A New League for the Rich Man's "Toy Clubs"?

[Saint Canary 0]

I am watching with interest to see whether the "take over" of West Ham will happen in the coming weeks.  If it does, coupled with Lerner''s take over of Villa it will no doubt make the title "race" in the Premiership a bit more interesting with possibly 5 or 6 teams able to compete.  However the more clubs that get bought by billionaires or massive corporate entities the more football will move away from the sport I grew up with.  It is going to be harder and harder for "smaller" clubs to get into the Eufa Cup etc via the top 6.  With money now talking more than ever it''s become inconceiveable that any club would ever be able to acheive the success seen by Brian Clough''s Derby and that''s a real shame.  The Premiership is clearly the place to be but I understand the veiws of some that Championship is a better league.  What happens at these clubs when their owners decide that they either don''t want to play with them anymore or they just are not as "viable" a business as they first thought?  What happens to English football?  What if the greatest clubs in our Country end up being stripped of assests and left penniless by people who really don''t care about the clubs let alone about football?  Tough really I suppose, with the Premiership being the richest prize in sport thanks to Sky, it''s ineviatable that people would try milk it for all it''s worth.

I can understand why some people feel the Championship is better league than the Premiership.  It''s just far more competitive, teams can go from to close to relegation to promotion in the space of just one season and vice versa, some times in the same season!  Which gets me to wondering would it best to go down the road of a European Super League and let the likes of Chelski, Man U and Aston Villa go off and play with all the other rich kids and leave the rest of the clubs to play in a real league for real clubs?  A league which means that the likes of Derby could be promoted and win the top league within 2 years.  A league system that means the likes of Wimbledon can come from the bottom of the pile to the top without having to be bankrolled by a rich businessman.

 

[Ramrod 258]

The people who suffer most from the Premier League are the supporters who go to the games (whenever they get played).

I have a mate who is a Chelsea fan, he goes home after seeing his side win 3-0 thoroughly dissatisfied not because they didn''t win 4-0 but because it is all so uninspiring.

The Premier League is doomed, it is only a matter of time, it cannot continue as it is.

If you like real football then look outside the Premier League (most supporters do).

[Northern Canary 0]

The way things are going, i think that would be a good idea.

[blahblahblah 2]

It is rather sad that the Premiership is becoming little more than a corporate bragging match, with billionaires comparing the size of their wallets against each other.  If you''re watching a Premiership match, and the score is 2-0 at half-time, you can be pretty sure that the team ahead will go on to win the game.  If you''re watching a Championship match, and the score is 2-0 at half-time, you still can''t be sure what the result will be.  And the Championship is the 4th best attended league in Europe, which says a lot about the capacity for English people to support their teams.  The teams that get promoted / win the title tend to be the best teams, not the most expensive collection of players.  I''d be happy to let the top teams form a european or even world league, but I''d guarantee that they''d want back in to their national leagues once the initial interest in the format wears off, and sposnorship dries up.

[Canary02 0]

I heartily agree. I''ve been a great believer that at the end of the day it''s eleven hairy arses against eleven and on their day any team should be able to beat any other team. The recent runs of Chelsea and Arsenal however, going whole seasons without being beaten and the like though, have proved how big the gap is. The difference is that the best players in the world are not being shared around fairly, and whereas fifteen years ago the top clubs would have the best English players and one or two good europeans, now they can completely pack their squad with the cream of the worlds talent. Chelsea could easily field three teams of world class players (most of whom for some reason seem happy to sit on the bench and pick up a paycheque for nothing). Arsenal can afford to pay £10m for Theo Walcott and then not play him. That could never have happened before, and highlights the crazy gap between the have''s tht run the game and the have-nots outside the top flight, that are given just enough to survive as convenient feeder clubs for the big teams, but not enough for them to be worthy opponents.

[Ramrod 258]

The only trouble with gaining promotion from the Championship is having to play in the Premier League.

