African American grievance imperialism.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,876]

A mixed race South African singer is sparking outrage in the US referring to herself as 'coloured'. In South Africa, the term is treated differently to in the US.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-67505674

Why are the grievances of the US African American community specific to their own culture allowed to dominate global conversations about race? What of her right to self-identification?

[Naturalcynic 791]

7 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

A mixed race South African singer is sparking outrage in the US referring to herself as 'coloured'. In South Africa, the term is treated differently to in the US.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-67505674

Why are the grievances of the US African American community specific to their own culture allowed to dominate global conversations about race? What of her right to self-identification?

Always thought it was a manufactured grievance.  Does this mean we can finally stop using that ridiculous term “of colour”?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,876]

16 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

Always thought it was a manufactured grievance.  Does this mean we can finally stop using that ridiculous term “of colour”?

It was the prevailing term in the Jim Crow era so I can understand it being a sensitive term in the US African American population.

I just think it's interesting the difference in attitudes between South Africa and in the US on this, given that the use of the term does stem from eras of segregation in both countries that were quite similar in character, arguably worse in South Africa. The terminology remained in place in South Africa for the purposes of positive discrimination post-apartheid, which negates the historic negativity from the apartheid era, while I suppose African Americans relate the term to an open (from their point of view) grievance.

The thing I disliked most about the BLM protests in the UK was the way it was a direct export of outrage over a murder n the US that was turned into an argument about racism in the UK, but one where pretty much all the arguments were a straight copy and paste of the arguments in the USA I think the way African Americans are putting their sensibilities ahead of a South African of the same ethnic background from a country with a similar, arguably worse, past of segregation seems rather inward-looking and arrogant, like the experience of African Americans regarding racism is the most important experience of racism.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Naturalcynic 791]

8 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

It was the prevailing term in the Jim Crow era so I can understand it being a sensitive term in the US African American population.

I just think it's interesting the difference in attitudes between South Africa and in the US on this, given that the use of the term does stem from eras of segregation in both countries that were quite similar in character, arguably worse in South Africa. The terminology remained in place in South Africa for the purposes of positive discrimination post-apartheid, which negates the historic negativity from the apartheid era, while I suppose African Americans relate the term to an open (from their point of view) grievance.

The thing I disliked most about the BLM protests in the UK was the way it was a direct export of outrage over a murder n the US that was turned into an argument about racism in the UK, but one where pretty much all the arguments were a straight copy and paste of the arguments in the USA I think the way African Americans are putting their sensibilities ahead of a South African of the same ethnic background from a country with a similar, arguably worse, past of segregation seems rather inward-looking and arrogant, like the experience of African Americans regarding racism is the most important experience of racism.

 

 

Almost as if it’s a politically-motivated grievance.  Surely not.

[Foxy2600 329]

Common problem with the English language - semantics, double meanings and the same words for a dozen different things.

Every foreigner that picks me up “ You English are all the same, never could be bothered to learn our language!”… I tell them OK, you expect me to learn German, Spanish, Chinese and French do you? Well, stop using my language first and then we’ll talk…

There are probably 100’s of alternatives to Coloured that could be used? Surely there must be some common ground between US and SA??

[king canary 8,085]

US Cultural Imperialsm is a problem in general, not sure why this issue specifically needs singling out.

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,876]

On 14/12/2023 at 10:48, king canary said:

US Cultural Imperialsm is a problem in general, not sure why this issue specifically needs singling out.

 

It was striking to me in that the movement associates strongly with a lot of counter-cultural ideas in American culture, and its grievances are primarily with America itself; and yet in this very important aspect regarding sensitivities over history n its own country taking precedence over sensitivities over history elsewhere, it's very American. The story and the irony made it worth singling out for my tastes.

Edited December 15, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Iwans Big Toe 339]

 

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Iwans Big Toe

[horsefly 4,732]

On 09/12/2023 at 22:21, Naturalcynic said:

Always thought it was a manufactured grievance

Sure! Slavery was a manufactured grievance was it? I suppose neither were there signs banning "coloureds" from washrooms, the fronts of buses, or schools, and restaurants etc.

[Naturalcynic 791]

2 hours ago, horsefly said:

Sure! Slavery was a manufactured grievance was it? I suppose neither were there signs banning "coloureds" from washrooms, the fronts of buses, or schools, and restaurants etc.

Slavery was many generations ago.  As for the signs you refer to, in the US perhaps but not in this country, so why have we imported the grievance?

[horsefly 4,732]

1 hour ago, Naturalcynic said:

Slavery was many generations ago.  As for the signs you refer to, in the US perhaps but not in this country, so why have we imported the grievance?

I guess your memory doesn't extend back as far as the 1950s, '60s, and 70s. Also the fact that slavery was "many generations ago" does not lessen the grievance. Britain's wealth was built upon exploitation of slavery, and exploitation of the empire. It was only in 2015 that compensation to former slave owning families was finally paid off by the government. Funny how your lot don't think it an issue worth commenting upon that the slave owners' "grievance" at the loss of the opportunity to exploit slavery should be compensated, even into the 21st century.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,876]

5 hours ago, horsefly said:

I guess your memory doesn't extend back as far as the 1950s, '60s, and 70s. Also the fact that slavery was "many generations ago" does not lessen the grievance. Britain's wealth was built upon exploitation of slavery, and exploitation of the empire. It was only in 2015 that compensation to former slave owning families was finally paid off by the government. Funny how your lot don't think it an issue worth commenting upon that the slave owners' "grievance" at the loss of the opportunity to exploit slavery should be compensated, even into the 21st century.

And where does compensation from the black chiefs in Africa who sold their own people into slavery factor into this equation? Where's the compensation for the families of white Cornish fisherman sold into slavery in West Africa?Where's the compensation for the slaves of the Roman Empire?

It's not really about race at all. It's just exploitation. People exploit other people. That's just the way people roll.

Edited December 16, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie