6 wins in 23

[king canary 7,607]

23 hours ago, Google Bot said:

We brought him in as we wanted a manager to define a style of play and rigid system as we were fed up with Smith's entirely reactive/unidentifiable system. 

I'm afraid he's doing what it says on the tin, and yes it is very frustrating, but just as per Farke you have to provide coach's like this with the players as they are not reactive types but stubborn and extremely regimented based on their beleifs.

Not sure I agree that Wagner is just doing what is said on the tin.

Farke didn't rip up his tactics to suit players sure but he'd make tweaks. We didn't play the exact same type of balls we would for Pukki to Hugill or Rhodes if they had to start for example. Wagner seems to refuse to make even basic tweaks in his style. 

[S_81 797]

9 minutes ago, king canary said:

Not sure I agree that Wagner is just doing what is said on the tin.

Farke didn't rip up his tactics to suit players sure but he'd make tweaks. We didn't play the exact same type of balls we would for Pukki to Hugill or Rhodes if they had to start for example. Wagner seems to refuse to make even basic tweaks in his style. 

Because he’s inept. He hardly has a workable plan A yet alone a plan B. I don’t think I’ve seen a more ineffective manager with his subs. He regularly makes things even worse, in fact. 

[Google Bot 3,278]

9 minutes ago, king canary said:

Not sure I agree that Wagner is just doing what is said on the tin.

Sorry, but he has always been like this, and doing exactly as said on the tin.  The relation to Farke is that you have to provide these guys the correct tools and they will do wonders.

The difference with Farke is that he had a quality squad at this level that were suited to the technical plan.  But without Emi we had no alternate plan and struggled to pick up points as the famous Sky Sports infographic detailed.

Wagner has been without Sarge, Barnes and Sainz - all marked as key players this season, imagine Farke going till Christmas without either Emi or Pukki.  How wonderful would his system have looked in contrast?

In regards to Wagner and whats 'on the tin', we know from his previous jobs and the day he walked in that he was very set in his ways of who plays where, the number of players he likes to work with in each position, and his pre-determined beliefs such as sticking with a fixed backline for longterm benefits, and that work rate, pace and ability to press gets you in the team above technical ability.

In my opinion, anyway.

[shefcanary 2,409]

1 minute ago, Google Bot said:

Sorry, but he has always been like this, and doing exactly as said on the tin.  The relation to Farke is that you have to provide these guys the correct tools and they will do wonders.

The difference with Farke is that he had a quality squad at this level that were suited to the technical plan.  But without Emi we had no alternate plan and struggled to pick up points as the famous Sky Sports infographic detailed.

Wagner has been without Sarge, Barnes and Sainz - all marked as key players this season, imagine Farke going till Christmas without either Emi or Pukki.  How wonderful would his system have looked in contrast?

In regards to Wagner and whats 'on the tin', we know from his previous jobs and the day he walked in that he was very set in his ways of who plays where, the number of players he likes to work with in each position, and his pre-determined beliefs such as sticking with a fixed backline for longterm benefits, and that work rate, pace and ability to press gets you in the team above technical ability.

In my opinion, anyway.

All true. What is needed is a senior independent voice within the club to ensure word gets through to Wagner that for once in his managerial life he has to do something different to justify his presence at the club. Or admit defeat and get out. Trouble is, we haven't got such a voice, and haven't for nearly four years now. I don't think the club can wait for the interim stasis we now face to end on 26 January 2026 for this to change however. Either allow Attanasio to take complete charge or get in an independent chair now!

[king canary 7,607]

15 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Sorry, but he has always been like this, and doing exactly as said on the tin.  The relation to Farke is that you have to provide these guys the correct tools and they will do wonders.

The difference with Farke is that he had a quality squad at this level that were suited to the technical plan.  But without Emi we had no alternate plan and struggled to pick up points as the famous Sky Sports infographic detailed.

Wagner has been without Sarge, Barnes and Sainz - all marked as key players this season, imagine Farke going till Christmas without either Emi or Pukki.  How wonderful would his system have looked in contrast?

In regards to Wagner and whats 'on the tin', we know from his previous jobs and the day he walked in that he was very set in his ways of who plays where, the number of players he likes to work with in each position, and his pre-determined beliefs such as sticking with a fixed backline for longterm benefits, and that work rate, pace and ability to press gets you in the team above technical ability.

In my opinion, anyway.

Think I misunderstood your point then.

By doing what it says on the tin I thought you meant the managerial role - ie it is his job to have a rigid style and stick to it, rather than the tin in this case being Wagner himself.

So yeah I agree this is who he is. Just a shame who he is isn't a very good football manager.

[Google Bot 3,278]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

Just a shame who he is isn't a very good football manager.

That's how it's panning out in the current scenario isn't it, sadly.  Everything just feels without a plan right now, i'm not even sure where to place my expectations or what to think of Wagner, particularly as I like him as a person.

Start of the season i thought we'd be in and around the playoffs so I'd see this as a dip and thinking all is ok once players are back.   But seeing Ipswich current form and league position really shows what a mess we're in when you compare the riches we've had come our way via the prem league.

[Google Bot 3,278]

1 hour ago, shefcanary said:

What is needed is a senior independent voice within the club to ensure word gets through to Wagner that for once in his managerial life he has to do something different to justify his presence at the club

It's what we signed up for when we went with a head coach structure vs traditional manager.  I think people wondering what the difference is, this is it in a nut shell.

The success of a Head Coach is more related to working and employing a defined system, and scored on how well the players are trained, selected and adapt to that system.  Results, and what's best for this club are secondary with the innate belief that the system is king.

If the players aren't good enough to fulfil the system, then where does the finger get pointed?  Many people said it at the time, and i'm starting to agree that in hindsight Webber was probably the one to go, not Farke.  As we're plagued with the same issues, only at Championship level now.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,165]

13 hours ago, king canary said:

But...why?

I can understand giving managers time if we're confident they are working towards something. But what signs can we see that Wagner has a long term plan he's getting the players working towards? He had a large chunk of last season to assess the players, he's had fresh blood added this summer and a full pre-season to get his team playing his way and...it just isn't working? You don't have to give managers time just for the sake of it. 

All the things you've said about Wagner could have been said about Farke in his first season (bar having a chunk of the previous season) - all those things could definitely have been said about Farke in our second Premier League season under him, if not the first.

We've got both our first choice strikers out injured - and that would hurt any team. Meanwhile, of the best central defenders we had when Wagner arrived one has been out with a long term injury and the other has been sold. 

I can still remember you eulogising about Dean Smith after his first couple of games when he took over so...........................