No wonder this country can't grow...

[king canary 7,653]

I went to visit my mum back in North Suffolk this weekend.

On the drive I went past so many signs protesting at any and all developments.

No to nuclear power!

No to housing!

No to pylons!

No to onshore wind!

No to offshore wind!

Is Suffolk the NIMBY capital of the country?

[TheGunnShow 5,983]

There are definitely occasions where one person's "NIMBY" is another person's evidence of more local-powered democracy. We had a funny one in my home area where a planned development for a block of apartments was rejected and the objectors were decried as NIMBYs - and when looking at the planned development it was easy to see why it was thrown out.

Totally out of character with the area, which was all bungalows.

[king canary 7,653]

3 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

There are definitely occasions where one person's "NIMBY" is another person's evidence of more local-powered democracy. We had a funny one in my home area where a planned development for a block of apartments was rejected and the objectors were decried as NIMBYs - and when looking at the planned development it was easy to see why it was thrown out.

Totally out of character with the area, which was all bungalows.

The objectors should be decried as nimby's.

'Oh no I might have to see a tall building, boo hoo.'

**** em.

[TheGunnShow 5,983]

Nah, they got themselves organised, took the fight to the local council/planning department, made a decent case and justifiably got it rejected. Had a similar one a couple of years ago where there was a plan to build a primary school (there's a large one two hundred yards away) on a local playing field and they'd clearly no idea of the traffic in that part of town, especially off the ring road and the main residential roads near there.

An area that's already bad at rush hour would have been jammed down that stretch of the ring road and with two primary schools practically diagonally opposite to each other. Again, strong local community efforts got it rejected.

I might not always agree with their wishes, but as someone who's a keen proponent of Swiss semi-direct democracy I'm generally pretty keen on local communities organising to keep their communities as they see fit, rather than having outside interests imposing everything on top of them.

Edited January 28 by TheGunnShow

[king canary 7,653]

So you're a NIMBY?

Fine but you're the reason we have housing shortages, no growth in our renewables etc etc.

I'm being a bit ridiculous, but the people who wanted to keep segregation wanted to 'keep their communities as they see fit.' Nothing noble about that when it is at the expense of everyone else.

[TheGunnShow 5,983]

Nope, the primary reason England has housing shortages is because there are far too many people here on a relatively small island. The short and long of it is that England is overpopulated. (Selling off social housing and not rebuilding enough wasn't very clever either).

That last paragraph, as you admitted, is certainly a bit ridiculous but shows how fundamentally good ideas can be weaponised to bad effect. I'd actually argue that most of the more pleasant parts where I am are due to communities actually working together and making it clear where they stand.

[Yellow Fever 3,817]

You can both be right. However strategic infrastructure needs to promptly override nimby objectors else we end up with cost overruns and delays as exemplified on HS2.

More locally, fine to object to a particular plan, but you must also identify a better location locally for the housing, schools, roads etc. Can't just say no.

 

[king canary 7,653]

15 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Nope, the primary reason England has housing shortages is because there are far too many people here on a relatively small island. The short and long of it is that England is overpopulated. (Selling off social housing and not rebuilding enough wasn't very clever either).

That last paragraph, as you admitted, is certainly a bit ridiculous but shows how fundamentally good ideas can be weaponised to bad effect. I'd actually argue that most of the more pleasant parts where I am are due to communities actually working together and making it clear where they stand.

Yes that is the reason but the solution is to build more housing (unless you fancy mass deportation and closed door immigration policy?).

We need housing. We need renewable energy. People bellyaching about 'character' usually actually mean 'mah house prices!!!' There was a great example recently where 'character' of an area was used to shut down an application for an HMO for people with learning disabilities. The ultimate in selfishness. 

We need a government strong enough to tell people like this to go **** themselves.

[king canary 7,653]

14 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

You can both be right. However strategic infrastructure needs to promptly override nimby objectors else we end up with cost overruns and delays as exemplified on HS2.

More locally, fine to object to a particular plan, but you must also identify a better location locally for the housing, schools, roads etc. Can't just say no.

 

HS2 a perfect example- the whole section that was going to be in tunnels because NIMBY Tory ****s in the countryside wouldn't let their view be spoiled and the government were too spineless to stand up as it might cost them votes, thus costs shot through the roof. 

