YellowYawner 6 Posted November 27, 2020 10 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said: I think he's already on 3, he got sent off versus Stoke, Burnley and also Watford (I believe) last season or the season before didn't he? As others have said, if it is his temperament that is stopping him getting a move then I would rather they keep coming than lose him completely... And despite his record I would not describe him as a malicious player at all, its not like he's put in any Roy Keane / Kevin Muscat type tackles - he's just a bit too eager to win the ball back sometimes, that's literally all it is. Really hard to fault him too much IMO and I don't see it as a significant flaw which would justify him not getting a big money move - although I am certainly thankful for it! Agree with that - full blooded but not malicious. Except it wasn’t Watford it was QPR and like Stoke we were 3-0 up at the time. You may have been thinking of Watford as that’s when he came in for criticism for losing the ball that led to their goal. As others have said while they are frustrating I’ll accept the annual red card when you consider what he gives to the team. And hey - at least he saves them for when we are 3-0 up or already relegated :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alex Moss 2,165 Posted November 27, 2020 For whatever reason, it looks like Emi has removed his Instagram and Twitter (?), I looked as I wanted to see what tribute he gave to Maradona. As for Emi and Madders, both are blessed with an awesome ability, I don’t think any of us can say one or the other is a much better player though. But on several occasions I’ve seen Emi pull the ball out of the air for instance in a way very very few can - moments that are simply breathtaking. No question Madders to date has the better goal scoring record, but for moments of real wizardry that remind me of a certain little fella who passed away this week, then Emi takes that one. Best first touch/pass I think I’ve ever seen from a City player. Everything about the execution was just simply outrageous. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hank shoots Skyler 2,094 Posted November 27, 2020 5 hours ago, Alex Moss said: For whatever reason, it looks like Emi has removed his Instagram and Twitter (?), I looked as I wanted to see what tribute he gave to Maradona. As for Emi and Madders, both are blessed with an awesome ability, I don’t think any of us can say one or the other is a much better player though. But on several occasions I’ve seen Emi pull the ball out of the air for instance in a way very very few can - moments that are simply breathtaking. No question Madders to date has the better goal scoring record, but for moments of real wizardry that remind me of a certain little fella who passed away this week, then Emi takes that one. Best first touch/pass I think I’ve ever seen from a City player. Everything about the execution was just simply outrageous. Yeah I'd agree with that. I was going to add a note in my last post on how I felt like I enjoy watching Buendia more than Maddison - regardless of who would edge it as a better player overall - and I think that's probably what it possibly boils down to. Maddison plays with an arrogance (in a good way) but Buendia plays with joy and unpredictability. Maddison would often do things very well but it was usually the 'good' thing you would expect him to do (i.e. the best through ball option, working space for a shot). Whereas Buendia will often show flashes of brilliance which are just out of this world and make you go WOW - that back heel versus Hull was one of those moments for sure. But as you say there's been a few times this season where he's plucked the ball out of the sky with ridiculous skill, or retained possession in a seemingly impossible position. I feel we are extremely fortunate to get to watch him for another season - hopefully we can keep him in Jan and get promoted so we can get at least another one! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alex Moss 2,165 Posted November 27, 2020 8 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said: Yeah I'd agree with that. I was going to add a note in my last post on how I felt like I enjoy watching Buendia more than Maddison - regardless of who would edge it as a better player overall - and I think that's probably what it possibly boils down to. Maddison plays with an arrogance (in a good way) but Buendia plays with joy and unpredictability. Maddison would often do things very well but it was usually the 'good' thing you would expect him to do (i.e. the best through ball option, working space for a shot). Whereas Buendia will often show flashes of brilliance which are just out of this world and make you go WOW - that back heel versus Hull was one of those moments for sure. But as you say there's been a few times this season where he's plucked the ball out of the sky with ridiculous skill, or retained possession in a seemingly impossible position. I feel we are extremely fortunate to get to watch him for another season - hopefully we can keep him in Jan and get promoted so we can get at least another one! You’ve summed it up far better than I could, Hank, and that was exactly the word I was thinking of - the unpredictability that Emi brings to the game. That’s the difference, and what real geniuses create. Unpredictability. I would love to see him capped for the Argentina national side in his time here. