Wrong forward sent out on loan

[crispeduk 282]

Not claiming any expertise, but stuck in the house this lunchtime, I did a bit of reading around the subject of football work permits. I’m sure there’s plenty of stuff in the small print which I’ve missed or just glazed over at, but would like to share what I understand is the state of play with Seb Soto. Apologies to all, not least club and player, if I’ve got this all wrong or have missed out essential information, or even if this ground has all been properly covered elsewhere. If anyone wants to put me straight that would be welcome.

Mr Soto didn’t accept Chile’s call-up last month but is reported to be still weighing up between Chile or the USA who he has represented in the age groups and whose head coach Gregg Berhalter wants to keep him on board. USA play Wales in a Swansea friendly on November 12 so you wonder if that may be a key date from our point of view as time plays a big part if we are to see him in yellow and green next season. He turns 21 next July 28 after which time, or whenever the season qualifying date falls, he will need to have played a percentage of competitive internationals in the previous two years to apply for a work permit, instead of the one year as is the case if aged under 21. Whichever, that percentage is on a sliding scale according to FIFA world rankings, for Chile, ranked 9th, it would be 30% of competitive matches, for the USA, ranked 25th, it would be 60%. Sounds a lot, but 60% of say eight internationals, is five caps.

USA face Honduras at a centralised US location in June 2021, with the winners playing Mexico or Costa Rica in the Concacaf Nations League semis and final, postponed through Covid from June this year. That timing makes space in the calendar for Concacaf Nations World Cup 2022 Qualifiers to begin in March 2021 – suspect the format for that will be subject to the same pressures to shorten it for virus reasons as other competitions have been this year. So it is possible that only a handful of caps might suffice for a permit application on grounds of being internationally established at the highest level, with any minimum number requirement possibly being flexible in these extraordinary times.

So apart from any other work permit requirements the caps criteria would seem achievable if Mr Soto keeps banging in the goals and steps up. If so, provided they are satisfied of a significant contribution to our sport, the FA’s endorsement of an application to the Home Office can be made. If the FA say no the player can appeal but there’s a lot of difficult hoops to jump through at the FA’s Exceptions Panel and my brain hurts just skim reading about those and possible implications of Brexit legal adjustments in all this, but hopefully neither will be necessary or get in the way.

Judging by the video clips though it will all be worth the effort and the wait, with two years said to be left on his contract at the start of next season. Anyone know if there’s an option for a further year on that?

Edited October 25, 2020 by crispeduk
Correcting date of next World Cup from 2020 to 2022

[ged in the onion bag 878]

2 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Lots of exclamation marks and even more patronising, perhaps I could learn from your good self why I’m wrong. 

Classic bit of reverse psychology there!   I was honestly expecting you to go quietly from the thread or give us your articulated justification of your statement.    Most people on here don’t justify (usually can’t) and often believe rubbish, e.g Cantwell has downed tools.

You said ‘ Sinani or Soto although unknown quantities already look more advanced than Idah. Time will tell obviously but so far on evidence we may have missed a trick.’   
 

How can I tell you you are wrong.  I didn’t of course, just asked you a question.    I did believe you would struggle to justify your statement and of course you’ve obliged.   
 

But in my opinion, you can not compare Idah’s performances in the Championship, especially when he’s not had any kind of run in the team yet against any another player who is playing in a significantly inferior league and in a different team dynamic, against different tactics.    For example, we are currently playing against packed defences  where it’s tough to find any space.   Even then Idah is doing fine, putting himself about and causing problems.    
 

In short, your not wrong (you’re definitely not right), it’s just a silly statement to make that criticises a player without foundation.    

[Nuff Said 5,281]

If/when we go up again, the debate will start all over again. As we so painfully experienced last season, there is a big leap from Championship to Premier League. Bringing him in to a few Championship games is one thing, playing in a PL match is another thing entirely, whether the opposition is Burnley or Liverpool. Maybe a year on loan if we do go up?

[ged in the onion bag 878]

1 hour ago, Nuff Said said:

If/when we go up again, the debate will start all over again. As we so painfully experienced last season, there is a big leap from Championship to Premier League. Bringing him in to a few Championship games is one thing, playing in a PL match is another thing entirely, whether the opposition is Burnley or Liverpool. Maybe a year on loan if we do go up?

But we don’t know, he has enough pace, strength and goal instincts to make the highest levels.     Look how Cantwell took to the EPL when so many expected him to go on loan....  he could be a revelation this season, injuries might make him our main striker and he looks to have more quality than Hugill.    
 

Suppose the exciting side of the plan is that we have so much potential talent and be good to see who comes through.    Similarly, in terms of developing a team that can step up, would like to see Martin as the main back up to Cantwell and Buendia as the other options had their chance last time and blew it!    
From Charlton reports Famewo has been immense, so expect him back January and he could well be the Godfrey replacement before the seasons out.    

[Nuff Said 5,281]

1 hour ago, ged in the onion bag said:

But we don’t know, he has enough pace, strength and goal instincts to make the highest levels.     Look how Cantwell took to the EPL when so many expected him to go on loan....  he could be a revelation this season, injuries might make him our main striker and he looks to have more quality than Hugill.   

True, although possibly rather premature to say he has more quality than Hugill.

1 hour ago, ged in the onion bag said:

 From Charlton reports Famewo has been immense, so expect him back January and he could well be the Godfrey replacement before the seasons out.    

I’d not heard that (not that I’ve looked), where have you seen their view?

[ged in the onion bag 878]

37 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

True, although possibly rather premature to say he has more quality than Hugill.

