Daily Mail slates Delia and Michael

[littleyellowbirdie 2,600]

2 hours ago, lake district canary said:

It's Farke's first season - and the clear vision given was that this was to be a consolidating/building season. There was a lot of cr*p surrounding at Leeds, bad attitudes, etc.

As for me damaging the club, that's a laugh. I've always said things how I see them - and for me - and a lot of others seem to agree with me (for once!) - we could see Smith was taking us nowhere, whether he was following Farke or anyone else.

He's an experienced Championship manager with a superior squad to anything we've ever had. They got relegated with 31 points, 50% more points than Farke got his complete Premier League season points last season and kept most of the squad together. In spite of that, they're in the playoffs rather than walking the league.

If you say that bad attitudes at Leeds are hurting Farke then that goes for what happened to Smith with us  And you, along with others, had a bad attitude to him. To be honest, I'd always admired you for looking for positives and not making it about personality, which is why I found your precious idolatry of Farke and grudging attitude to Smith for being the guy who happened to replace him especially disappointing.

Farke was taking us nowhere.

Edited January 29 by littleyellowbirdie

[Sufyellow 223]

5 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

You raised the subject of Dean Smith here and I'm not going to be drawn on it; don't whine about the subject coming up if you raise it. In contrast, people whine about the sacking of Farke regularly on here and it is an utter joke.

Nothing can deflect from the fact that Farke had had 4 and a quarter seasons with us and was doing no better on his second attempt at the Premier League than the first, underlining that he'd clearly reached his limit with us. The fact he happened to get a win on his very last game after the decision had been made to get rid of him is just one of those freak things.

 

They did keep selling the best players every season he was here, so not sure why you bring up he was with us four and a half seasons? It wasn't as though he could build a great team. That was the problem with the clubs plan, farke got a championship club to the Premiership. They even backed smith with another 10 million of players after relegation to try and save face. Both times farke won it he had a minus 20 million spend. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,600]

2 minutes ago, Sufyellow said:

They did keep selling the best players every season he was here, so not sure why you bring up he was with us four and a half seasons? It wasn't as though he could build a great team. That was the problem with the clubs plan, farke got a championship club to the Premiership. They even backed smith with another 10 million of players after relegation to try and save face. Both times farke won it he had a minus 20 million spend. 

One way or the other Farke was involved in the recruitment process both sales and recruitment. If mistakes were happening because things were happening that weren't to his liking then arguably that was also his failure for not being assertive enough about what he wanted to get the job done on the pitch.

Edited January 29 by littleyellowbirdie

[Sufyellow 223]

10 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

He's an experienced Championship manager with a superior squad to anything we've ever had. They got relegated with 31 points, 50% more points than Farke got his complete Premier League season points last season and kept most of the squad together. In spite of that, they're in the playoffs rather than walking the league.

If you say that bad attitudes at Leeds are hurting Farke then that goes for what happened to Smith with us  And you, along with others, had a bad attitude to him. To be honest, I'd always admired you for looking for positives and not making it about personality, which is why I found your precious idolatry of Farke and grudging attitude to Smith for being the guy who happened to replace him especially disappointing.

Farke was taking us nowhere.

Farke had took us as high as any mid championship run club had the right to go. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,600]

3 minutes ago, Sufyellow said:

Farke had took us as high as any mid championship run club had the right to go. 

A perfectly reasonable attitude if you're happy with being a yoyo club. I'm perfectly okay with that view and that's why I'd have been happy to have seen him stay at the time, but ultimately those who believe we should be a Premier League club won the day, and on that metric he wasn't good enough to get the job done.

Edited January 29 by littleyellowbirdie

[canarydan23 4,060]

19 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Farke was taking us nowhere.

You think Farke was taking us nowhere.

We know Smith took us to the Championship with little prospect of an EPL return.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,600]

8 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

You think Farke was taking us nowhere.

We know Smith took us to the Championship with little prospect of an EPL return.

Well, the likes of yourself insisted at the time anybody could do better than Smith, but here we are.

Also, Smith didn't take us to the Championship; he failed to stop an almost inevitable descent, and did do a little better than Farke overall at Premier League level.

Anyway, here's to sticking with Wagner and giving him unconditional support indefinitely until we happen to have a run of 2 points out of a possible 33.

Edited January 29 by littleyellowbirdie

[Sufyellow 223]

2 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Farke was an absolute miracle worker in the championship for us that is true. There was no way that rag tag team of youth players, free agents and misfits he put together in his first/second season with us should have been anywhere near promotion yet he did it.

But also failed to keep us up twice. Was he fully supported? Probably not, no. But we could not afford to spend big at the time anyway and most of the players he seemed to have a hand in getting in for our Prem seasons were flops. 

