Lack of penalties for, plenty against

[TCCANARY 263]

[quote] I watch football for the same, but what''s wrong with discussing a bit of analysis, see where we''ve been good, see where we''ve been bad, think about other players we could bring inm see how the stats match up to what we''ve seen in reality etc. It is a discussion board after all. Isn''t that what non match days are for? I completely agree though, if we are bottom of every stat going but above 18th in the league come the end of the season, I won''t really care.[/quote]

I don''t recall seeing any stats from Grefstad that show where we''ve been good, he seems to only focus on the bad ones.

 

 

[grefstad 0]

[quote user="TCCANARY"]

I don''t recall seeing any stats from Grefstad that show where we''ve been good, he seems to only focus on the bad ones.

 

 

[/quote]

The reason is obvious, Norwich are near the bottom of most stats at Whoscored.com.

Instead of moaning about how terrible this is for you and Norwich, take some time to see the stats for yourself, and make your own mind up.

Or perhaps it is better with the head-in-the-sand approach? Best not to know?

[Mr Jenkins 0]

Villa seem to do quite well on stats. Glad we''re not cut adrift at the bottom of the table though.

[Lessingham Canary 99]

Stats are all about interpretation, interpret them wrong and they are costly, have to be careful not to be blinded by stats, the important ones are, imo; Games played, Wins, Lost, Draws, goals for, goals against, goal difference +/-, points accumulated, can work out most things from where constant improvement is needed.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

[quote user="Mr Jenkins"]Villa seem to do quite well on stats. Glad we''re not cut adrift at the bottom of the table though.[/quote]

http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/24

they really don''t

[TCCANARY 263]

Aerials won - 11th

Posession - 15th (Leicester 18th)

Discipline - 13th (Arsenal 20th)

Tackles per game - 2nd

Fouls per game - 9th

Offside per game - 8th

Dribbles - 15th (Southampton 20th)

Least fouled team (got to be good for avoiding injuries)

More shots on target per game than Stoke.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

Villa have the most yellow cards in the league, so I dunno where that discipline stat is derived is from.

As for the "tackles per game" surely it''s a good thing if you make tackles. They don''t obviously make them well enough.

Saying that though, Villa have probably not been as bad as their meagre points total says. I''d call into question their mentality and fight. We''ve started to be able to pick up points in games where we haven''t been at our best through sheer determination and keeping our heads up when the going has got tough. That Everton game for instance, probably the most one sided football match i''ve seen this season 1st half but we went in only 1-0 down and scrapped for a point. Villa faced with similar situations have wilted.

[morty 0]

So stats alone say Villa aren''t that bad.Well, thats interesting....

[Tetteys Jig 830]

[quote user="morty"]So stats alone say Villa aren''t that bad.Well, thats interesting....[/quote]

Say it then, your point is that you don''t think Martin Olsson is as bad as the stats say and you think he is an effective member of the team. I''ve said I agree with that but think we are far better with Brady there based both on stats and from what i''ve seen of him live and on TV this season at full back.

There''s some water to the "Olsson plays harder teams" arguement, but I don''t think it''s a coincidence that we''ve had our best results and in my view better performances with Brady at left back instead.

Anything else you wish to add?

[TCCANARY 263]

[quote user="TCCANARY"]Aerials won - 11th Posession - 15th (Leicester 18th) Discipline - 13th (Arsenal 20th) Tackles per game - 2nd Fouls per game - 9th Offside per game - 8th Dribbles - 15th (Southampton 20th) Least fouled team (got to be good for avoiding injuries) More shots on target per game than Stoke.[/quote]

 

That''s a couple of interesting replies because they''re not Villa''s stats they''re ours.

 

 

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,040]

Well that explains why the question I asked a while ago about our stats relative to those of Aston Villa was never answered, kind of holes the whole stats thing below the waterline. As i said before when asked about the "running around" stats the response from Alex Neil was along the lines of "perhaps we are more efficient than other teams", suggesting he was not particularly bothered. There is one set of stats that is tangible, and accurate at any given point in the season, it is called the league table..........

