CDM ?

[Capt. Pants 4,246]

1 hour ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

I'm not sure I agree on this. Arsenal now went out and spent £100m on this exact type of player, not to mention numerous other examples of a number 6 in top clubs.

I would be very surprised if Knapper doesn't feel the need for a specialist CDM. Partey, Rice, Elneny and Jorginho currently do that role and previously Xhaka.

We'd probably get away with not having one if he can find the next Odegaard!

[Petriix 2,839]

3 hours ago, BigFish said:

This is received wisdom amongst a section of the fanbase. The game has moved on and this simplistic view really doesn't reflect how it is played anymore. Read Ben Mee's match analysis to learn about what is going on. We have tactical issues when OOP but that is nor necessarily manpower related.

This is flawed logic amongst a few 'experts' (apparently including Wagner). If you play midfielders who don't have the right defensive instincts and positional awareness then they will be prone to leaving gaping holes for the opposition to exploit. Our 'tactical issues' ultimately amount to players not recognising and reacting to the danger. 

While some of the more simplistic arguments simply call for 'a CDM', what people like me are asking for is someone to play the exact role that McLean has been playing but with better defensive skills. Then Kenny can play the role Sara has been doing and Sara can play at 10, thus utilising their natural instincts rather than continuing the 'square pegs in round holes' that most of us can see. 

[Danke bitte 965]

42 minutes ago, Petriix said:

what people like me are asking for is someone to play the exact role that McLean has been playing but with better defensive skills.

A better Tom Trybull as a crude comparison maybe?

[BigFish 1,988]

4 hours ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

I'm not sure I agree on this. Arsenal now went out and spent £100m on this exact type of player, not to mention numerous other examples of a number 6 in top clubs.

If you look at Rice's heat map he is doing more of his work in the oppositions half e.g. the point he is he is not playing as what fans think of as a CDM, more an 8.

I agree with @Petriix's point that what we need is physical, better defensively, McLean upgrade who will play with McLean. That is not a classic CDM, but a player who plays where Sara does, but does the dirty side as well. But no way is Sara a 10, not now, not never.

[ged in the onion bag 855]

2 hours ago, Petriix said:

This is flawed logic amongst a few 'experts' (apparently including Wagner). If you play midfielders who don't have the right defensive instincts and positional awareness then they will be prone to leaving gaping holes for the opposition to exploit. Our 'tactical issues' ultimately amount to players not recognising and reacting to the danger. 

While some of the more simplistic arguments simply call for 'a CDM', what people like me are asking for is someone to play the exact role that McLean has been playing but with better defensive skills. Then Kenny can play the role Sara has been doing and Sara can play at 10, thus utilising their natural instincts rather than continuing the 'square pegs in round holes' that most of us can see. 

I agree with this, it could even be implemented right now to our benefit... all he has to do is put Gibbs in the CDM role and push the other two forward.    Gibbs gets the chance to develop, we have a player in there that will sense danger quicker than McLean does and screen the defence better.    We aren't going down and we certainly need to steer clear of going up right now so why not!   It also gives us a more productive forward option with Sara.   

[ged in the onion bag 855]

25 minutes ago, BigFish said:

If you look at Rice's heat map he is doing more of his work in the oppositions half e.g. the point he is he is not playing as what fans think of as a CDM, more an 8.

I agree with @Petriix's point that what we need is physical, better defensively, McLean upgrade who will play with McLean. That is not a classic CDM, but a player who plays where Sara does, but does the dirty side as well. But no way is Sara a 10, not now, not never.

Neither is Barnes, never ever!  

[Worthy Nigelton 1,051]

On 08/12/2023 at 17:03, BigFish said:

If you look at Rice's heat map he is doing more of his work in the oppositions half e.g. the point he is he is not playing as what fans think of as a CDM, more an 8.

I agree with @Petriix's point that what we need is physical, better defensively, McLean upgrade who will play with McLean. That is not a classic CDM, but a player who plays where Sara does, but does the dirty side as well. But no way is Sara a 10, not now, not never.

I agree. I don't think we need a Makelele who sits in front of the defence, but we need someone who is a specialist at breaking up playing, winning the ball back and snuffing out counter attacks - basically another Skipp. McLean does none of these things effectively. Sorry, I meant McLean does nothing effectively.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Worthy Nigelton

[BigFish 1,988]

Apart from the dig at Kenny, this is pretty much my point.

Edited December 9, 2023 by BigFish