The Judge

Its an interesting one Wiz. Bearing in mind the great Wortington, Munby and even Delia herself stated that one of the key reasons for our poor start last season (not mentioning the poor middle and end) was that players didn''t settle / gel you would have thought they would want to get players in asap to ensure this didn''t happen again - if they don''t then obviously they haven''t learnt from their mistakes. It is also obvious from the past 2 seasons transfer activity that we leave things too late to get deals done and its a dangerous strategy as you could end up with just the dross. I personally feel that we need to be brave this season - more than any other, for a number of reasons. Its obvious where the key weaknesses in the team are; right side midfield, right back, centre mid, big centre forward - lets go and get players for these positions. I accept that by going in early you may have to pay abit more for them, but at least you are getting the player you want/need, rather than ending up with players that can "do a job" (sound familiar eh Nige!) in those positions rather than excel. Secondly whatever side of the divide you sit, there is extreme unrest within the NCFC supporter base, the board need to show us they mean business this season, anything less and i''m sure they won''t be shown the patience they were last season.  Finally the board and the manager know we need to hit the ground firing on all cylinders this season and get off to a fantastic start, not only for our promotion chances, but for the supporters and atmosphere in the ground aswell. So lack of activity in the market is puzzling along with not appointing a coach who may be able to attract people hear with their connections. There is no point buying someone for the sake of it and if the targets don''t want to come thats another problem -thats why i think we will have to pay over the odds to get the players we want - but too me (and before I get slated - I know I don''t hold the purse strings) - its got to happen - if it doesn''t then you may well be right Wiz....  

My local isn''t big enough for 20 odd thousand...... I do indeed welcome change - but like i said its apparent to most that foley was part of the problem but not the largest part. Who picks the team, who decides the tactics, who has decisions on players in & players out, who gets the praise when things go well - therefore who should carry the can when things go badly ?? I agree with your statement that it is not necessary to change the manager to get the team to play well - but i would argue that the attitude and tactics employed by the manager, along with the type of player he wants to bring here, his obsession with work rate over ability, his desire to play players out of position etc etc -  does have to change if we are to play better - you obviously think he will change but sorry myself and most other people don''t   

I wish him well - I agree with you totally EM that Foley was the scapegoat for the terrible past 2 seasons - the majority of us know where the real problems lie. I hope we play Ipswich at home really early in the season - becasue i think you would find alot of people would chant his name as a display of anger at the ineptitute of our board

Unsurprisingly enough - it came from the mouth of our own Delia.

[quote user="blahblahblah"] [quote]So you believe everything you read eh - what on earth do you expect them to say - they aren''t going to blame themselves for anything are they ? Would you stick your head in an oven if they told you to, would you think Adolf Hitler was actually a nice guy if they told you he was - unbelievable ! [/quote] Judge, Do you feel that your opinion is more important than those of the Chief Executive and manager of the team ? I feel it highly unlikely that either Nigel or Neil would ask me to stick my head in the oven. Do you have a problem with people who can read ?  Or is it people who make reference to articles in newspapers you have a problem with ?   Absolutely no problem with people that can read, or indeed refer to articles in the paper. However the issue I have is people taking it for granted that what they are reading is absolutely correct. OK i accept that Worthington & Doncaster should know the true goings on behind the scenes at Carrow road - good and bad - but do you expect them to tell you everything - of course you don''t. Likewise they are unlikely to critise themselves publicly for their failures this season - they will come up with reasons (excuses) and expect people to believe them. If you bother to talk to the vast majority of of people who have been to the games this season you will get a vastly different story on the performance of the players, the tactics etc than the tripe that is rolled out by Worthington is his post match comments. Yet it would seem you would rather believe 1 person rather than 25,000 - strange decision.            [/quote]

BlahBlahBlah. You wrote "If you read Neil Doncasters'' or Nigel Worthingtons columns in the edp and evening news respectively, these are the reasons given for last seasons poor performance." So you believe everything you read eh - what on earth do you expect them to say - they aren''t going to blame themselves for anything are they ? Would you stick your head in an oven if they told you to, would you think Adolf Hitler was actually a nice guy if they told you he was - unbelievable ! - If you are basing your support for Worthington based on what they say in the paper and in radio interviews (after Preston away - or any other game for that matter..) no wonder you do. Do you actually go to games yourself ??  

