than 1 of the last 15 years. As a result, other income streams need to be found to supplement the main business of the club, which IS the playing side. Why can''t you see that? Why do so many get all dewey eyed about the playing side as it should be somehow exempt commercial reality. It''s not. Football is a business - one with some unique characteristics that seperates if from other businesses, but make no mistake, if you don''t treat it like a business, it will go bust like any other. Yes we can make a profit and perform badly on the pitch, but that''s not sustainable for more than a year or two - if we perform badly on the pitch, we''ll go down the leagues, attendances and merchandising will drop, and income and hence profitability will evaporate. It''s really very simple - if the team performs, we make money, if it doesn''t we lose it and both scenarios are self perpetuating.

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="a1canary"][quote user="mystic megson"][quote user="a1canary"][quote user="jas the barclay king"]

in the 90''s it was "norwich city- passing football and hard to beat!" now its "Norwich city.. come have a cuddle with Delia!" and thats the wrong attitude. we are a football club, not a business center. hotels, Travel agents, Car Dealers, Resturants.. thats where the money has been pumped into... not on the 11 men who pull on the jersey.

jas :)
[/quote]

Oh my god - your arguments are so mixed up jas! On the one hand you''re bleeting about resources not being made available to the manager, then you complain about the club diversifying and growing its income streams. Not a business centre? Er, wake up! We HAVE to run as a viable business and to treat ourselves as a business if we are to survive. That''s what ALL successful football clubs do. The travel business, restaurants, financial products etc are all there for ONE purpose and one purpose only - to generate income for the football club. Which can then be spent on the squad and further enhancing facilities to grow our income such as the stadium and the academy.

p.s. any thoughts on this yet? http://new.pinkun.com/cs/forums/3/878971/ShowPost.aspx#878971
[/quote]

We generated far more income from a single season in the Prem than from the travel business, restaurants, financial products, etc. added together and multiplied. 

[/quote]

Of course we did - why else is the premierhsip seen as the ''promised land'' of endless riches. But, in case you haven''t noticed, we''re not in the premiership, not have we been for anything other than 1 of the last 15 years. As a result, other income streams need to be found to supplement the main business of the club, which IS the playing side. Why can''t you see that? Why do so many get all dewey eyed about the playing side as it should be somehow exempt commercial reality. It''s not. Football is a business - one with some unique characteristics that seperates if from other businesses, but make no mistake, if you don''t treat it like a business, it will go bust like any other. Yes we can make a profit and perform badly on the pitch, but that''s not sustainable for more than a year or two - if we perform badly on the pitch, we''ll go down the leagues, attendances and merchandising will drop, and income and hence profitability will evaporate. It''s really very simple - if the team performs, we make money, if it doesn''t we lose it and both scenarios are self perpetuating.
[/quote]

a1, you''re the one who''s in lala land if you think the real problem is that the team is "not performing".  You cannot be serious.  I thought it was obvious to everyone by now that our squad is not big enough or strong enough to compete at the top of this division, where we ought to be.  We didn''t invest in rebuilding the squad after relegation, and so your self-fulfilling prophecy is duly fulfilling itself. 

There is absolutely no reason why this club shouldn''t be in with a shout of a top six finish, and therefore a genuine chance of promotion, every season.  We don''t need a superbillionaire to do it, either.  Do you think that''s overambitious or unrealistic?

btw, you don''t help your case by being economical with the facts.  This is the 12th season since we were relegated last time, not the 15th.  Talking of which, why did we nearly go bust in 1995/6?  By spending too much on players?  Or by losing our Premiership income through selling our best players and not replacing like with like? 

PS.  Would you like to address my point about profit being a hindrance to a club the size of ours, because of the amount we lose in profits tax?

 

 

 

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="jimmy500"]

In, In, In.  Delia is helping to develop the club.  Look away from the football, which I agree is woefully inadequate at the moment and look at the business side of things.  Successful restaurants, successful conference venue and probably soon to be a successful hotel; we own most of the land around the club including our own stadium.  We have a manageable net debt, which is more like a mortgage than a debt.  We have a youth system with academy status that now the travelling rules are being relaxed has a very real chance of producing talent again.  This is the infrastructure of the club, this is the bit that Delia and Co (Incl. Doncaster!!) ARE getting RIGHT.