[Tetteys Jig 830]

[quote user="TCCANARY"]

[quote user="TCCANARY"]Aerials won - 11th Posession - 15th (Leicester 18th) Discipline - 13th (Arsenal 20th) Tackles per game - 2nd Fouls per game - 9th Offside per game - 8th Dribbles - 15th (Southampton 20th) Least fouled team (got to be good for avoiding injuries) More shots on target per game than Stoke.[/quote]

 

That''s a couple of interesting replies because they''re not Villa''s stats they''re ours.

 

 

[/quote]

Lol, fair enough, I only called you out on the discipline one as it didn''t seem right but the rest suggest we''re mid to lower table. I wonder where Villa are with these?

From what i''ve deduced, Villa are down there both because of poor mental strength in close games and the fact they are wasteful in front of goal with their few chances mainly.

The tackles per game one is one I think we do struggle with sometimes backing off players. I''d say that''s adapting to facing more skilful players that has done that as we see with the penalties we''ve conceded over the years.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

[quote user="Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB"]Well that explains why the question I asked a while ago about our stats relative to those of Aston Villa was never answered, kind of holes the whole stats thing below the waterline. As i said before when asked about the "running around" stats the response from Alex Neil was along the lines of "perhaps we are more efficient than other teams", suggesting he was not particularly bothered. There is one set of stats that is tangible, and accurate at any given point in the season, it is called the league table..........[/quote]

I think you''re mainly making it a black and white "stats don''t matter at all" issue when it''s a grey area. Yes some stats you don''t have to worry about as they are a result of tactics played etc. but some, like pass accuracy if you are trying to play possession football etc. do matter.

For example, I''d say that Bradley Johnson is no longer with us mainly because of his unreliable passing in a league we can''t afford to give the ball away as cheaply in.

There are a lot of telling stats that as the games go on, the cream will rise to the top in the long run. It''s not obviously the be all and end all but we might as well shut down our whole performance analysis department if stats didn''t matter.

[TCCANARY 263]

 

Why do you think that we struggle with tackles per game when the stats say we are the second best?

 

 

[Mr Jenkins 0]

Using stats to try and call people out as Happy Clappers or any other term that Gref wishes to use really is scraping the barrel.

The only stat I am really interested in is the League table, that''s not open to interpretation or spin, discuss stats all you want but please don''t use them as a means to bash other posters by stating or implying they are " happy clappers" . That''s far from the truth and also insulting.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

We make the second most tackles... We are ranked second on amount of tackles, not on quality.

As we''ve seen particularly in first halves of many games, we''ve sat back and soaked up a lot of pressure. It''s something we''ve massively got good at recently.

As a result of not having much possession and territory, we''ve let teams sit around our final third but have become much tougher to break down in recent weeks. Before that, we were still doing the same tactic but getting picked off easier.

Having Tettey back to form has been a big helping hand.

[grefstad 0]

R	Team	DribbledPast	TotalAttemptedTackles	Rating
1	Leicester	10.9	33.6	7.01
2	Sunderland	11.2	32.1	6.69
3	Liverpool	9.4	32.1	6.83
4	Chelsea	10.1	31.2	6.81
5	Newcastle United	10.3	31	6.68
6	Manchester City	12	30.5	6.99
7	Arsenal	10.5	30	7.08
8	Watford	9.4	29.8	6.85
9	Stoke	10.7	29.8	6.80
10	West Ham	9.6	29.6	6.92
11	Manchester United	10.1	29.5	6.82
12	Tottenham	7.8	29	7.00
13	Bournemouth	10.2	28.9	6.73
14	Everton	9.3	28.4	6.93
15	Crystal Palace	9.7	27.8	6.85
16	Southampton	8	26.7	6.83
17	Aston Villa	8.1	26.4	6.72
18	West Bromwich Albion	9.7	26.1	6.74
19	Norwich	9	25.4	6.67
20	Swansea	9.3	24.7	6.69

