militantcanary

The wanker on page 6 Barclay something certaintly was and a lot of the posts here are implying in fairly implicit terms that the no of fans trying to get through and their demeaneour was a contributing factor. I don''t know how much weight you are putting on it. Peanuts has in an excellent post debunked all this nonsense. It was not an accident and so what if there was a different culture then. The pathetic comments of people who said it is now a duty of care which didn''t exist then. Throughtout the whole history of civilised society the aim should be to ensure there are basic conditions in place that don''t result in deaths. I am sorry that is obviously too radical a concept for some of the posters on here. The 1st job of Police as they saw it was to control fans who were a total incovnenience at best and the enemy at worst. Yes enemy was the correct word, the mentality was to lump them in with other "troublemakers" such as the Miners they waged a brutal and corrupt war against on behalf of the Thatcher Government. I don''t think Duckenfield should necessarily be convicted of Manslaughter but there are appropriate charges or convictions that would fit the circumstances and must result in a Prison sentence. For Conspriracy to pervert there should be at least 3 years inside as well. This force is dirty to the core like the West Midlands Crime Squad for example. And no liverpool fans did not have a bad reputation at all save for Heysel, the no of arrests at European matches were virtually zero up to 1985. Heysel was a terrible event as well of course. So lets lay off the fans and concentrate on the villians of the piece, the Police, Ambulance Service, the Coroner, local Tory MP, the Sun, and the Tory Government who brushed it all away

Whilst not blaming fans, in this terrible case where people lost their lives, due to too many fans being in the stand, I don''t understand how more fans being there than had tickets For what I think is the first time ever, I agree with Morty. Fans turning up ticketless happened all the time back then - Liverpool fans amongst the worst culprits. I refuse to believe that this wasn''t a contributing factor. I also struggle to blame the police for what happened on the day as well. Some will recall 70''s and 80''s football violence and pitch invasions, again with Liverpool fans amongst the worst culprits. In a time before CCTV cameras and other technology, I can only imagine the pressure the police were under to identify it as a deadly situation rather than football hooliganism. It just irritates me that this now all goes down as the responsibility of the police and people under huge pressure are now likely to face prosecution for something that wouldn''t have happened if fans without tickets had stayed away. Always the victims. You really are a nasty excuse for a human being aren''t you The utter lies from the Police have been totally exposed. They were the fucking victims you low life they were treated in the most appalling fashion possible, first at the mercy of total and utter incompetence that was in flagrant disregard of basic safety. The authorities then flounderedd in the most most reprehensible way preventing lives being saved. Then even more appallingly they immediately set an alternative narrative in place that there had been drinking, pilfering and obstruction. All this was utter lies. I hate you the fact you are a fellow Norwich fan, I hate the fact you are a fellow Football fan as well. Utter shame on you.

So the Stadium was a death trap The fans were allocated to the wrong end The Police Commander had a clear line of sight and Ordered a gate to be opened and not a tunnel I am simplying here. It was not a one off there had been a no of instances of dangerous overcrowding which had not resulted in a fatal occurance The Police knew its was a massive problem but made no effort to help the dying but formed a line in the middle of the pitch One ambulance got onto the pitch due to massive incompetence It was an accident, was it? They didn''t cover their back, they perverted the course of fucking justice Words fail me, I could express myself but I won''t

