Rebuilding Norwich City

Carlos Valderrama · January 31, 2007

First point, Peter Grant is doing OK. He is not here to make friends, has no room for sentiment (Fleming) and is struggling to get anything from the rubbish he has to work with (McVeigh, Thorne). He is a rookie manager who clearly wants to succeed. He may be using NCFC as stepping stone to better things, but he has to succeed here to get a chance somewhere else.

He is getting the kids out on loan, I think to see who has got what it takes. I for one will be interested to see Henderson after his loan spell, he looks like he has some ability and I think just needs a little confidence and some serious 1st team experience.

He is trying to cut the wage bill (I bet Flem earned a bomb). And he is also trying to bring in younger players (23/24/25).

I reckon that the club is going through a transitional stage and that is going to take time. The killer question is, has everyone got the patience to wait 1,2 possibly 3 years for things to start working.

For me personally, I haven''t missed a home game for 5 seasons. Will I re-new my season ticket, NO I am going to play golf instead....sorry, but my die hard fan attitude has just disappeared, I am bored of watching mediocre football. I am even starting question whether I like football at all anymore.

Salopian · January 31, 2007

Good post! I agree with everything. It may be that with some slightly different decisions by PG we could be higher up the table, but given the present squad of seniors and juniors we do not seem to have anywhere near a promotion side.We shall probably have only one more year of Hux, at his best or at all, and perhaps Martin and Spillane will come good, but this is hardly the nucleus of a Premiership team. It is back to the drawing board and re-building, adding quality when we can. One January window with limited funds is not going to turn us into champions. We know we have deadwood to clear, and he has made a start on this, and it''s very unlikely that we shall have the money to build a complete squad in the summer.I think that he has recognised that things have been allowed to go downhill for too long, and that we are lacking even a nucleus to mount much of an immediate challenge. If he has, he is right.In the meantime, he was at Molineux on Sunday to see Wolves lose to West Brom, he has seen the youth teams, he has been making endless phone calls although let down on promises. We can''t fault his efforts, and while some of us may differ over tactics with him, he is the man who knows the full facts.

Cluck · January 31, 2007

Trying to rebuild this club with Grant and DS in charge would be like laying foundations on shifting sands. DS and her cronies must go, taking Grant with them. We need to return to our grass roots and bring back the club''s sense of place... this being representative of the City of Norwich and County of Norfolk.....not Delia Smith''s celebrity tv persona. As a credible club we are now a laughing stock....and all signs must be demolished before attempting to reconstruct.

The present regime has failed the City and it''s supporters. The quality of football today is as bad as I''ve ever seen and many fans sadly out of touch with reality. Only by being truly "local" and living in the County can you fully understand that. Being resident outside of Norfolk and thus distant from the real feeling on the ground...perhaps you will feel the betrayal less.... For me NCFC is a vital part of my heritage and when it''s hurt....so is the City itself. The two go very much hand in hand as far as I''m concerned.

Sorry to the youngsters on here....but you really don''t know what NCFC is all about if you accept this current fiasco as the "norm". We can be MUCH better than this.....but only if we want to be....and that''s the bit that really bothers me right now............

Two Tails · January 31, 2007

Yes I will renew my season ticket, football aside it gives me a bit of peace and quiet away from the other half.

Reggie Strayshun · January 31, 2007

What you say makes sense,Cluck,but it is unfair to say that the only ones who are upset by the current farce are those who reside in Norwich/Norfolk.I spend a great deal of time and money getting to games, and it''s money that ,like others,I feel is wasted at present..Whilst I cannot claim to keep up to date with all the gossip in the pubs and clubs,I''ve been keeping a close eye on the media/websites,plus updates from friends and family on games I miss.

Even I from nearly 1000 m away could tell that Grant''s appointment was a mistake,that the DS regime had run its course,and things were on course for disaster.We all know that City will never be in the same league as the Prem "big boys",but the current fiasco means that for the forseeable future we are thge poor relations of WBA,Wolves,Derby,Preston,and (whsper it quietly) Ipswich.

Carlos Valderrama · January 31, 2007

I like to get away from my other half and kids too, that is why I am going to play golf instead. But with regards to football at roughly £20.00 a game, I am afraid it is far too expensive and just not entertaining enough. I would probaby get just as much enjoyment watching Fakenham or Wroxham!!!!!!