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicken 2,627 Posted November 27, 2020 Maddison Vs Buendia... On paper there is hardly a dispute. Assists and goals Maddison is streaks ahead. I have said before, I really dislike the "chances" stat. All it means is you passed to someone that shot. Doesn't mean it was a good chance, or you even intended for them to shoot from your pass. People then mistakenly qualify this as assists that were not converted... It's a bit like the pass completion stat. I think Sorenson got the most passes and the best pass completion stat in one of our recent games, yet I think it would be fair to say most of his passes were to other defenders. I think Gibson may have had the most touches so that sort of highlights how stats can be both good and bad. Context is needed before you can rely on them too heavily. Buendia can be fun to watch because of that 'unpredictable' element, though I prefer not to call it unpredictable, he knows what he is doing, it isn't by accident it is the talent he has, that's what it is to be a creative player. But where I think Maddison is ahead of him is decision making and calmness. As often as Buendia can be brilliant, he can be the opposite. He can frustrate. He can take on four players at once and never look like beating them, he can make a poor pass choice that breaks down our play before we have really held onto the ball in the opponents half. He can ignore a pass and take on a player to lose it. That's the flip side to the creative bit. You don't mind him doing it in the opponents half, but in your own half? In the premier league I think he had a very unwanted stat of being one of the worst culprits for giving the ball away. And it was a hard balance. Do you play him for the chances he might create or do you not play him for the chances he may give away? Unpredictability going forward in the final third is fine. Doing so in your defensive third, is not. That doesn't make him a poor player, it just means at times he will be sublime, at others he may cost you goals and games. And you want the balance to be the former. Maddison is steadier than that. I also haven't ever got the impression or feeling that Maddison is 'arrogant', at least not in the same way that players like Bellamy have been. But he is a safer player in the sense that his decision making does seem to be better. Yes, he is in a better team at Leicester, but it was largely the same when he played for us. That's one of the things that made him good. Whilst it may be harsh to say they are a world apart in quality etc, I fear that Buendia could end up being more like Hoolahan. And I mean that in the sense that Hoolahan was incredibly overlooked by the premier league teams. He rarely had serious interest in him from that direction, bar one summer with Lambert and Villa. The main reason given was his lack of goal scoring threat. Maddison has that. He is a good set piece taker, both in terms of direct free kicks and corners etc. Buendia was the main set piece taker for us in the premier league when he played. I've said it before, Buendia could be a huge, huge player and get a big move if he could just be a bit more consistent, score a little more regularly (which he looks like he could be doing) and just fine tune that decision making and become a little cooler. First yellow was harsh, 2nd wasn't. When you are already on a yellow you keep a cool head, make better decisions. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
First Wazzock 902 Posted November 27, 2020 On 26/11/2020 at 20:45, paul moy said: No intent but clearly reckless play. Following the flight of the ball and trying to take it down is never reckless, unless you are trying to clatter an opponent at the same time - which he clearly wasn't. As Jim Royle would say 'Reckless my @rse' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hank shoots Skyler 2,094 Posted November 27, 2020 4 hours ago, chicken said: Maddison Vs Buendia... On paper there is hardly a dispute. Assists and goals Maddison is streaks ahead. I have said before, I really dislike the "chances" stat. All it means is you passed to someone that shot. Doesn't mean it was a good chance, or you even intended for them to shoot from your pass. People then mistakenly qualify this as assists that were not converted... It's a bit like the pass completion stat. I think Sorenson got the most passes and the best pass completion stat in one of our recent games, yet I think it would be fair to say most of his passes were to other defenders. I think Gibson may have had the most touches so that sort of highlights how stats can be both good and bad. Context is needed before you can rely on them too heavily. Buendia can be fun to watch because of that 'unpredictable' element, though I prefer not to call it