 

 

[Herman 9,817]

I have seen signs against the East-to-West rail link in Cambridgeshire. I'm not sure why the locals are so against it because after closer examination, (linking Cambridge to Oxford doesn't seem that important on first glance), it seems a good idea, linking the main rail routes from north to south too.

https://eastwestrail.co.uk/

[Yellow Fever 3,817]

18 minutes ago, king canary said:

HS2 a perfect example- the whole section that was going to be in tunnels because NIMBY Tory ****s in the countryside wouldn't let their view be spoiled and the government were too spineless to stand up as it might cost them votes, thus costs shot through the roof. 

 

 

Absolutely. I used to live in the area. Recall all the HS2 crosses here signs!

Edited January 28 by Yellow Fever

[king canary 7,653]

1 minute ago, Herman said:

I have seen signs against the East-to-West rail link in Cambridgeshire. I'm not sure why the locals are so against it because after closer examination, (linking Cambridge to Oxford doesn't seem that important on first glance), it seems a good idea, linking the main rail routes from north to south too.

https://eastwestrail.co.uk/

Yes I drive past those signs regularly too.

To be blunt, they are against it because of selfishness. They don't want any disruption to their lives, they don't want any risk to their house prices. That is all there is to it.

[Yellow Fever 3,817]

4 minutes ago, king canary said:

Yes I drive past those signs regularly too.

To be blunt, they are against it because of selfishness. They don't want any disruption to their lives, they don't want any risk to their house prices. That is all there is to it.

Tell them it can be 6 lane motorway instead. A505 (M)

Edited January 28 by Yellow Fever

[dylanisabaddog 4,965]

9 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Nope, the primary reason England has housing shortages is because there are far too many people here on a relatively small island. The short and long of it is that England is overpopulated. (Selling off social housing and not rebuilding enough wasn't very clever either).

That last paragraph, as you admitted, is certainly a bit ridiculous but shows how fundamentally good ideas can be weaponised to bad effect. I'd actually argue that most of the more pleasant parts where I am are due to communities actually working together and making it clear where they stand.

I beg to differ. The primary reason there is a housing shortage is single people. There were 1m single person households at the time of the 1971 census. That figure now stands at 7m. 

[dylanisabaddog 4,965]

10 hours ago, king canary said:

I went to visit my mum back in North Suffolk this weekend.

On the drive I went past so many signs protesting at any and all developments.

No to nuclear power!

No to housing!

No to pylons!

No to onshore wind!

No to offshore wind!

Is Suffolk the NIMBY capital of the country?

I accept the sentiment but I've got an issue with the pylons. They will be a blight on a beautiful landscape for probably hundreds of years. They could go underground, either offshore or onshore but we are taking the cheap option. It's typical of this country and it's unacceptable. 

Sweden and Denmark seem to be able to dig a hole in the ground but not us. 

[Herman 9,817]

15 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I accept the sentiment but I've got an issue with the pylons. They will be a blight on a beautiful landscape for probably hundreds of years. They could go underground, either offshore or onshore but we are taking the cheap option. It's typical of this country and it's unacceptable. 

Sweden and Denmark seem to be able to dig a hole in the ground but not us. 

It can be done too. But as you say, they will go with the cheap option.

https://www.geplus.co.uk/news/dorset-pylons-felled-with-cables-buried-underground-30-09-2022/

I saw this very interesting graph and article from the FT t'other day. It's not just nimbies causing the problems.

 

[king canary 7,653]

Another victory for 'concerned local citizens' (aka selfish NIMBY twats).

They've saved an empty, dilapidated pub from being turned into accommodation for the homeless! What a win!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c19ydxw7938o

[The Raptor 1,227]

On 28/01/2024 at 20:22, king canary said:

I went to visit my mum back in North Suffolk this weekend.

On the drive I went past so many signs protesting at any and all developments.

No to nuclear power!

No to housing!

No to pylons!

No to onshore wind!

No to offshore wind!

Is Suffolk the NIMBY capital of the country?

They can write extra signs with their extra digits....

Joking aside. That is pretty negative

[Herman 9,817]

This doesn't help progress things. Also having many MPs as private landlords and shareholders in private building companies.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/feb/07/uk-minister-for-building-pylons-loses-role-after-campaigning-against-them