I’d not heard that (not that I’ve looked), where have you seen their view?

Re the quality, his control and the technique he shows when getting shots off primarily....he seems sharper than Hugill.

Re Famewo; Bowyers comments, a match report and a forum thread I read.... plus they’ve had 4 clean sheets on the bounce.

Edited October 25, 2020 by ged in the onion bag

[Nuff Said 5,281]

6 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Re the quality, his control and the technique he shows when getting shots off primarily....he seems sharper than Hugill.

Re Famewo; Bowyers comments, a match report and a forum thread I read.... plus they’ve had 4 clean sheets on the bounce.

That’s encouraging if we need reinforcements come January.

Damned if we do, damned if we don’t though. If we bring him back and he doesn’t play, he won’t develop. If we leave him at Charlton and someone gets a season ending injury a week after the window “slams shut”, it looks like a mistake.

[ged in the onion bag 878]

5 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

That’s encouraging if we need reinforcements come January.

Damned if we do, damned if we don’t though. If we bring him back and he doesn’t play, he won’t develop. If we leave him at Charlton and someone gets a season ending injury a week after the window “slams shut”, it looks like a mistake.

We may have no option but to bring him back but it’s good we’ve got the options now and that he has more experience.   I would put him in straight away.   He’s quick and strong and worth a punt, especially as he could learn a lot very quickly alongside Hanley or Gibson.   

[ZLF 285]

crisp has it right about Soto - it is just  a matter of time before he gets a cap and but for some pandemic would almost certainly have appeared for the US by now.

We just need a little patience. 

  

[Midlands Yellow 4,135]

19 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Classic bit of reverse psychology there!   I was honestly expecting you to go quietly from the thread or give us your articulated justification of your statement.    Most people on here don’t justify (usually can’t) and often believe rubbish, e.g Cantwell has downed tools.

You said ‘ Sinani or Soto although unknown quantities already look more advanced than Idah. Time will tell obviously but so far on evidence we may have missed a trick.’   
 

How can I tell you you are wrong.  I didn’t of course, just asked you a question.    I did believe you would struggle to justify your statement and of course you’ve obliged.   
 

But in my opinion, you can not compare Idah’s performances in the Championship, especially when he’s not had any kind of run in the team yet against any another player who is playing in a significantly inferior league and in a different team dynamic, against different tactics.    For example, we are currently playing against packed defences  where it’s tough to find any space.   Even then Idah is doing fine, putting himself about and causing problems.    
 

In short, your not wrong (you’re definitely not right), it’s just a silly statement to make that criticises a player without foundation.    

I was definitely wrong regarding Soto and dopey too🙂. Sinani mind could have been an interesting option though within the squad. He would be an unknown quantity with no experience in English football unlike Idah. 

International goal scorers are a rare breed and even though it’s only Luxembourg these type of teams have improved massively over the last 2 decades. Idah will hopefully come good this season but hindsight is a wonderful thing so I guess we wait to see. 
 

[crispeduk 282]

4 hours ago, ZLF said:

crisp has it right about Soto - it is just  a matter of time before he gets a cap and but for some pandemic would almost certainly have appeared for the US by now.

We just need a little patience. 

  

Cheers ZLF.

As it happens I was wrong about World rankings. Chile are actually 17th, meaning caps in 45% of competitive matches would be the qualifying yardstick. USA are 22nd, the qualifying percentage being unchanged at 60%. 

You know what? I'd much rather be going to football instead of having time for all this guff. TV watching is not the same, but even so, what was I thinking doing that on a Sunday lunchtime? 😂

[ged in the onion bag 878]

1 hour ago, Midlands Yellow said:

I was definitely wrong regarding Soto and dopey too🙂. Sinani mind could have been an interesting option though within the squad. He would be an unknown quantity with no experience in English football unlike Idah. 

International goal scorers are a rare breed and even though it’s only Luxembourg these type of teams have improved massively over the last 2 decades. Idah will hopefully come good this season but hindsight is a wonderful thing so I guess we wait to see. 
 

Idah deserved his chance, has done enough for that in his few opportunities and he's a very different option to Sinani.   

Ideal world, we play one of front (one of Pukki, Idah or Hugill) and three behind him ( three of Cantwell, Buendia (both definite starters for me), Hernandez, Platcheta, Martin, Dowell, Vrancic, McLean roughly in that order at present.    So if we kept Sinani around, the question is when would he get his chance.    He's a similar player to Cantwell, Buendia and Martin than the others and we may need back up in that area.   So hopefully he can be recalled in January.    But it seems he wasn't going to play given this amount of options so getting some game time at a level higher than he was used to makes sense.    

No one knew Dowell would get injured long-term but we have many options and on top of that Pukki and Idah can play deeper.    

[Duncan Edwards 2,274]

On 25/10/2020 at 12:27, Thirsty Lizard said:

I would have thought that you would know by now that Delia doesn't 'trouser' money - she puts it in her handbag. 😉  

Hambag*

[Nuff Said 5,281]

50 minutes ago, Duncan Edwards said:

Hambag*

Is that where she keeps her hambition?

[Midlands Yellow 4,135]

11 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Is that where she keeps her hambition?

A small bag then. 

[wcorkcanary 4,355]

15 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

A small bag then. 

She's  a  lady in her seventies, someone should help her carry that heavy bag. Hambition is very dense ... denser than gold ,so the size of her Hambag  belies  the quantity of her hambition. Like gold the price of Hambition  fluctuates but generally   in an upward trend. Delia's bag was designed  by the makers of the Tardis. 

Glad to have cleared all that up, once and for all.