Major rebuild needed

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

21 minutes ago, repman said:

Would these Germans get work permits though?

 

20 minutes ago, Captain Holt said:

Brexit says no.

 

How is it then that Huddersfield had a Polish defender in their side today who came to the UK in 2020, post-Brexit.

At that time he had 0 international caps, and the Polish top tier is the highest level he'd played at.

Are you telling me we can sign players from the Polish league but not Bundesliga 2?

They also have French player with 0 caps, who hadn't played any senior football in France, that they signed in 2020 at the age of 20. No international caps.

Are these rules really as strict as you are making out? 

Anyway, if it can't be Germany then how about Japan. Celtic have had a field day bringing in Japanese players, bet they'd show some fight.

Edited March 15, 2023 by TeemuVanBasten

[repman 635]

6 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Under McNally we managed to find undervalued players domestically.

And clubs still manage to do this now. 

Pilkington and Bennett were signed from League One when we were in the Premier League. For some reason Webber has always been averse to shopping in the lower leagues.

McNally then left us with the gift of Godfrey from League Two and Maddison from League One.

One of the biggest 4-6 sides in this league will have Connor Chaplin off of Ipswich if they fail to win promotion this season. 

Like I said this bargain basement just doesn't seem to exist anymore. You've cited players who were signed well over 5 years ago now, 2 of which were youngsters who didn't impact our team for a couple of years after joining.

Someone may take Chaplin off Ipswich if they fail to go up but he's already 26 years old and has a year left on his deal, there's hardly much upside to dream on with him.

I'm just not sure there are many cheap players coming out of those leagues anymore, maybe some youngsters but very rarely you get a bargain on someone who can impact your team right away.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

17 minutes ago, repman said:

Someone may take Chaplin off Ipswich if they fail to go up but he's already 26 years old and has a year left on his deal, there's hardly much upside to dream on with him.

We signed a 25 year old Wes Hoolahan from Blackpool and a 27 year old Grant Holt from Shrewsbury and there was plenty of upside with both. Meanwhile Pukki was 28 when he joined us, and Iwan Robert had just turned 29.

26 is a good age. You have people on here saying that Angus Gunn is "the future", well I know goalkeepers can play a bit longer, but he's 27.

As much as I appreciate that the club wants a 21 year old who they can flog in 3 years for £20m, it can't be every player, we need a bit of experience, a few streetwise players who have been around the block. Could argue that we could really have done with Lukas Rupp sticking around this season.

In the summer we are likely to lose Pukki and Byram from the dressing room, and suspect we're looking to lose Krul to free up wages, so I don't think one or two that side of 25 will be a bad thing. 

If you want younger though, if Derby fail to go up then Max Bird their 6ft 22 year old DM with almost 150 games under his belt. Mint player, entering last year of his deal so they'll be looking to cash in. That's the type of player we should be signing.

Some other club get him, say Blackburn, has 1 good season for them and suddenly we're priced out. Webber had consistently neglected the domestic market. 

Edited March 15, 2023 by TeemuVanBasten

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

11 minutes ago, repman said:

Like I said this bargain basement just doesn't seem to exist anymore. You've cited players who were signed well over 5 years ago now, 2 of which were youngsters who didn't impact our team for a couple of years after joining.

Someone may take Chaplin off Ipswich if they fail to go up but he's already 26 years old and has a year left on his deal, there's hardly much upside to dream on with him.

I'm just not sure there are many cheap players coming out of those leagues anymore, maybe some youngsters but very rarely you get a bargain on someone who can impact your team right away.

How do you know there aren't any good players in L1/2?

[repman 635]

3 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

We signed a 25 year old Wes Hoolahan from Blackpool and a 27 year old Grant Holt from Shrewsbury and there was plenty of upside with both. Meanwhile Pukki was 28 when he joined us, and Iwan Robert had just turned 29.

26 is a good age. You have people on here saying that Angus Gunn is "the future", well I know goalkeepers can play a bit longer, but he's 27.

As much as I appreciate that the club wants a 21 year old who they can flog in 3 years for £20m, it can't be every player, we need a bit of experience, a few streetwise players who have been around the block. Could argue that we could really have done with Lukas Rupp sticking around this season.

In the summer we are likely to lose Pukki and Byram from the dressing room, and suspect we're looking to lose Krul to free up wages, so I don't think one or two that side of 25 will be a bad thing. 

We signed Rupp for 500k that's exactly my point, there's much better value elsewhere.

The year we signed Pukki and Buendia Ipswich stocked their side full of players from L1, spending a decent chunk in the process too.

I'm not saying there aren't good players there but there is better value to be had shopping in other countries.

Maybe post brexit it's different but I'd wager that most L1/2 clubs are wise to that and will put prices up accordingly.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

3 minutes ago, repman said:

We signed Rupp for 500k that's exactly my point, there's much better value elsewhere.

The year we signed Pukki and Buendia Ipswich stocked their side full of players from L1, spending a decent chunk in the process too.

I'm not saying there aren't good players there but there is better value to be had shopping in other countries.

Maybe post brexit it's different but I'd wager that most L1/2 clubs are wise to that and will put prices up accordingly.

This season the few players to make the move from League One to the Championship for a seven figure fee are:

• Scott Twine - MK Dons to Burnley
• Harry Darling - MK Dons to Swansea
• Luke McNally - Oxford Utd to Burnley

Biggest fee of the three was about £2.5m.

Think you are massively overestimating how much the typical Championship club can spend on transfer fees these days, the idea that the fees are hugely inflated is fanciful, we're really a complete freak case dropping £8m on a Brazilian, most teams have spent next to f*ck all.

McNally has gone back out on loan (to Coventry), but Twine featuring a fair bit recently. Hardly footballs best kept secret was he, struggle to see how Webber would find a better winger for £2.5m.... we're talking about a chap who spent that much on Placheta.