[grefstad 0]

R	Team	Total	Rating
1	Leicester	22.2	7.01
2	Watford	19.8	6.85
3	Aston Villa	19.4	6.72
4	Arsenal	19	7.08
5	Tottenham	18.4	7.00
6	West Bromwich Albion	18.1	6.74
7	Southampton	17.6	6.83
8	West Ham	17.1	6.92
9	Newcastle United	16.5	6.68
10	Crystal Palace	16.3	6.85
11	Swansea	16.2	6.69
12	Bournemouth	16	6.73
13	Manchester United	15.3	6.82
14	Stoke	15.3	6.80
15	Sunderland	15.3	6.69
16	Manchester City	15.1	6.99
17	Chelsea	14.3	6.81
18	Liverpool	14	6.83
19	Everton	12.9	6.93
20	Norwich	11.9	6.67

[grefstad 0]

The last post was for Interceptions made. Norwich bottom...

[grefstad 0]

[quote user="Mr Jenkins"]Using stats to try and call people out as Happy Clappers or any other term that Gref wishes to use really is scraping the barrel.

The only stat I am really interested in is the League table, that''s not open to interpretation or spin, discuss stats all you want but please don''t use them as a means to bash other posters by stating or implying they are " happy clappers" . That''s far from the truth and also insulting.[/quote]

its getting late, Jenkins. Go back to farting in the couch with Mrs Jenkins, while we check the stats...

[Buh 0]

Referees attitude towards us the major cause of it

There attitude is "it''s only Norwich who cares if i get it wrong"

Look at how Clattenburg Reffed the Swansea game (especially the last 5 minutes, never seen a tight win celebrated and then the referee booed off the pitch before!) and whoever the idiot was for the first game who overruled ketones perfectly legitimate goal

They just view is with utter contempt. It''s a disgrace frankly.

For a while I''ve maintained we should be trialling getting referees from abroad. The domestic stock is nowhere near sufficient so we need to outsource it.

No more refs pally with the well known players and mugging us off because we haven''t been in the prem forever!

[grefstad 0]

Some more defensive stats. This is sorted on Tackles made per game. Joint 2nd worst...

 

R	Team	Shots pg	Tackles pg	Interceptions pg	Fouls pg	Offsides pg	Rating
1	Leicester	13.2	22.7	22.2	10.9	1.2	7.01
2	Liverpool	9.9	22.7	14	11.6	2.7	6.83
3	Tottenham	11.3	21.2	18.4	12.9	2.2	7.00
4	Chelsea	11.8	21.1	14.3	11.3	1.9	6.81
5	Sunderland	15.8	20.9	15.3	11.1	2	6.69
6	Newcastle United	16.7	20.7	16.5	10.4	1.7	6.68
7	Watford	12.4	20.4	19.8	11.7	1.2	6.85
8	West Ham	15.7	20.1	17.1	10	1.8	6.92
9	Arsenal	11.4	19.5	19	8.7	2.2	7.08
10	Manchester United	9	19.4	15.3	12.4	1.8	6.82
11	Stoke	15.3	19.2	15.3	10.5	2.9	6.80
12	Everton	13.8	19.1	12.9	8.7	1.6	6.93
13	Southampton	12	18.7	17.6	10.4	2.7	6.83
14	Bournemouth	10.9	18.7	16	9.7	2	6.73
15	Manchester City	9	18.6	15.1	10.4	1.5	6.99
16	Aston Villa	12.9	18.3	19.4	12.2	1.3	6.72
17	Crystal Palace	15.3	18.1	16.3	12.7	2.3	6.85
18	Norwich	13.1	16.4	11.9	11	2.2	6.67
19	West Bromwich Albion	14.1	16.4	18.1	10.1	1.6	6.74
20	Swansea	12.6	15.4	16.2	9.9	2.7	6.69

[TCCANARY 263]

 