I bet Birmingham supporters, for instance are re-kindling their love of football this season after hitting the glass ceiling that is the Prem.

You get to meet real fans in this league too and play some great clubs with higher attendences than many in the Prem, Clubs who we have plenty of history with (and that is important).

You get more games on more Saturdays with less interference for TV schedules and for a Club our size you have the expectation of competing and winning.

Just look at who we play: Palace, Brum, Wolves, Baggies, Saints, Leicester, Leeds, Coventry, Derby, QPR, Ipswich, Sunderland amongst others (that''s fifty percent of the total).

In the Prem you get some top Clubs but how inspired are you by Portsmouth, Bolton, Fulham, Wigan, Reading, Charlton, Watford and Blackburn (that 40 per cent of the total).

The above are just my own view of the respective Clubs but I think you get the picture.

I say scrap the transfer windows and pay promotion cash to promoted Clubs up front so they can get players in.

A matrix for re-distributing revenues HAS to be created which encourages competition and there should be restrictions on squad sizes.

Something has to be done, England cannot currently produce enough home grown top strikers, the Prem was intended to benefit the national side. It has done little in that respect.

[YankeeCanary 0]

Some good thoughts on your part Saint and it is true that the Championship is, and always has been, a much more openly competitive division. Without drawing any conclusions to the question that you pose, however, allow me to add another perspective.

I know it''s all so easy to gravitate to money as the driver of what will allow a "big" club to win the Premiership in our current era, and there is no doubt that the level of spend by the big clubs appears to be astronomical. However, I believe in order to maintain perspective, I think it''s unwise to be overly influenced by a relatively short period of time. We all can see what squad strength Chelsea has but, to date, despite the massive spend, they have only won two titles in this current cycle. They have yet to prove they can dominate for a decade or so like Manchester United or Liverpool has done in past decades. My added point is this. Over the past 40 seasons the Championship has been won by teams from Lancashire 26 times. I think that''s a phenomenal record for one part of the country to have achieved. Fan passion and tradition has to play a significant role in allowing one region to have that much dominance. Of course, some will say it''s a ridiculous example, but imagine if Norfolk had that record instead of Lancashire.

Without getting hung up on where it comes from, money and investment has the potential to flow into all areas and has done over the longer term. This has never been enough to allow the London clubs, for example, to have the success enjoyed in that relatively small area in the northwest of England. I believe there is an underlying ( even subconscious ) factor at work within the fans in that part of the country to participate in and beat their competitors in the rest of the country. If one were to look at it through their eyes I''m not sure they are prepared to allow that oneupmanship to be shipped off to European hibernation.

[DONT REMEMBER YOUR TENURE AS ENGLAND MANAGER 0]

[quote user="Ramrod"]The only trouble with gaining promotion from the Championship is having to play in the Premier League. I bet Birmingham supporters, for instance are re-kindling their love of football this season after hitting the glass ceiling that is the Prem. You get to meet real fans in this league too and play some great clubs with higher attendences than many in the Prem, Clubs who we have plenty of history with (and that is important). You get more games on more Saturdays with less interference for TV schedules and for a Club our size you have the expectation of competing and winning. Just look at who we play: Palace, Brum, Wolves, Baggies, Saints, Leicester, Leeds, Coventry, Derby, QPR, Ipswich, Sunderland amongst others (that''s fifty percent of the total). In the Prem you get some top Clubs but how inspired are you by Portsmouth, Bolton, Fulham, Wigan, Reading, Charlton, Watford and Blackburn (that 40 per cent of the total). The above are just my own view of the respective Clubs but I think you get the picture. I say scrap the transfer windows and pay promotion cash to promoted Clubs up front so they can get players in. A matrix for re-distributing revenues HAS to be created which encourages competition and there should be restrictions on squad sizes. Something has to be done, England cannot currently produce enough home grown top strikers, the Prem was intended to benefit the national side. It has done little in that respect.[/quote]

 

Great post, thought provoking stuff. Read your stuff on some of the other posts. Very impressed.

