What mistakes?

[westcoastcanary 173]

Russ Martin is getting slated again by his critics on here for "mistakes" he is supposed to have made against Liverpool yesterday, including his pass to Dorrans which preceded the Liverpool goal. The other "mistake" is apparently his attempted pass to Whittaker, which was cut out and led to an attempt on goal, thwarted by Ruddy.

What is it about these two passes which make people so confidently assert that they were "mistakes". IMO both were legitimate passes to attempt, especially in the context of AN''s call for the team to be brave and play out from the back rather than concede possession cheaply by simply lumping the ball forward, a call he re-iterated very clearly in a post-match interview.

[djc 0]

Sloppiness, indecision or carelessness seem to be the main reason to us conceding goals. We are really yet to concede a "worldy" goal this season.

i would rather the team occassionally concede possession cheaply, than concede goals cheaply (which can ultimately prove to be costly rather than cheap!!)

 

[westcoastcanary 173]

IMO Martin''s two passes were neither sloppy, indecisive or careless.

[Salopian 1]

The pass to Dorrans was unfortunate, in that the midfielder was moving away, which may have been difficult to predict and have an element of bad luck.

The other, to Whittaker, was under-hit, and of greater concern to me. The Liverpool winger had the beating of Whittaker virtually all game, and you could argue that Martin would have done better to "hoof" it, even if it came back fairly soon.

In the Liverpool goal Ings was on-side when the ball was passed but had gained an important yard by the time it arrived. I don''t know whether it was Martin''s ball to deal with, or Whittaker''s, but we ultimately went one down because neither of our players was quick enough in thought or action.

[Buh 0]

Fact is a lot of our sloppy goals Haven''t been martins specific fault as an individual but poor defensive play as a unit.

As captain and centre back the buck stops with him and fans love a scapegoat.

This "we should play him up front instead of the back herrrrherrrrherrr" stuff annoys me. It''s a pretty young season and we are scoring goals all over the park. Not being reliant on a dominant goal scorer is a positive surely? Keeps opposition on their toes?

I don''t know, just think there''s a general lack of respect for him but it''s not as if it''s the first time I''ve seen it with a player. Some love a whipping boy.

[morty 0]

Takes the heat off Whittaker for a while though[;)]

[Branston Pickle 3,706]

Have to say I was expecting an absolute howler for their goal, but IMO as much fault lies with Dorrans whose pass put Martin under pressure, he then didn''t collect the return but made no attempt to redeem the situation. It happens - the fact is that the vast majority of goals in the PL come from mistakes, as at all levels.

[Bury Yellow 2]

Totally agree with all points Branston.

What chance does Martin have on this board? I gave up when Holt, incredibly, was regularly panned on here.

[ron obvious 1,517]

There was a classic situation with Tettey when Coutinho had a free shot against Ruddy. The commentator on MOTD asked what on Earth Tettey thought he was doing, why didn''t he move towards Coutinho to try & close him down.

To me it was obvious that Tettey was not going to get close enough to Coutinho in time, & he was covering Ings, who would have had a completely open goal (Ruddy being occupied with Coutinho on the other side of the goal) if he had slipped the ball through to him instead of shooting.

We all see the game differently.

[BroadstairsR 2,216]

"Totally agree with all points Branston.

What chance does Martin have on this board? I gave up when Holt, incredibly, was regularly panned on here."

And I think I''m giving up reading the Russell Martin threads BY as they are becoming tedious with the same points being made over and over again, all met by seemingly immobile obstacles.

For some reason the anti-Martin brigade are more excessive in their criticism than those, like me, fully in favour of the player.

To the dissenters, can I remind them that all of Chris Hughton, Neil Adams, Alex Neal, Gordon Strachan and, to a lesser extent Paul Lambert, have or do utilise Martin in the central defensive position.

That''s some array of footballing knowledge, experience and responsibility for the layman to pitch his opinion against.

Neither is it as if those worthies have not had an ample supply of alternatives to select from, quite a few of which have been more than capable, IMO.

[Alejandra 0]

[quote user="ron obvious"]There was a classic situation with Tettey when Coutinho had a free shot against Ruddy. The commentator on MOTD asked what on Earth Tettey thought he was doing, why didn''t he move towards Coutinho to try & close him down.

To me it was obvious that Tettey was not going to get close enough to Coutinho in time, & he was covering Ings, who would have had a completely open goal (Ruddy being occupied with Coutinho on the other side of the goal) if he had slipped the ball through to him instead of shooting.

We all see the game differently.[/quote]

I thought Tettey made the right cool too! otherwise like you say, a simple tap in from Ings

[Alejandra 0]

right call*

[westcoastcanary 173]

As I see it, Russ is simply doing what you would expect AN''s on-field captain to do, lead by example in implementing the manager''s instructions regarding general style of play and approach to each game.

AN has said, and said again after yesterday''s game, that he wants his players to be "brave". He wants them to play with tempo, to zip the ball about the pitch, put the opposition on the back foot. That requires quicker decision-making, quicker execution, quicker speed of thought, improved ball skills. He doesn''t want them so scared of something not coming off that they never dare to do what playing better, more effective football requires of them. The only way to improve is to do it, and accept that it isn''t always going to come off.

People on here are constantly praising Wes Hoolahan for trying the ambitious ball, the unexpected, imaginative pass. They accept the failures along with the successes. Why get on the backs of other players when they try to be similarly "brave", e.g. by playing out from the back rather than hoofing the ball forward? Especially when it''s what the manager wants from them. I have never heard AN criticise Martin (or Whittaker for that matter) for the multitude of "errors" and shortcomings some on here claim to detect.

[Molly Windley 76]

Since the team personnel changes and selling BJ to Derby RM`s options for using the ball have lessened. He no longer has the option of the high crossfield ball to BJ on the left wing which was often his outball and with only CJ up front with any height he has to pass it short and to feet which is a riskier pass.The lack of options for our back four to get the ball forward is something that Im sure AN is working on.

[djc 0]

[quote user="westcoastcanary"]IMO Martin''s two passes were neither sloppy, indecisive or careless.[/quote]

i didnt mention Martin in my previous post, i was referring to our team generally.

[westcoastcanary 0]

[quote user="djc"][quote user="westcoastcanary"]IMO Martin''s two passes were neither sloppy, indecisive or careless.[/quote]

i didnt mention Martin in my previous post, i was referring to our team generally.[/quote]True, my apologies. As regards your general point though, I am inclined to disagree. IMO our players are very seldom "sloppy, indecisive or careless" and few if any of the goals we concede can really be attributed to those failings.