1	Arsenal	15.6	202	56.4	85.0	14.8	7.08
2	West Ham	13.7	274	47.0	76.5	18.2	6.92
3	Everton	13.3	292	52.1	82.3	12.4	6.93
4	Stoke	10.8	294	49.1	78.5	15.1	6.80
5	Chelsea	13.9	313	54.7	81.6	15.4	6.81
6	Bournemouth	12.4	311	52.0	80.2	16.7	6.73
7	Norwich	11.2	322	46.5	75.9	15.8	6.67
8	Swansea	11.6	320	52.7	82.2	14.7	6.69
9	Leicester	13.5	330	43.8	69.8	18.2	7.01
10	Manchester United	11.6	330	57.3	83.9	13.4	6.82
11	Crystal Palace	12.3	331	46.7	75.4	15.8	6.85
12	Southampton	14.5	343	50.7	78.4	19.3	6.83
13	Manchester City	17.4	360	55.7	83.7	14.8	6.99
14	Watford	12.1	372	45.8	72.1	15.8	6.85
15	Newcastle United	9.3	383	45.9	76.5	13.1	6.68
16	Sunderland	10.9	392	42.9	73.0	18.7	6.69
17	Liverpool	16.2	391	54.7	79.4	18.6	6.83
18	West Bromwich Albion	9.8	403	42.4	71.7	18.1	6.74
19	Aston Villa	10.7	430	49.8	78.7	20	6.72
20	Tottenham	15.3	430	54.1	80.1	14.1	7.00

[TCCANARY 263]

 

Team	Shots pg	Discipline	Possession%	PassSuccess%	AerialsWon	Rating
1	Manchester United	11.6	330	57.3	83.9	13.4	6.82
2	Arsenal	15.6	202	56.4	85.0	14.8	7.08
3	Manchester City	17.4	360	55.7	83.7	14.8	6.99
4	Chelsea	13.9	313	54.7	81.6	15.4	6.81
5	Liverpool	16.2	391	54.7	79.4	18.6	6.83
6	Tottenham	15.3	430	54.1	80.1	14.1	7.00
7	Swansea	11.6	320	52.7	82.2	14.7	6.69
8	Everton	13.3	292	52.1	82.3	12.4	6.93
9	Bournemouth	12.4	311	52.0	80.2	16.7	6.73
10	Southampton	14.5	343	50.7	78.4	19.3	6.83
11	Aston Villa	10.7	430	49.8	78.7	20	6.72
12	Stoke	10.8	294	49.1	78.5	15.1	6.80
13	West Ham	13.7	274	47.0	76.5	18.2	6.92
14	Crystal Palace	12.3	331	46.7	75.4	15.8	6.85
15	Norwich	11.2	322	46.5	75.9	15.8	6.67
16	Newcastle United	9.3	383	45.9	76.5	13.1	6.68
17	Watford	12.1	372	45.8	72.1	15.8	6.85
18	Leicester	13.5	330	43.8	69.8	18.2	7.01
19	Sunderland	10.9	392	42.9	73.0	18.7	6.69
20	West Bromwich Albion	9.8	403	42.4	71.7	18.1	6.74

[morty 0]

Stats really do bore the tits off me.

[grefstad 0]

[quote user="Buh"]Referees attitude towards us the major cause of it

There attitude is "it''s only Norwich who cares if i get it wrong"

Look at how Clattenburg Reffed the Swansea game (especially the last 5 minutes, never seen a tight win celebrated and then the referee booed off the pitch before!) and whoever the idiot was for the first game who overruled ketones perfectly legitimate goal

They just view is with utter contempt. It''s a disgrace frankly.

For a while I''ve maintained we should be trialling getting referees from abroad. The domestic stock is nowhere near sufficient so we need to outsource it.

No more refs pally with the well known players and mugging us off because we haven''t been in the prem forever![/quote]

 

I''m tempted to agree to this, somewhat. I believe we suffer a bit from being a "small" club, playing with the big boys. But we also suffer for not having players that are "suited" to getting penalties (quick players breaking into the box frequently).