Incidentally can anyone shed some light on this for me please: From the 2016/17 season, relegated clubs will receive 55 per cent of the equal share of broadcast revenue paid to Premier League clubs in the first year after relegation, 45 per cent the following year and 20 per cent in year three. Clubs relegated after a single season will receive 55 per cent and 45 per cent over two seasons with the third payment eliminated entirely. Burnley were relegated this year after one season in the Premier League Burnley were relegated this year after one season in the Premier League Shortly after the Premier League announced the deal for domestic rights, it revealed that 20 per cent of that would go to grass-roots football, solidarity payments to lower-league clubs, participation and education and disadvantaged groups. And it has now revealed its plans for solidarity payments which are linked to a mechanism to broadcast deals. Championship clubs currently receive £2.3m a season with League One clubs getting £360,000 a season and third-tier outfits being handed £240,000. Under the new arrangements, the solidarity payments will be based on a percentage of a third-year parachute payment with Championship sides getting 30 per cent, League One 4.5 per cent and League Two three per cent. QPR also dropped back down after a single season in the Premier League QPR also dropped back down after a single season in the Premier League With the final value of the broadcast deal unknown, exact figures cannot yet be put on the payments from 2016/17 but if the new system was now in place, Championship clubs would get around £3m, League One around £450,000 and League Two £300,000. So do I have this right if the worst comes to the worst we get 55 % of about 115 M the equal share next year approx and 45% of 115M the year after?? 60M for relegation?

]No, he didn''t "open the turnstiles". He ordered that a GATE be opened. Get your facts right before spouting off Sorry on reflection I think you are right but that does not alter the general thrust of what I am saying, it was a totally flawed and in fact criminal decision. The thing I find most shocking is the immediate attempt at a cover up at the top of South Yorks Police and to attempt to smear the victims by ordering an alcohol test of their blood, to perpetrate the myth of drunken fans causing it all. The difference between gross negligence originally and I am sorry to say, evil after the event.

]Whilst not blaming fans, in this terrible case where people lost their lives, due to too many fans being in the stand, I don''t understand how more fans being there than had tickets be seen as a factor I am sure this will come out. Some of it may be to do with the police decision to open a gate at one end which didn''t distribute fans equally into different areas, something the Police Officer in charge had claimed was due to fans "forcing the gate open" before admitting 25 years after the event that it was his decision. Like I said, I am not blaming fans.But if you have a stand that holds, say, 5000 fans, and 7000 turn up, then that has to be a factor. I think the difference between what you are saying and the verdict is that the verdict is a legal ruling not a ruling on practical factors. Of course it didn''t help there was too many fans outside but legally this should have been forseen as this was normal in the 80s for a big match and had I think happened in a no of previous years at the venue. Also the Liverpool fans were put in the smaller area despite having a larger no of fans which I clearly recall before the match was a contraversal decision on its own. Duckenfield opened the turnstiles but did not close the tunnel which caused a difficult manageable situation to go out of control.

This is probably going to sound a bit sacrilegious but here we go... I confess to being a bit of a lurker on the TWTD forum. Often to laugh at the misfortune of the binners but also because they discuss an interesting range of topics both football and non football. You still get the same weird personal vendettas, people slagging each other off and all people generally being idiots but it means it is a vibrant and varied discussion board for people to talk about all topics. The moderation seems to be quite light-touch and threads are only pulled if they get personal. It is in my mind a pretty well run forum Not today its not, I strongly object to having a thread entitled Justice for the 96 pulled, my thread protesting about it being pulled and then it being denied it was pulled at all. Very 1984

Provided we return to the PL in the next two seasons, is it naive to suggest that relegation this season is not necessarily a bad thing? We get to: trim the squad Bring young players through Sign new players within our wage structure Play more games Win more games Benefit from parachute payments Possibly another Wembley outing Win a title, or promotion Isnt that a bit complacent, we could also do a Notts Forest, Derby, Scum, Cardiff etc etc and stagnate horribly. The PL is not a pleasant league for all sorts of reasons but we could look back in 5 years time and think the last 2 games have ruined our club. This will also be the strongest Championship for a little bit, just saying...

