Covid enquiry today

[PurpleCanary 5,580]

28 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

What has been happening at the inquiry in the last few days has been the module into what happened at the top level of government. Which, although necessary, given that every major decision was taken by politicians, was bound to be partly accusatory and back-covering. But that ended today. I don't know what the other modules are but quite possibly one will be focused on the science.

According to wiki, there are four more modules now to come:

1. Resilience and preparedness
2. Core UK decision-making and political governance
3. Impact of Covid-19 pandemic on healthcare systems in the 4 nations of the UK
4. Vaccines and therapeutics
5. Procurement
6. Care sector

[littleyellowbirdie 2,576]

10 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

For me - the giveaway is that Johnson missed the first 5 (FIVE) cobra meetings on a clear threat that killed hundreds of thousands and potentially millions of Brits.

That smacks of gross incompetence or of not being across his brief. It is inexcusable.

Sack him.

Oh wait.

[dylanisabaddog 4,970]

10 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

According to wiki, there are four more modules now to come:

1. Resilience and preparedness
2. Core UK decision-making and political governance
3. Impact of Covid-19 pandemic on healthcare systems in the 4 nations of the UK
4. Vaccines and therapeutics
5. Procurement
6. Care sector

5 and 6 should be interesting 

[KiwiScot 1,459]

14 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

According to wiki, there are four more modules now to come:

1. Resilience and preparedness
2. Core UK decision-making and political governance
3. Impact of Covid-19 pandemic on healthcare systems in the 4 nations of the UK
4. Vaccines and therapeutics
5. Procurement
6. Care sector

Surely that can be all of it? Without brainstorming how about law and order? Enforcing the lockdowns for example and border restrictions.

[dylanisabaddog 4,970]

1 hour ago, KiwiScot said:

Surely that can be all of it? Without brainstorming how about law and order? Enforcing the lockdowns for example and border restrictions.

You make a very good point. I would also have liked a review of how other countries dealt with the problem. Surely we could learn lessons from those that fared better and worse? It may be that the W.H.O is doing this. 

Edited December 12, 2023 by dylanisabaddog

[Barbe bleu 832]

40 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

You make a very good point. I would also have liked a review of how other countries dealt with the problem. Surely we could learn lessons from those that fared better and worse? It may be that the W.H.O is doing this. 

International comparisons were a massive part of the conversations people were having during covid so its omission is notable.

Realistically though it's probably a non starter.  Do we take evidence from leaders of every country? would we trust all of that evidence? Would it be worth the diplomatic incident of the inquiry repoet were critical of other nations?  Is there really any useful and scientific way of comparing two nations with different cultures, customs, climates, geographies, climates and genetics?

 

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

17 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

International comparisons were a massive part of the conversations people were having during covid so its omission is notable.

Realistically though it's probably a non starter.  Do we take evidence from leaders of every country? would we trust all of that evidence? Would it be worth the diplomatic incident of the inquiry repoet were critical of other nations?  Is there really any useful and scientific way of comparing two nations with different cultures, customs, climates, geographies, climates and genetics?

 

Yes - It difficult to compare any two countries unless they are almost twins - some look at Sweden and the more relaxed lock-downs - but they had a different more naturally isolating culture anyway (comparison of Sweden, Norway & Denmark would be better). Each country had it's very own specific challenges (Italy for instance got little to no warning) and demographics.

Even that said - surely what we've already learnt is the politicians (and I guess the lawyers too) wouldn't have a scooby as to what the science or statistic says anyway - preferring soundbites, anecdotes or plain cherry picking.

[Barbe bleu 832]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Yes - It difficult to compare any two countries unless they are almost twins - some look at Sweden and the more relaxed lock-downs - 

True,  in many ways sweden would be a much better comparison for us than almost any other country, but its still a million miles away from being UK2. 

To be even handed, and comparisons in this have almost invariably been cited not to learn from but solely to criticise, i think its worth saying that I would say the same about NZ, close (well not literally) but not the UK. 

[dylanisabaddog 4,970]

17 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

International comparisons were a massive part of the conversations people were having during covid so its omission is notable.

Realistically though it's probably a non starter.  Do we take evidence from leaders of every country? would we trust all of that evidence? Would it be worth the diplomatic incident of the inquiry repoet were critical of other nations?  Is there really any useful and scientific way of comparing two nations with different cultures, customs, climates, geographies, climates and genetics?

 

Yes, you make a good point, but perhaps we could just look at the countries that had more positive outcomes. 

Another thing that has struck me is that at the start behavioural scientists were confident that the UK population wouldn't tolerate lockdown. I'm sure we all saw examples of people behaving badly but in general I'd say the scientists were hopelessly wrong. To save anyone having a rant, I know that one address was a bit of a problem. 

 @PurpleCanaryhas made a good point somewhere above about the nature of the proceedings but I'm still not convinced that we've got it right. The current subject is governance and decision making processes but the KC is concentrating on individuals rather than government structure and processes. That's completely pointless, if something similar happens again it will be a different set of people in charge. Quite simply we got unlucky with timing. 

[Well b back 3,267]

I hope certain people, both in government and some posters are watching breathtaking on itv at the moment, with a heavy heart. Maybe yet another ITV programme will have the same reaction as Bates v Post Office.