So yes, I would agree that while in the Championship Farke was a true miracle in the top flight he was a dud.

You just contradicted yourself,  he was a miracle worker to get us to the prem,  but with a 4 million team investment and covid you think he should of kept us there. He also got us one game from Wembley in any other season.  

[littleyellowbirdie 2,600]

3 minutes ago, Sufyellow said:

You just contradicted yourself,  he was a miracle worker to get us to the prem,  but with a 4 million team investment and covid you think he should of kept us there. He also got us one game from Wembley in any other season.  

I think that's overstating it. He needed a whole season to lay foundations and was lucky to have a couple of really inspirational players at his disposal in Buendia and Pukki at championship level.

Edited January 29 by littleyellowbirdie

[canarydan23 4,060]

5 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Well, the likes of yourself insisted at the time anybody could do better than Smith, but here we are.

Also, Smith didn't take us to the Championship; he failed to stop an almost inevitable descent, and did do a little better than Farke overall.

Lol, 27 games left in the season, level on points with Newcastle, 5 points away from safety. 

Yes, Dean Smith did take us to the Championship, any argument to the contrary is fueled by either cognitive dissonance, a pathological inability to admit you were wrong or rank stupidity. He said himself the aim was to survive; he was a catastrophic failure.

He had the opportunity to match Farke by bouncing straight back; he was a catastrophic failure.

And actually, my words at the time we appointed Smith were something like, "the only good thing about Dean Smith is he's not Frank Lampard". Pretty on the money there too. You'll start listening to me one day.

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,600]

4 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Lol, 27 games left in the season, level on points with Newcastle, 5 points away from safety. 

Yes, Dean Smith did take us to the Championship, any argument to the contrary is fueled by either cognitive dissonance, a pathological inability to admit you were wrong or rank stupidity. He said himself the aim was to survive; he was a catastrophic failure.

He had the opportunity to match Farke by bouncing straight back; he was a catastrophic failure.

And actually, my words at the time we appointed Smith were something like, "the only good thing about Dean Smith is he's not Frank Lampard". Pretty on the money there too. You'll start listening to me one day.

 

You're contradicting yourself. If our failure in the Premier League wasn't Farke's fault, then it wasn't Smith's either. Make up your mind.

Smith didn't fail to bounce back on the first time of asking, because he was dismissed half way through the season. We did see ourselves in the auto slots part way through the season before injury complications, so you can't rule out the possibility that we might have recovered.

We do however, know that we didn't bounce straight back after he was replaced.

Edited January 29 by littleyellowbirdie

[Sufyellow 223]

19 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

One way or the other Farke was involved in the recruitment process both sales and recruitment. If mistakes were happening because things were happening that weren't to his liking then arguably that was also his failure for not being assertive enough about what he wanted to get the job done on the pitch.

Farke had to raise 20 million in player sales before both championship winning seasons. That's do to running the club not the manager. Wagner had to do it this season and the same will happen this summer, probably means Sara and Rowe to leave.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,600]

2 minutes ago, Sufyellow said:

Farke had to raise 20 million in player sales before both championship winning seasons. That's do to running the club not the manager. Wagner had to do it this season and the same will happen this summer, probably means Sara and Rowe to leave.

And why do you think the financial challenges of the club should apply regarding mitigating for Farke and Wagner, but  shouldn't apply regarding Smith?

Edited January 29 by littleyellowbirdie

[canarydan23 4,060]

3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

You're contradicting yourself. If our failure in the Premier League wasn't Farke's fault, then it wasn't Smith's either. Make up your mind.

I'm really not, it's quite a simple premise I'm positing here, it's a worry you can't grasp it.

I'll try my best to dumb it down as much as possible; at the point Dean Smith came in, relegation was not inevitable (source, Dean Smith himself). We got relegated. Therefore it was Dean Smith's fault we got relegated.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,600]

4 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I'm really not, it's quite a simple premise I'm positing here, it's a worry you can't grasp it.

I'll try my best to dumb it down as much as possible; at the point Dean Smith came in, relegation was not inevitable (source, Dean Smith himself). We got relegated. Therefore it was Dean Smith's fault we got relegated.

Don't start patronising, you little sh1t. You're applying one rule for one and a different rule for  the other. If relegation was inevitable, in your view, under Farke because it was all about the players, then it was equally true for Smith.

 

Edited January 29 by littleyellowbirdie

[Sufyellow 223]

36 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

A perfectly reasonable attitude if you're happy with being a yoyo club. I'm perfectly okay with that view and that's why I'd have been happy to have seen him stay at the time, but ultimately those who believe we should be a Premier League club won the day, and on that metric he wasn't good enough to get the job done.

I was quite happy to be a yo yo club , because as I said we are a mid championship financially run club. I get fans who get excited,  but I don't understand why the club didn't tell them that is the best we can do with our finances.