Transfer fees outside of the Premier League are seriously depressed. 

Meanwhile Luton signed four players from League One clubs in the summer and are 4th in the table, and Blackburn signed 2 players from League One clubs in the summer, both regulars in their team and they are 5th.

The old aged model of signing the best players from the league below which worked so well for us under McNally seems to still work for other teams. 

[repman 635]

2 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

This season the few players to make the move from League One to the Championship for a seven figure fee are:

• Scott Twine - MK Dons to Burnley
• Harry Darling - MK Dons to Swansea
• Luke McNally - Oxford Utd to Burnley

Biggest fee of the three was about £2.5m.

Think you are massively overestimating how much the typical Championship club can spend on transfer fees these days, the idea that the fees are hugely inflated is fanciful, we're really a complete freak case dropping £8m on a Brazilian, most teams have spent next to f*ck all.

McNally has gone back out on loan (to Coventry), but Twine featuring a fair bit recently. Hardly footballs best kept secret was he, struggle to see how Webber would find a better winger for £2.5m.... we're talking about a chap who spent that much on Placheta.

Transfer fees outside of the Premier League are seriously depressed. 

Meanwhile Luton signed four players from League One clubs in the summer and are 4th in the table, and Blackburn signed 2 players from League One clubs in the summer, both regulars in their team and they are 5th.

The old aged model of signing the best players from the league below which worked so well for us under McNally seems to still work for other teams. 

Twine was definitely more than £2.5m

I'm not saying there's no players there but it's hardly full of steals is it? I'd have taken either Darling or Twine any day but they weren't immediate areas of concern for us going into the season.

Luton signed all their players from recently relegated sides so it's not like they were players who'd been performing in L1 ready to step up. What Luton do ensure is that they have a top quality coach, Jones failed at Southampton but always managed to get Luton punching above their weight and Rob Edwards is now doing the same.

 

[Richard Richard 186]

8 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I would hope that we'd have scouts compiling lists of Germans out of contract in the summer to be honest.

We could do worse than to take a punt on a load of Germans again to compliment our kids, the grit and determination of the likes of Trybull, Stiepermann, Zimmermann, would rather watch that then this sh*t any day of the week, whether we're 15th or 5th.

It isn't even that we're sh*t, we've not got enough real men in the team, no warriors. Look at young AO coming on and throwing himself in front of anything and everything like he's Terry Butcher in a cup final. See a bit of that in Gibbs now and again too, so lets get him bedded in, start him every week.

Lets start with AO and Gibbs. Oh and give McCallum the rest of this season to try and impress, I don't really rate McCallum but the Greek is a write off and must be costing us a f*cking fortune, and at least McCallum can win balls in the air.

AO, Gibbs, McCallum, start them all, for the rest of the season, blood them for next year. Get Rowe involved too.

This. 100%.

[shefcanary 2,443]

12 hours ago, Captain Holt said:

People expecting a 30m cash injection to rebuild this squad, which is what I think is needed to even get the play offs, are in for a big shock.

It will come, but not a direct injection. Attanasio will replace what is left to pay on our short term loans (remember secured on our future parachute payments) with a long term loan from one of his own companies, thus freeing up the parachute payment to spend on the squad. Not ideal, but should at least allow for some wheeling and dealing. We may well receive a further £40m after selling Sara (£25m - some may see this as counter-productive but I don't think Sara will give us the chnace to retain him), a dividend of £6-8m from Maddisons eventual sale by Leicester to the Toon or ManUre, plus £5m for sale of Rashica to Gala. 

I agree with the premise a complete re-build is required. The above should provide a pot of £70m. Not all will be made available but no more than what Burnley had to play with.

However my past experience tells me even with that pot it will take 2-3 years before we are truly competitive again.

[shefcanary 2,443]

12 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

 

 

How is it then that Huddersfield had a Polish defender in their side today who came to the UK in 2020, post-Brexit.

At that time he had 0 international caps, and the Polish top tier is the highest level he'd played at.

Are you telling me we can sign players from the Polish league but not Bundesliga 2?

They also have French player with 0 caps, who hadn't played any senior football in France, that they signed in 2020 at the age of 20. No international caps.

Are these rules really as strict as you are making out? 

Anyway, if it can't be Germany then how about Japan. Celtic have had a field day bringing in Japanese players, bet they'd show some fight.

Post Brexit rules didn't formally kick in until 31 January 2021, albeit the FA had pre-empted the new rules by applying stricter EU rules from after the 2020 summer transfer window.

[Grando 268]

What position does this Major Rebuild play? I really hope it's up front or as a defensive central midfielder...

[Soldier on 160]

5 hours ago, shefcanary said:

It will come, but not a direct injection. Attanasio will replace what is left to pay on our short term loans (remember secured on our future parachute payments) with a long term loan from one of his own companies, thus freeing up the parachute payment to spend on the squad. Not ideal, but should at least allow for some wheeling and dealing. We may well receive a further £40m after selling Sara (£25m - some may see this as counter-productive but I don't think Sara will give us the chnace to retain him), a dividend of £6-8m from Maddisons eventual sale by Leicester to the Toon or ManUre, plus £5m for sale of Rashica to Gala. 

I agree with the premise a complete re-build is required. The above should provide a pot of £70m. Not all will be made available but no more than what Burnley had to play with.

However my past experience tells me even with that pot it will take 2-3 years before we are truly competitive again.

Best we can hope for for a Madders sell on is circa 3 million isn’t it? Based on 15% of any profit on 25 million and say a 40 million sale.

 

hopefully Attanassio will want to make a mark and improve us on the pitch as soon as possible.

should be a massive chunk of saved wages with the likes of Hayden, Byram, sinani etc all departing.