unpredictable, he knows what he is doing, it isn't by accident it is the talent he has, that's what it is to be a creative player. But where I think Maddison is ahead of him is decision making and calmness. As often as Buendia can be brilliant, he can be the opposite. He can frustrate. He can take on four players at once and never look like beating them, he can make a poor pass choice that breaks down our play before we have really held onto the ball in the opponents half. He can ignore a pass and take on a player to lose it. That's the flip side to the creative bit. You don't mind him doing it in the opponents half, but in your own half? In the premier league I think he had a very unwanted stat of being one of the worst culprits for giving the ball away. And it was a hard balance. Do you play him for the chances he might create or do you not play him for the chances he may give away? Unpredictability going forward in the final third is fine. Doing so in your defensive third, is not. That doesn't make him a poor player, it just means at times he will be sublime, at others he may cost you goals and games. And you want the balance to be the former. Maddison is steadier than that. I also haven't ever got the impression or feeling that Maddison is 'arrogant', at least not in the same way that players like Bellamy have been. But he is a safer player in the sense that his decision making does seem to be better. Yes, he is in a better team at Leicester, but it was largely the same when he played for us. That's one of the things that made him good. Whilst it may be harsh to say they are a world apart in quality etc, I fear that Buendia could end up being more like Hoolahan. And I mean that in the sense that Hoolahan was incredibly overlooked by the premier league teams. He rarely had serious interest in him from that direction, bar one summer with Lambert and Villa. The main reason given was his lack of goal scoring threat. Maddison has that. He is a good set piece taker, both in terms of direct free kicks and corners etc. Buendia was the main set piece taker for us in the premier league when he played. I've said it before, Buendia could be a huge, huge player and get a big move if he could just be a bit more consistent, score a little more regularly (which he looks like he could be doing) and just fine tune that decision making and become a little cooler. First yellow was harsh, 2nd wasn't. When you are already on a yellow you keep a cool head, make better decisions. Good post chicken. You highlight a flaw in the key passing stat. I would agree with your comments to an extent, but I still don't really see how it takes away from Buendia too much. The stat may be flawed yes, but it also applies the same way for every other player in the champs too and Buendia still comes out literally off the scale. It doesn't really matter if a proportion of the passes are simple ones, the same can surely be said for his competitors! I also described Buendia as unpredictable, but that definitely doesn't mean I don't think he knows what he's doing. I just can't personally always predict what he is going to do when I watch him! And perhaps 'arrogance' was not the right word for Maddison. I was trying to say that he played with certainty and would nearly always make the right decision in possession. I think maybe 'efficient' would be a better description. I get the Hoolahan comparison but no chance is Buendia staying out of the premier league for any longer than this season. We just have to hope that we make it there with him. Agree with the rest of what you say though, Buendia does still show a flaw in trying to overplay it in the wrong spot sometimes - think as recently as the Stoke game he tried a nutmeg about 25 yards out from our goal versus Stoke when we were under pressure! And not to mention his overeagerness which has led to a few suspensions now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hank shoots Skyler 2,094 Posted November 27, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, chicken said: On paper there is hardly a dispute. Assists and goals Maddison is streaks ahead. I missed this part, to clarify: Maddison Played Goals Assists Champs season 17/18 44 14 8 Prem 18/19 36 7 7 Prem 19/20 31 6 3 Prem 20/21 8 1 2 Buendia P G A Champs season 18/19 38 8 12 Prem season 19/20 36 1 7 Champs season 20/21 10 2 5 Streaks ahead on goals? Yes definitely. Streaks ahead on assists? Not at all, Buendia shades it for me given he still managed 7 assists in a team that performed so terribly last season! Edited November 27, 2020 by Hank shoots Skyler Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul moy 235 Posted November 28, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, First Wazzock said: Following the flight of the ball and trying to take it down is never reckless, unless you are trying to clatter an opponent at the same time - which he clearly wasn't. As Jim Royle would say 'Reckless my @rse' Lifting foot with studs to head level is clearly always reckless if you do not know who is there. Edited November 28, 2020 by paul moy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