[chicken 0]

[quote user="Ramrod"]The people who suffer most from the Premier League are the supporters who go to the games (whenever they get played).

I have a mate who is a Chelsea fan, he goes home after seeing his side win 3-0 thoroughly dissatisfied not because they didn''t win 4-0 but because it is all so uninspiring.

The Premier League is doomed, it is only a matter of time, it cannot continue as it is.

If you like real football then look outside the Premier League (most supporters do).[/quote]I have been to chelsea a couple of times in the last few years. I went in Ranieris last season vs Wolves and its fair to say even then Chelsea were not the most raucus of crowds. Again against West Brom two seasons ago and the only time the away fans were drowned out was when chelsea scored.I think that that is why the fail in champions league matches and why last season Arsenal did well. The fans made the difference. You look at the other big clubs and see that they are big in noise as well as funds. Real Madrid are like what Chelsea could turn into.I also think most stadiums are becoming characterless. I hope Fulham stay at the cottage because it is one of the few stadiums to keep its real character. All of the others are pretty much much of a muchness with different coloured seating and badge outside.

[Ramrod 258]

If you go to Ashburton Grove, Chicken, there are a lot more signs telling you it is ''The Emirates Stadium'' than there are telling you it is the home of Arsenal.

Thanks for your kind comments too Dizzy.

[Syteanric 1]

a Fantastic thread and excellent posts by all concerned!

 I still feel that we could learn so much more from the way the USA runs its sport, Particularly the NFL.

 for a start the finances, their are no Transfer fees, no transfer window (there is a cut off point for players but not a window as  suchh). What happens is that players swap between teams.

 Imagine say Manchester City unearthing 2 hot young talents, 17 year olds who are taking the world by storm and are on their way to both becoming the next Wayne Rooney, Chelsea come along and say "we want those 2 youngsters" to whcih manchester reply "you can have them both in a swap for Frank Lampard".... maybe its a laughable example but im sure you get the drift and what i am trying to explain.

 Then theres the Salary cap and contract situation again. Lets use Norwich as an example this time. Supposing our wage budget is 1 million a year (as it would be for the entire championshyip under the NFL''s Cap rules). and we are at £999,999, now if say Darren Hucckerby wanted a 2 year deal for £2 more a year than he was on now this would push us over the cap. so to keep him it would either mean lowering wages accross the board, getting him to take lesser money, trading him with another team, or releasing a player deemed surplus to requirements.

 The advantage of this is that it forces mercenarys and money grabbers out of the game. it also means EVERY team has a star player. If a team can pay that little bit more because they are under their cap then they can sign that player (back to the Lampard/Man City scenario). the days of £125,000 a week wages are long gone, C;lubs finances become streamlined and everyone competes on a fairer keel.

 Then theres the Shared Revenue. There are 32 teams in the NFL and every year the team who finishes last gets more money than the team who wins the superbowl.. Cock-eyed system? not so, the team who wins the Superbowl will get a huge payout in prize money anyway.. plus the extra sponsorship, TV rights etc that come with being a winner in any spor t means that over the course of a year they will get more money than anyone else anyway. in order to keep the league more competitve the team who finishes bottom of the pack gets more money to hire better coaches, better Traning facilities, recruit better players etc. what happens is that the team who finished 32''d one year finishes 1st the next. This guarentees a season that wont eve get boring.. as with 1 or 2 exceptions (see the fall of the San Francisco 49ers n the last 10 years to see how it can go horribly wrong) anyones team can win the superbowl the next year, It ensures that attendences stay at 100% and that no one drifts away from games.

 ticket prices? the Average ticket to an NFL game is £12. compare that to a "basic" ticket at Chelski?

 Football HAS to look further a field if it is to compete. there are other things the NFL does that i think would benefit football.. EG more divisions with 4 or 5 teams in each, but i have a baby to feed so i cant talk about them all now.

just a few thoughts though

jas :)