So Hillsborough is non Football is it?? I thought it was at a match played in 1989 between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest. Its an emotive but very important subject and yes it touches on politics as well. The political element was introduced by the Government of the day, and the attitudes of its supporters The Sun and the South Yorkshire Police

Let me try again, I find it ironic that a thread about coverups should be supressed Today shows the dignity and courage shown by some parties today, if you struggle long to bring the truth to light and don''t give up then you can sometimes overcome. I am in awe of the families who have struggled for justice for so long against a background of Police, tabloid and Establishment lies. This is a victory for Football as Everton put it today, a small victory for fans who have been treated rudely or casually or much much worse hearded and treated like cattle with a callous disregard. Victory for the 96

I agree there is a tendency for fans not to engage brains when following a chant, and we shouldn''t have needed a legal ruling to have made this judgement Where is the original thread gone Moderators, please reinstate immediately you have brought this forum into disrepute (especially with the pathetic thread having a go against the junior Doctors left in)

Unless it''s a blatant error you don''t tend to notice / remember the decisions that go in your favour whereas every iffy decision against feels like a crime! The ref could / should have blown up for handball before Olsson slammed home against Newcastle the other week ... but no one remembers that. Refs give what they see. There is no conscious bias or agenda. You have got to be joking right?? There is no agenda vs Norwich this season you say but the evidence is so massively stacked up that I can only think you have an eyesight problem. I can think of 8 matches where we have been done by the referee this season, blatant gob smacking bias. At least 4 of those defied belief. The PL is dirty and corrupt end of. We accept these blatant wrongs too easily Neil is way too too empirical and generous in his assessment and I would say that if he kicked up as he should do the referee may think again. Our failures at both end of the pitch have got us into trouble the corrupt * who call themselves referees will probably send us down We will go down because we have one of the worst three squads. It might make you feel better to blame the refs for our situation, fine if that''s what you need, but blaming someone else will only disguise the real problem. Not at all, there have been myriad failings which have left us in trouble, lack of activity in the Summer, inept coaching etc. What will make the small ultimate difference and it will be small is the referees. Can you possibly counter this self evidently true comment? If we had say 4 or 5 extra points Palace home and away, Chelsea at home, yesterday we would be safe? No?

[quote user="Feedthewolf"][quote user="Ricky Spanish"]I''m looking for an explanation for their complete bias against us in every single game.[/quote]There is no explanation for that, because it doesn''t exist. Your emotions are completely clouding your judgement.[/quote] I am looking for an explanation that his judgement is clouded. I would say that in 5 matches we have been unlucky with the decisions and in at least another 6 we have been flat out fucked by the referee. Name me a single match we have been lucky with the decisions. Perhaps you are one of the jolly people who think all is right with the world and corruption doesn''t exist?

Unless it''s a blatant error you don''t tend to notice / remember the decisions that go in your favour whereas every iffy decision against feels like a crime! The ref could / should have blown up for handball before Olsson slammed home against Newcastle the other week ... but no one remembers that. Refs give what they see. There is no conscious bias or agenda. You have got to be joking right?? There is no agenda vs Norwich this season you say but the evidence is so massively stacked up that I can only think you have an eyesight problem. I can think of 8 matches where we have been done by the referee this season, blatant gob smacking bias. At least 4 of those defied belief. The PL is dirty and corrupt end of. We accept these blatant wrongs too easily Neil is way too too empirical and generous in his assessment and I would say that if he kicked up as he should do the referee may think again. Our failures at both end of the pitch have got us into trouble the corrupt cunts who call themselves referees will probably send us down

]I''m confused by your post Militancanary? in your first sentence you open with "I would be careful of accusing referees of being corrupt" by the end of your post you finish with.. "The PL is a cespit of corruption if we go down almost happier to be away from it. Anyway who doesn''t think its corrupt is totally deluded" That was a quote from Purple Canary He is a deal more benevolent than me apart from Taylor and a couple of others they are bent as a nine bob note