Well Ipswich have taken the step that our totally incompetent board are unwilling to take - and you have to say that Royle has actually done a much better job than Worthington with the resources at his disposal - yet we seem to want to stick with Nige. I put this question to the board (and all of you posters) If Worthington is such a good manager and worth holding on to despite an incredibly poor season both in terms of finishing position and performances - why is no other club trying to secure his services ? I see Dowie is being linked with some of the Premier vacancies at the moment - why not our Nige. There is plenty of speculation about the numberous vacancies both in the Premier & Championships - strange that Nige isn''t linked with any of them isn''t it.. Perhaps its because they all realise he is actually not very good - shame our board can''t see it isn''t it.  

I''ve no idea either CJF - and I put this precise question to Mr Doncaster (obviously no reply). Sitting as I do near the dug outs in the Thorpe area I can see what he does during matches - absolutely nothing !! Good to see our man Nige is stating in the Evening News that there are no other planned changes in the coaching team.......and he is going through the shortlist.....fills me with real optimism for the new season.    

From sources quite close to the club and some of the players - Foley was actually the best of the Famous Four (and i''m including Keith Webb here). Alot of the players actually had alot of respect for him - more than they did for the others.(apparrently Craig Bellamy still rings him up for advise - which says alot about the man) So unless some of the others go aswell - expect to see NO changes to the style of football we play - morale may even drop further with the players. Lets hope this is just the start - surely Livermore must go aswell - just actually what does he do....as for Keith Webb (who gets on well with Worthington) he has no coaching qualifications or footballing background and he was becoming more and more involved with decision making within the team as the season went on and see where that got us. All I can hope is the new head coach is allowed to bring his own team in with him - here''s praying.      

Alot of the people that are in favour of sticking with Worthington at this point in time are saying give him 10 games next season and if we aren''t in the top 6 then think the club should replace him. Can you of that opinion please tell me how you think this is a good thing ?? - what replacement of the quality we would be looking for are we going to get at that stage of the season ? (unless we have to spend all our available transfer kitty on compensation we would have to pay to club we got him from). It is also very likely that any new manager would need time to adjust to his new role and get the player playing his style of football - meaning next season (one of the most critical in the medium term future of our club with the remaining paracute payments) would be a write off aswell. So please could you explain your logic - the only thing I can think you are hoping for/believe is that Worthington can turn it around - if so can you please explain based on what we have seen this season and last what makes you feel he can do it ? and PLEASE don''t come out with he''s done it before rubbish.. sorry things move on, things change - just because he has done it before doesn''t mean he can do it again  

Fair enough Chicken - you say luck doesn''t come in to it. OK with that in mind - what is your view on all the games we have lost this season then ?? - you obviously can''t think we were unlucky - which is spot on - we weren''t - We were poor....so what is the reason for those performances then ? - Please enlighten me......

I would be interested in views of those who believe Worthington shoud stay in charge - or are you all in the "hope" things will get better camp ?? This is the response I got in a letter from Neil Doncaster - they "hoped" things would get better. An extremely dangerous way to run a business I would suggest... 