 

20 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I think that's overstating it. He needed a whole season to lay foundations and was lucky to have a couple of really inspirational players at his disposal in Buendia and Pukki at championship level.

It really isn't is it , was Emi and pukki top quality prem players the first time we went up? He did brilliant to get us up. We then put all the money into longer contracts for our youth, we were always coming back down the first time. 

Edited January 29 by Sufyellow

[Sufyellow 223]

10 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

And why do you think the financial challenges of the club should apply regarding mitigating for Farke and Wagner, but  shouldn't apply regarding Smith?

I have already stated Smith got backed with 10 million more , he didn't have to sell anyone. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,600]

3 minutes ago, Sufyellow said:

I was quite happy to be a yo yo club , because as I said we are a mid championship financially run club. I get fans who get excited,  but I don't understand why the club didn't tell 

 

It really isn't is it , was Emi and pukki top quality prem players the first time we went up? He did brilliant to get us up. We then put all the money into longer contracts for our youth, we were always coming back down the first time. 

He did well to get us up, but I don't think it was a miracle. It's a weird contradiction about the judgements of Farke that all of the successes under him were all because of him, but all of the failures under him were because of something else. I know he was good at clapping the fans, but it's all a bit OTT. There's no doubt at all in my mind that we'd have been relegated if Farke had stayed on, and an immediate promotion on relegation isn't guaranteed under anyone.

Edited January 29 by littleyellowbirdie

[littleyellowbirdie 2,600]

4 minutes ago, Sufyellow said:

I have already stated Smith got backed with 10 million more , he didn't have to sell anyone. 

Sorry, when are you talking about? In the Premier League or for the following Championship season?

[Sufyellow 223]

19 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

You're contradicting yourself. If our failure in the Premier League wasn't Farke's fault, then it wasn't Smith's either. Make up your mind.

Smith didn't fail to bounce back on the first time of asking, because he was dismissed half way through the season. We do however, know that we didn't bounce straight back after he was replaced.

I have never said it was smiths fault,  we were never staying up with that squad, he lost my support when we played Southampton away. It was humiliation and he did nothing in the game to even try and change it. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,600]

2 minutes ago, Sufyellow said:

I have never said it was smiths fault,  we were never staying up with that squad, he lost my support when we played Southampton away. It was humiliation and he did nothing in the game to even try and change it. 

Personally, I'm struggling to think of a manager in the last decade or so where we haven't had some humiliations, including Farke.

Edited January 29 by littleyellowbirdie

[canarydan23 4,060]

22 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Don't start patronising, you little sh1t. You're applying one rule for one and a different rule for  the other. If relegation was inevitable, in your view, under Farke because it was all about the players, then it was equally true for Smith.

 

Jesus. Just read this thread, you're tying yourself in knots and saying that I'm being contradictory? Really?

One minute you're saying Farke was "lucky" to have Pukki and Buendia. Then you're saying he was involved in the disastrous recruitment in the second EPL campaign. So he's lucky when good players are signed under his tenure but to blame when **** players are signed?!

Two points out of thirty is atrocious for one manager, but for another it was the mean fan's fault.

Then, inexplicably, you're telling us that the second EPL relegation was Farke's fault before coming out with this; "Smith didn't fail to bounce back on the first time of asking, because he was dismissed half way through the season."

It's actually f*cking hilarious!

[TheBaldOne66 700]

7 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Depends on the circumstances. If the person above you insists you have to play 433, rather than the successful 4231, if the person above you gets in players who are not ready to play PL football, if the person above you loans in players who are not good enough - then that suggests the manager is not the one to blame.

It’s down to the coach to decide who plays and what formation not the SD

[littleyellowbirdie 2,600]

31 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Jesus. Just read this thread, you're tying yourself in knots and saying that I'm being contradictory? Really?

One minute you're saying Farke was "lucky" to have Pukki and Buendia. Then you're saying he was involved in the disastrous recruitment in the second EPL campaign. So he's lucky when good players are signed under his tenure but to blame when **** players are signed?!

Two points out of thirty is atrocious for one manager, but for another it was the mean fan's fault.

Then, inexplicably, you're telling us that the second EPL relegation was Farke's fault before coming out with this; "Smith didn't fail to bounce back on the first time of asking, because he was dismissed half way through the season."

It's actually f*cking hilarious!

I haven't said that at all. Others have suggested he was complete bystander in the recruitment process and all of the bad decisions were all the fault of others, while all the good stuff can be laid entierly at Farke's door. It's nonsense.

I had no problem with Farke. I enjoyed his time with us. I was still supporting him at the time he was sacked because I'm a realist. But f*king miracle worker incapable of making a mistake and simply a victim of circumstances in terms of his disastrous record at PL level? If you're going to give him that much of a break and allow whole seasons to get his feet under the table then there's no reason not to have given Smith more of a break instead of throwing toys out of the pram because he was the replacment for bloody golden balls Farke.