Don''t agree with the other post though. Delia has done nothing wrong for this club and I reckon Peter Grant will do well eventually. Sometimes things have to get worse before they can get better. I just can''t be bothered to sit through the worse in order to wait for the better.....

blahblahblah · January 31, 2007

[quote]

Trying

to rebuild this club with Grant and DS in charge would be like laying

foundations on shifting sands. DS and her cronies must go, taking Grant

with them.[/quote]As a businessman, have you tried to "cost" your suggestions Cluck ?Grants'' contract - 800k ? And this a matter of months after Worthington received 600k ? Why bother to buy players if we can just spend all the money on managers ?To remove the board, you''d have to launch a takeover. A takeover would only occur if those coming in could offer more than those currently in charge. 20-25 million to buy the club is my guess, and another 10 million for players ? Do you happen to know anyone with that kind of money ?

BBFF · January 31, 2007

To rebuild a FOOTBALL club FOOTBALL must come first off & on the pitch, the decision makers at our club have forgoten they are in charge of a FOOTBALL club........yes I have said FOOTBALL four times now, I bet the word FOOTBALL (5) is hardly ever used at a NCPLC board meeting?

blahblahblah · January 31, 2007

For a football club to exist in the modern economy, you either need a sugar-daddy, large amounts of cash from TV, or other revenue.Without it''s other sources of income, Norwich City would be a money pit.

Cluck · January 31, 2007

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote] Trying to rebuild this club with Grant and DS in charge would be like laying foundations on shifting sands. DS and her cronies must go, taking Grant with them.[/quote]

As a businessman, have you tried to "cost" your suggestions Cluck ?

Grants'' contract - 800k ? And this a matter of months after Worthington received 600k ? Why bother to buy players if we can just spend all the money on managers ?

To remove the board, you''d have to launch a takeover. A takeover would only occur if those coming in could offer more than those currently in charge. 20-25 million to buy the club is my guess, and another 10 million for players ?

Do you happen to know anyone with that kind of money ?

[/quote]

Here we go again...the mention of the Board departing involves either the Russian mafia or the need to reveal the exact identity of a big money buyer.

I''m not saying that I can individually do such a thing...or provide personal savings...but the fact remains that there can be no new start involving any of the current ingredients. That''s like me saying we should pull our troops out of Iraq and asking me to drive the bus home! The present regime is an abject failure....and any effort to retain one part of it in a rebuild will send the rest rotten.

Just because there are major obstacles...it doesn''t mean it''s impossible....and if Delia wants to hang about here for the best price while becoming a "hate" figure....that''s her choice to do so. As the club slides down....so does her financial return. Rather like shares on the stock market....when a company is in trouble, you can sell early at a small loss or wait for them to crash. I can''t think that she is daft enough not to see the writing on the wall....can you?

None of us so called "negatives" have all of the answers...but asking reasonable questions is better than taking a beating in silence. This, I feel is what too many supporters are currently doing.

Cluck · January 31, 2007

[quote user="canari francais"]

What you say makes sense,Cluck,but it is unfair to say that the only ones who are upset by the current farce are those who reside in Norwich/Norfolk.I spend a great deal of time and money getting to games, and it''s money that ,like others,I feel is wasted at present..Whilst I cannot claim to keep up to date with all the gossip in the pubs and clubs,I''ve been keeping a close eye on the media/websites,plus updates from friends and family on games I miss.

Even I from nearly 1000 m away could tell that Grant''s appointment was a mistake,that the DS regime had run its course,and things were on course for disaster.We all know that City will never be in the same league as the Prem "big boys",but the current fiasco means that for the forseeable future we are thge poor relations of WBA,Wolves,Derby,Preston,and (whsper it quietly) Ipswich.

[/quote]

I''m sorry if it came across like that canari....and in no way did I mean to devalue any "long distance supporters''" status. We are all equal in terms of support...but being local to Norwich itself.... it has to become a much more personal issue. For me Norwich City stands alongside the Cathedral....Gentleman''s Walk...the Castle Museum....the market...... Elm Hill etc etc. It is part of my childhood and part of my being. With all due respect....can anyone from outside of this experience the same depth of feeling?

NCFC is just a part of what it''s like to be from Norwich itself....When the club is down....so is the City itself. Going back to the heady days before DS rode into town....the place was a buzz. The old First Division was where we usually played our football....and the team was littered with quality. We got to cup finals and semis....and into Europe following our 3rd place in the Premiership. Now we are just the butt of most of the jokes....and Delia Smith has totally stolen the show.