Yes the football side is rubbish and yes our league position is utterly unnacceptable.  But we can work on this when the infrastructure starts kicking into place.

Please though can all the posters onto this thread stop harping on about beating Bayern and finishing 4th in the league.  That was nearly 15 years ago.  Stop Stop Stop regressing back to the past.  Forest, Villa and Ipswich have all won european cups, league titles and european cups and look at them.  Football, Delia, Norwich City, whatever, lets concentrate on now and tomorrow.   Forget yesterday, it was just a nice memory.

That said though, and to totally contradict myself........If there is a russion billionaire with a few roubles burning a hole...........or if Bernard wants some replacement turkeys........... 

[/quote]

God help us.........Pass the bucket          [+o(]

[ricky knight 0]

[quote user="-.-. .-.. ..- -.-. -.-"][quote user="jimmy500"]

In, In, In.  Delia is helping to develop the club.  Look away from the football, which I agree is woefully inadequate at the moment and look at the business side of things.  Successful restaurants, successful conference venue and probably soon to be a successful hotel; we own most of the land around the club including our own stadium.  We have a manageable net debt, which is more like a mortgage than a debt.  We have a youth system with academy status that now the travelling rules are being relaxed has a very real chance of producing talent again.  This is the infrastructure of the club, this is the bit that Delia and Co (Incl. Doncaster!!) ARE getting RIGHT.

Yes the football side is rubbish and yes our league position is utterly unnacceptable.  But we can work on this when the infrastructure starts kicking into place.

Please though can all the posters onto this thread stop harping on about beating Bayern and finishing 4th in the league.  That was nearly 15 years ago.  Stop Stop Stop regressing back to the past.  Forest, Villa and Ipswich have all won european cups, league titles and european cups and look at them.  Football, Delia, Norwich City, whatever, lets concentrate on now and tomorrow.   Forget yesterday, it was just a nice memory.

That said though, and to totally contradict myself........If there is a russion billionaire with a few roubles burning a hole...........or if Bernard wants some replacement turkeys........... 

[/quote]

God help us.........Pass the bucket          [+o(]

[/quote]

the Bayern era was brought up because certain young fans or elder ones with amnesia believe we have had our best medi cred under HRH Delia, Yea right.

[Chunky Norwich 0]

I don''t want Delia out and mainly because I think it would be virtually impossible to force her out if she doesn''t want to go. Matches could be boycotted and such forth but our finances will be irreversibly crippled and we''ll be relegated before she''d ever throw in the towel. She''s a determined old so-and-so and fair play to her I suppose. I DON''T want her out but I would like to point out a few commonly cited defences of her that annoy me greatly.

1. "Delia raises the profile of NCFC". No she doesn''t. Norwich City Football Club raises the profile of Delia Smith and I will argue that until I''m blue in the face. Both NCFC and Delia Smith are synonymous and Norwich City gets far more press coverage and individual articles than Delia ever has. Whenever I tell someone I support Norwich, the instant reaction is "Oh Delia Smith''s club?". And BBC and Sky cameras are always trying to show her at any Norwich game they cover. If NCFC and Delia were not linked, which of the two of them would be more in the public limelight and newspaper columns?
2. "Delia is our chairmen". No she''s not and I feel this highlights just how linked she is with our club; that even our own supporters get confused as to what her actual role at the club is and how she overshadows Roger Munby so much. She''s a majority shareholder, not a chairperson.
3. "Delia is a life-long Norwich supporter". She supported Ipswich until she met Michael Wynn-Jones and he ''converted'' her.

There are a few more things which annoy me but these are more conjuncture and I can''t argue that well for them (e.g. Watling saving the club and not Delia - which was a little before my time but I am aware it - and the fact that while she may support the club, she hasn''t a clue as to how to actually run it). I know that this is a great source of debate but the "little old Norwich" mantra which, while never expressed ver batum, is fairly annoying to me as well. It does seem to me that Delia is overshadowing the club in a big way and it''s her philosophies and take on football which is being employed. I like her and her hearts in the right place, but these qualities are equally attributable to my mum and I don''t think I''d be totally happy if she was in charge of NCFC.

Oh and don''t even get me started on singing ''On The Ball City'' as a hymn in the RC cathedral!