We do have players that are likely to concede penalties though (slow defenders, poor positioning, clumsy attempts at tackling, standing off until you have to tackle, often in the area, etc.

I also think our players lack a bit of "streetwiseness", in the meaning "creating" situations where things may be given for us. Holty was a master of this. 

[TCCANARY 263]

Team	Shots pg	Discipline	Possession%	PassSuccess%	AerialsWon	Rating
1	Norwich	11.2	322	46.5	75.9	15.8	6.67
2	Newcastle United	9.3	383	45.9	76.5	13.1	6.68
3	Sunderland	10.9	392	42.9	73.0	18.7	6.69
4	Swansea	11.6	320	52.7	82.2	14.7	6.69
5	Aston Villa	10.7	430	49.8	78.7	20	6.72
6	Bournemouth	12.4	311	52.0	80.2	16.7	6.73
7	West Bromwich Albion	9.8	403	42.4	71.7	18.1	6.74
8	Stoke	10.8	294	49.1	78.5	15.1	6.80
9	Chelsea	13.9	313	54.7	81.6	15.4	6.81
10	Manchester United	11.6	330	57.3	83.9	13.4	6.82
11	Liverpool	16.2	391	54.7	79.4	18.6	6.83
12	Southampton	14.5	343	50.7	78.4	19.3	6.83
13	Watford	12.1	372	45.8	72.1	15.8	6.85
14	Crystal Palace	12.3	331	46.7	75.4	15.8	6.85
15	West Ham	13.7	274	47.0	76.5	18.2	6.92
16	Everton	13.3	292	52.1	82.3	12.4	6.93
17	Manchester City	17.4	360	55.7	83.7	14.8	6.99
18	Tottenham	15.3	430	54.1	80.1	14.1	7.00
19	Leicester	13.5	330	43.8	69.8	18.2	7.01
20	Arsenal	15.6	202	56.4	85.0	14.8	7.08

[ZLF 274]

I think its Newcastle who are on the longest current run without a penalty.

Must be a letter N conspiracy

[grefstad 0]

[quote user="morty"]Stats really do bore the tits off me.

[/quote]

 

Yes, must be awful to see people actually posting something which may interest others, instead of the constant squibble and derailing you normally put up in these forums. Also, probably boring when facts show that claims made, although previusly harassed by the infamous Morty actually hold some water. Must be awful.

[TCCANARY 263]

eam	Shots pg	Shots OT pg	Dribbles pg	Fouled pg	Rating
1	Everton	13.3	4.6	12.6	11.3	6.93
2	Arsenal	15.6	5.7	12.6	11.7	7.08
3	Aston Villa	10.7	3.3	11.9	9.7	6.72
4	Chelsea	13.9	4.1	11.3	13.5	6.81
5	Bournemouth	12.4	4	11.2	10.8	6.73
6	Leicester	13.5	4.8	10.5	8.8	7.01
7	Crystal Palace	12.3	4.4	10.2	11.2	6.85
8	Manchester City	17.4	6.5	10.1	10.3	6.99
9	Liverpool	16.2	4.7	10	8.9	6.83
10	Stoke	10.8	3.4	10	10	6.80
11	Tottenham	15.3	6.2	9.6	10.5	7.00
12	West Ham	13.7	4.8	9.3	11.8	6.92
13	Newcastle United	9.3	3.3	9.2	10.9	6.68
14	Manchester United	11.6	3.8	9	10	6.82
15	Norwich	11.2	3.6	8.3	7.3	6.67
16	Watford	12.1	3.8	8.3	10.1	6.85
17	Sunderland	10.9	3.5	8.1	10.2	6.69
18	Swansea	11.6	3.7	8.1	12.5	6.69
19	West Bromwich Albion	9.8	3.2	7.7	10	6.74
20	Southampton	14.5	4.7	7.1	9.4	6.83