As a Norwich boy born and bred....I don''t like what has happened to NCFC... To me it''s much more than just a football club I''m afraid....it''s part of the city and County itself....and it has badly lost it''s way. Am I meant to just ignore that fact for the sake of peace and quiet?

Does that make sense?...........[:)]

Rudolph Hucker · January 31, 2007

Delia Smith has kept a low profile for a long time now so why are you still clucking on about her overwhelming persona? Do you have an anal obsession with culinary knowledge? Were you overfed as a baby with a large wooden stirring spoon? Was your nappy rash removed with a cheesegrater? Does Ainsley Harriot cause you strange sensations?

Go get some therapy!

chicken · January 31, 2007

[quote user="-.-. .-.. ..- -.-. -.-"][quote user="canari francais"]

What you say makes sense,Cluck,but it is unfair to say that the only ones who are upset by the current farce are those who reside in Norwich/Norfolk.I spend a great deal of time and money getting to games, and it''s money that ,like others,I feel is wasted at present..Whilst I cannot claim to keep up to date with all the gossip in the pubs and clubs,I''ve been keeping a close eye on the media/websites,plus updates from friends and family on games I miss.

Even I from nearly 1000 m away could tell that Grant''s appointment was a mistake,that the DS regime had run its course,and things were on course for disaster.We all know that City will never be in the same league as the Prem "big boys",but the current fiasco means that for the forseeable future we are thge poor relations of WBA,Wolves,Derby,Preston,and (whsper it quietly) Ipswich.

[/quote]

I''m sorry if it came across like that canari....and in no way did I mean to devalue any "long distance supporters''" status. We are all equal in terms of support...but being local to Norwich itself.... it has to become a much more personal issue. For me Norwich City stands alongside the Cathedral....Gentleman''s Walk...the Castle Museum....the market...... Elm Hill etc etc. It is part of my childhood and part of my being. With all due respect....can anyone from outside of this experience the same depth of feeling?

NCFC is just a part of what it''s like to be from Norwich itself....When the club is down....so is the City itself. Going back to the heady days before DS rode into town....the place was a buzz. The old First Division was where we usually played our football....and the team was littered with quality. We got to cup finals and semis....and into Europe following our 3rd place in the Premiership. Now we are just the butt of most of the jokes....and Delia Smith has totally stolen the show.

As a Norwich boy born and bred....I don''t like what has happened to NCFC... To me it''s much more than just a football club I''m afraid....it''s part of the city and County itself....and it has badly lost it''s way. Am I meant to just ignore that fact for the sake of peace and quiet?

Does that make sense?...........[:)]

[/quote]

Going back to the 1980''s then? Like you have mentioned before Cluck, Delia didn''t ride into town untill some years after relegation from the premiership with the same "wonderful" people at the helm as in those "buzzing" days. By that I mean the board.

Not only that but people will keep bringing up issue with that because it was the worse possible time to get relegated - when football was back on the climb and more and more money was being pumped into the sport through TV etc. Sutton was the first £5million player.

Part of the problem with this club is that our past is not exactly steeped with days of football domination or huge amounts of silverware. Whether you like it or not there are more clubs in this league that have more successful histories than ours and yet it gives none of them anymore right to be any higher up that table now.

There is no point banging on about "before Delia" referring to Munich or the Milk Cup because those days of football are gone, the days where you could assemble a squad of players on next to nothing and rely totaly on team spirit to carry you to the top of leagues and finals of cups. I would agree that this is a shame because there is nothing like a pure un-tainted sport but today its just not like that.

And whilst you are right that Norwich City FC is part and parcel of Norwich and Norfolk life these days you do have to recognise that it is that mentality that gets it the label of a smaller club or a "little club" as some people have been known to label it. Having lived for a few years outside of Norwich and Norfolk many people think of Norwich (the place) as being small and that the club is small. Things like League of Gentlemen has not helped with the whole play on rural "local".

I am afraid that there are a lot of things in this county to be proud of including this club but as with all things Norfolk, the club is only as big as its fans want it to be and at the moment I think we are going through a bit of a period of denial.

chicken · January 31, 2007

[quote user="-.-. .-.. ..- -.-. -.-"]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote] Trying to rebuild this club with Grant and DS in charge would be like laying foundations on shifting sands. DS and her cronies must go, taking Grant with them.[/quote]

As a businessman, have you tried to "cost" your suggestions Cluck ?