I wouild be careful of accusing referees of being corrupt. I doubt they are. But it wouldn''t surprise me if there is a kind of semi-conscious bias at work, given the absurd statistics of not one away penalty in more than five seasons in the Premier League, and precious few at home. One former Premier League referee (it may have been Graham Poll, and apologies if not) admitted - after he had retired, of course - that he was wary of given decisions against Man Utd, home or away, because he feared what Ferguson would say. That was a factor he didn''t consider with other clubs with less frightening managers.With us I suspect we also lack that fear factor. Referees are not intimidated either by whoever the manager is (pretty much by definition they will not be a giant of the game) or the crowd. They are not going to get rubbished in the media the next, because it is only Norwich City. What by common consent was a clear penalty we should have got against Crystal Palace got very little coverage in the national coverage I saw and none of the outrage, including calls for the referee to be disciplined, that will surround a similar mistake that hurts a big club That''s at least 8 totally biased performances vs us this season Chelsea at home Spurs at home C Palace at home and today spring straight to mind The PL is a cespit of corruption if we go down almost happier to be away from it. Anyway who doesn''t think its corrupt is totally deluded

I don''t think its that muted Everyone knows its bent, Boris Johnson the loveable flop haired quasi fascist is the Tory Mayor and the laughably titled Baroness Brady is a Tory peer Coincidence I think not

Surely the board have seen enough. This is worse that Peter Grants reign!!! Surely we have to at least try to stay up???? I think Alex Neil is good in some ways but the main trouble may be the sub standard level of coaches at the club. McAvoy and Holt have no experience of coaching English football let alone the PL and has any team got an Assistant Manager with a profile as low as ours? I would give him until October 1 and then apply the axe if things aren''t looking up all things being equal but if results continue like they are he will surely be gone soon

So we have not won since Jan 1 and we will win 5 in a row That is likely as All referees expressing a love for Norwich and promptly awarding us loads of penalties All pundits saying that Norwich are great and saying we are actual total dickheads, I mean you Merson and you Mills The Tories will reverse their attacks on the poor and put the top rate of tax up to 80% Everyone to hug each other in the street and pronounce world peace day. In other words i will have whatever you are smoking, I can see us getting 11 points in more optimistic moments

Paddy Davvit interviewed AN just now @paddyjdavitt: #ncfc AN: ''I spoke to ref. He said ''is it my fault you lost.'' He was being sarcastic obv. Fucking hell is this true We as a Club should make sure that this piece of scum never referees for us again I am expecting an official complaint

]Awful decision making based on his own prejudices. We not robbed though How on earth do you make that one out 2nd and 3rd goals were a disgrace, stonewall Penalty to us not given, possible wrongly allowed disallowed goal, bias all evening. They deserved to win but that''s hardly the fucking point is it?

That result was dirty no other word for it If it was Italy there would be knowing winks and a big pile of cash waiting You cunt Friend

Clearly militantcanary wants people to walk on water and piss gold through their cock end.... Alex Neil has signed Klose and inherited a championship standard squad. The key changes Alex Neil made today and throughout his time here have made a huge difference and he is taking this club forward incredibly well. Maybe you should change your name to militantseagull, go support Brighton and hang out the back of Chris Haughton? At least get his name right. We have made massive mistakes today and we got punished in the Championship we could have got away with it. I don''t want people to walk on water but some people couldn''t pass water. I just hope we are not mentally scared off this, it was a crazy decision from a Manager who I largely have confidence in but is by no means perfect as today''s shocker shows

Indeed, who did say Bennett was injured? Not me, I said he was unavailable. Klose has been in the country well under a week and barely trained with us - I can imagine the comments now had he played and looked rusty. Far better to play as we did, without the benefit of hindsight That''s the whole point its not hindsight is it, it was a disaster waiting to happen and what a fucking surprise it did happen. You cannot defend the indefensible so best not to try. Major questions marks over the Manager now for me, he has to pick the players up after likely massive mental scarring. When was the last time Martin looked good as a CB quote the game please

Who said Bennett was injured, that''s news to me No mention on CC at all. Kllose is a bit rusty not injured for Christ''s sake Disgusting Neil