And nobody's going to tell me that the sullen anti-Smith toxicity that was there right at the start of last season and persisted even while we climbed to the auto slots didn't harm the squad's morale.

What baffles me even more is how Wagner has had a relatively easy ride compared to Smith. He has even had fans making excuses for him and laying stuff on the board like that Bridget on Canary Call feeling sorry for him, in spite of not having done anything that impressive other than a couple of stonking wins immediately upon his arrival. We finished last season miles away from the playoffs.  There's no rhyme or reason to any of it.

Edited January 29 by littleyellowbirdie

[lake district canary 4,549]

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

To be honest, I'd always admired you for looking for positives and not making it about personality, which is why I found your precious idolatry of Farke and grudging attitude to Smith for being the guy who happened to replace him especially disappointing.

I've never been purely about positivity. I will face down negativity wherever I see it, but I admit to being negative myself sometimes too, but not about everything (like some people who are negative all the time).

I was always looking for positive signs that Farke was getting something going in the PL - and he was given an atrocious deck of cards to deal with at the beginning of that second season - so the 0-0 draws were a sign to me that he was getting to grips with the situation. Yes the Chelsea match was awful - but they were a powerful force that season - and yes the Leeds match was disappointing, but for me the first win was always going to be the biggest psychological hurdle - and once we got a win, we might take that as a turning point.

So when we got that first win, I was literally jumping and shouting at the result - a huge hurdle overcome. I don't think I've ever been so pleased about a PL league win, apart from maybe against Man City. That sacking an hour later was just about as big a jump of emotions in football as I have ever had - and I was furious - and that negativity stayed with me and yes, it affected my view of Smith.

But Smith looked jaded, never really looked up to the challenge and we looked all at sea with him in charge, so if there was any negativity, it was maybe justified.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,600]

13 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I've never been purely about positivity. I will face down negativity wherever I see it, but I admit to being negative myself sometimes too, but not about everything (like some people who are negative all the time).

I was always looking for positive signs that Farke was getting something going in the PL - and he was given an atrocious deck of cards to deal with at the beginning of that second season - so the 0-0 draws were a sign to me that he was getting to grips with the situation. Yes the Chelsea match was awful - but they were a powerful force that season - and yes the Leeds match was disappointing, but for me the first win was always going to be the biggest psychological hurdle - and once we got a win, we might take that as a turning point.

So when we got that first win, I was literally jumping and shouting at the result - a huge hurdle overcome. I don't think I've ever been so pleased about a PL league win, apart from maybe against Man City. That sacking an hour later was just about as big a jump of emotions in football as I have ever had - and I was furious - and that negativity stayed with me and yes, it affected my view of Smith.

But Smith looked jaded, never really looked up to the challenge and we looked all at sea with him in charge, so if there was any negativity, it was maybe justified.

Sorry, but for all the negativity, we had a good run that got us into the auto promotion slots, but there wasn't an ounce of positivity on here. Just whining demoralising b*llocks about 'eye tests' and 'false positions'. We have yet to have had a positive run half as good as that since his replacement, but so many people insisted 'anybody could do better'. And time was called barely half a season in because fans had made things too toxic to continue; no other reason.

Edited January 29 by littleyellowbirdie

[Mello Yello 2,303]

5 hours ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

Even Genghis Khan would’ve found the Mail a little extreme

Isn't he Mayor of London?....

[Sufyellow 223]

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Sorry, when are you talking about? In the Premier League or for the following Championship season?

The following championship season,  instead of making the manager sell his best assets,  they gambled and spent more. I am sure you know what I meant though. 

[Sufyellow 223]

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Personally, I'm struggling to think of a manager in the last decade or so where we haven't had some humiliations, including Farke.

Totally agree, but to go to Southampton where it should of been 7 or 8 , and the manager didn't try to change anything wasn't good.  Obviously after that we lost 3,0 home to Newcastle,  4,0 to West ham and 5,0 to spurs. I think maybe the team should of gelled by then and he should of found his best 11. 

[lake district canary 4,549]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Sorry, but for all the negativity, we had a good run that got us into the auto promotion slots, but there wasn't an ounce of positivity on here. Just whining demoralising b*llocks about 'eye tests' and 'false positions'. We have yet to have had a positive run half as good as that since his replacement, but so many people insisted 'anybody could do better'. And time was called barely half a season in because fans had made things too toxic to continue; no other reason.

Oh, give over. Fans were fed up with the style - or lack of style - of football which had no shape  no direction, no semblance of a plan. 

Wagner hasn't been much better results wise to he honest, but at least he has a bit of passion.