Grants'' contract - 800k ? And this a matter of months after Worthington received 600k ? Why bother to buy players if we can just spend all the money on managers ?

To remove the board, you''d have to launch a takeover. A takeover would only occur if those coming in could offer more than those currently in charge. 20-25 million to buy the club is my guess, and another 10 million for players ?

Do you happen to know anyone with that kind of money ?

[/quote]

Here we go again...the mention of the Board departing involves either the Russian mafia or the need to reveal the exact identity of a big money buyer.

I''m not saying that I can individually do such a thing...or provide personal savings...but the fact remains that there can be no new start involving any of the current ingredients. That''s like me saying we should pull our troops out of Iraq and asking me to drive the bus home! The present regime is an abject failure....and any effort to retain one part of it in a rebuild will send the rest rotten.

Just because there are major obstacles...it doesn''t mean it''s impossible....and if Delia wants to hang about here for the best price while becoming a "hate" figure....that''s her choice to do so. As the club slides down....so does her financial return. Rather like shares on the stock market....when a company is in trouble, you can sell early at a small loss or wait for them to crash. I can''t think that she is daft enough not to see the writing on the wall....can you?

None of us so called "negatives" have all of the answers...but asking reasonable questions is better than taking a beating in silence. This, I feel is what too many supporters are currently doing.

[/quote]

"The present regime is an abject failure...."

Its stuff like this that makes your opinions heavily flawed. In another post you say the club is part of the city and the county yet you seem to forget the packed streets after the play-off final or the title winning season. There was one hell of a buzz then with even the financial part of the city coming out to shout about what success would be brought to the city as a whole. The truth of the matter is that only recently has the club started to "fail" if you mean to slip the standards that they had themselves built.

I think that some got a bit carried away with it all and fogot that football is not as straighforward as that.

Some people think that there is only one place that Norwich bellongs but then question its ability of ever being able to be there. To me its a bit like saying you believe in God but your not sure if there is a convincing argument to believe that God exists.

No team has a right to be anywhere and you are mistaken to believe that the "buzz" is created by the club - its created by the fans and the fans are the only ones who can drive the club forwards and upwards and create that atmosphere. Obviously it is not the only factor involved in success but it is one that is lacking at this club. I don''t want to be seen as blaming the fans but when you suggest that the club lacks the "buzz" then you are talking about the fans and are opening up an entirely different question with entirely different answers.

And this is where the argument falls apart as to getting a new board. By board many people of this opinion mean Delia and Micheal. Which is an argument I will not side with at this point in time, but at least one I can respect to a certain extent when well thought out and argued.

But may I point out that a new manager was called for and gained, many people have complained on this board and elsewhere that he is not up to it and that we should have got someone better in. This is fine because to some extent the fans can influence who the club has in as a manager (at the time many were calling for a young, perhaps fresh manager).

But when it comes to investors the fans do not have the ability to influence. It is a far more difficult and complicated process than hiring and firing. Just look at the kind of bids flying around at the moment. The guy who wanted West Ham is supposedly going for Fulham now, he obviously wants a London club but does not really care about which one. Mandaric is in a similar boat - he obviously became bored of Pompey and wanted a new toy to play with and become a hero of.

Personaly I would prefer it if we managed to get someone that actually has a knowledge of UK football, who had not been palmed off by another club and who wasn''t just wanting to stamp their imaged and brand all over the club. Believe it or not our club has remained reletively untouched by the board. Chelsea for example had their badge altered along with several other emblems of the club to reflect Abramovic''s desires. If thats what a suger dady is then no thanks.

I would much prefer an Alan Sugar, Paphitis, Jordan etc than some of the other characters currently in ownership of clubs.

chicken · January 31, 2007

[quote user="jimmy500"]

I like to get away from my other half and kids too, that is why I am going to play golf instead. But with regards to football at roughly £20.00 a game, I am afraid it is far too expensive and just not entertaining enough. I would probaby get just as much enjoyment watching Fakenham or Wroxham!!!!!!

Don''t agree with the other post though. Delia has done nothing wrong for this club and I reckon Peter Grant will do well eventually. Sometimes things have to get worse before they can get better. I just can''t be bothered to sit through the worse in order to wait for the better.....

[/quote]

Some might say "fairwhether" here but I would agree with most of the rest of what you say on the lines of Grant and Delia.

Creative Midfielder · January 31, 2007

[quote]

Going back to the heady days before DS rode into town....the place was a buzz. The old First Division was where we usually played our football....and the team was littered with quality. We got to cup finals and semis....and into Europe following our 3rd place in the Premiership. Now we are just the butt of most of the jokes....and Delia Smith has totally stolen the show.

[/quote]

For a supposed long time ''supporter'', Cluck, you seem to have an extremely shaky grasp of the club''s history. I cant be bothered to work it out precisely but I reckon in our entire history we''ve probably only spent 10-15% at most of the time in the top division and we''ve spent a great many years below where we are now.

Disappointing as our current situation is its actually pretty typical of the club that I grew up supporting which was an extremely average second division club. Yes, there have been occassional, and relatively brief, high spots since. Those have also occurred under Delia but they havent been sustained just like this supposed ''golden age'' that you burble on about.

Of course no one who saw us beat Bayern Munich will ever forget it but a couple of years later we were still back in the second division.

So tell me, leaving aside your personnal dislike for Delia, what is actually so different this time around or did you bleat on endlessly then as well?

chicken · January 31, 2007

[quote user="-.-. .-.. ..- -.-. -.-"]

Trying to rebuild this club with Grant and DS in charge would be like laying foundations on shifting sands. DS and her cronies must go, taking Grant with them. We need to return to our grass roots and bring back the club''s sense of place... this being representative of the City of Norwich and County of Norfolk.....not Delia Smith''s celebrity tv persona. As a credible club we are now a laughing stock....and all signs must be demolished before attempting to reconstruct.

The present regime has failed the City and it''s supporters. The quality of football today is as bad as I''ve ever seen and many fans sadly out of touch with reality. Only by being truly "local" and living in the County can you fully understand that. Being resident outside of Norfolk and thus distant from the real feeling on the ground...perhaps you will feel the betrayal less.... For me NCFC is a vital part of my heritage and when it''s hurt....so is the City itself. The two go very much hand in hand as far as I''m concerned.

Sorry to the youngsters on here....but you really don''t know what NCFC is all about if you accept this current fiasco as the "norm". We can be MUCH better than this.....but only if we want to be....and that''s the bit that really bothers me right now............

[/quote]

I don''t think many people accept our current position as the norm and I think most people would prefer if we were not in our current position but then I think they are also more realistic in believing that no club has the god given right to be anywhere and that the club, players and fans are in a position for a reason.

I would probably be labelled by your tag as a "norm", but I am not happy with our current predicament but then I havent been happy with our predicament since promotion when people started to suggest that staying up should be a walk in the park, that it wasnt that difficult to beat mid table premiership teams or after relegation after loosing half our squad that we would bounce back up straight away because this league is a cake walk - or who then suggested that the simple answer is to sack the manager and get rid of the players he signed, and now those that suggest the current manager should go along with the entirety of the board.

It is however a "norm" in football and just as much as I would like to say that we should not be in this position I can''t help but feel that some sections of fans want this to happen.

Carlos Valderrama · February 1, 2007

Too harsh to call me fairweather, I have just had enough of mediocrity. I have done my stint as a committed fan, now I am going to vote with my feet and my wallet by doing something different.

blahblahblah · February 1, 2007

You claim to be a realist cluck, and fond of reasonable questions, so answer me this...

[quote user="dot dash dot"]Here we go again...the mention of the Board departing involves either the Russian mafia or the need to reveal the exact identity of a big money buyer.[/quote]

[quote user="dash dot dash"]and if Delia wants to hang about here for the best price while becoming a "hate" figure....that''s her choice to do so[/quote]

It''s July 2007. The club are in the worst case scenario, and have been relegated to League 1. 1500 angry fans stayed behind after the last home game to call for the board to be replaced.

In this situation, let''s assume that I have a lot of money, and wouldn''t miss 30 million spent on my favourite football club. I am a fairly anonymous rich person who just wants to help the club.

Would I want to "buy the club", replace the current board, and become the public face of the club, knowing that someone of the wholesome, friendly profile of Delia Smith had become a hate figure just by investing money in the club, and trying to create non-football related revenue for it ?

In the event of a disastrous season, protests against the board are in my opinion more likely to put new investors off, than to encourage them. Is that a fair statement old chap ?

I don''t believe that Delia could become a hate figure anywhere other than in the minds of a few on here, incidentally, but I''m happy to use your phrase for sake of example.

BBFF · February 1, 2007

[quote user="blahblahblah"]