Although I have to say I have wanted Worthington out - and still think it would be the best thing for this club to move forwards i do unfortunately feel that he will be here at the start of next season. Even the most ardent Worthington out supporter must realise this now - he has had an extremely lucky string of results at home that have defused the opportunity for the majority (and yes it is a majority) to voice their opinions. However here is a question for those who feel Worthington should stay and be given another chance - should the whole training and background staff stay the same aswell ?? Whether you have wanted him to stay or not no-one can say we have, or indeed are currently, playing good football - and the quality in the squad is extremely low. Someone phoned in on canary call on saturday stating we play much better with 5 in mid field and should adopt that approach next season - well I would make the statement back to him - we only play better with 5 in mid field because those midfielders we pick when we play 4-4-2 just aren''t good enough - FACT. Something is wrong at our club on the playing side - different people have opinions to what this is - but which ever side of the fence you sit - to hope by leaving everything as it is and things will magically get better next season would be madness to the extreme - some needs to change - whether it be a new coach or a Director of Football I don''t know - but somthing has to change. It would also appease alot of disguntled fans aswell. But do you think the board will do it ?? - thats the question... One final point - people talk about giving Worthington 10/15 games next season - to me this is even more of a dangerous strategy/plan than getting rid of him now - if we are mid table at this point and the board can no-longer defend he position - who the hell are you going to get in as a manager at that stage of the season - one who is already out of work - or one you are going to have to tempt away from there existing club - paying huge compensation for..   

djb - no i certainly haven''t forgotten in fact i actually remember it quite well and i can honestly say that the "football" we are "playing" now is worse than when those 2 were in charge. The main difference between then and now is that we have spend fortunes on rubbish players, where as before we didn''t pay much for them - and who bought those players ?? - no need to answer that one.. My 2 year old son could do a better job than that idiot at the moment - he has made NCFC a national embaressment - just read the sunday papers !! - hopefully Delia & Michael read them too (assuming they pull their heads from the sand for 10mins...)    

Its got to be.... We''re only making plans for Nigel - XTC. Sung by Delia and Michael on lead vocals, Roger Munby bass guitar and Neil Domcaster on Drum (oh and Skipper on the triangle !)  

Zipper, having calmed down from reading Munbys article and writing my post i have been able to reflect on the responses it recieved. I respect your posts as you always back your comments with reason and rationale unlike others that shall remain nameless. However the supporters groups trying to oust Worthingthon by saying nothing to this type of article are playing right into the boards hands. Working in marketing as I do I know exactly what they are trying to do by going on this PR offensive. They know that alot of people form their opinions by reading what they see in papers, on the tv and on the radio, especially those who are currently sitting on the fence, or don''t go to the games regularly - i''m not belittling these people - it is just a fact. Therefore if they can swamp the media with positive articles on worthington people will believe everything is OK - which the majority of people who go to the games on a regular basis clearly know is untrue by the standard of football we are playing and have played for too long now. The board know they have primary access to the media and they are using it, which in a way means they are concerned about the unrest - but supporter groups need to ensure they get there voices heard to if they don''t want to be continuely tagged with "minority"

Are you going to take what Munby said in todays paper on the chin ??    Basically he is sticking 2 fingers up at you... In essence he is saying whatever the results and performances for the rest of the season WOrthington will be charge next season. He has listened to you and totally ignored you. Munbys article has made me so angry i am ashamed to say I want us to lose on saturday and badly - as I feel this will be the touchpaper people have been looking for to protect and loudly. Calling a truce ??? - might have been the sensible thing to do up until Munby trotted out this tripe - seems this is the only thing they may take notice of. I''d be interested in how you intend to take things forward now

Shardy - just to take you up on a couple of points. I was indeed a season holder in the hamilton, rioch era and I disagree with you that the football this season is better than then - we have been shockingly bad this season - and what makes it worse is the players Worthington has at his disposal. Their is no way you can compare the sides that Hamilton/Rioch had and the one Worthington has !! What position do you think we would be in next season if we got rid of Worthington after 10-12 games ? what type of manager would we attract then - I would suggest that it would only be one that is already out of work - and you aren''t out of work unless its for a reason (i.e. you are rubbish!). To me the board should be saying to Worthington (and please lets pray they are!) unless we finish in the top 8 with vastly improved performances on the pitch giving us all some indication of what we could be in for next year (which you must admit at this point in time with the current set up pretty depressing) then you are out. We then have the summer to try to lure a good calibre manager from another team. Finally whilst I agree that he derserves respect for what he did in the past (and note I say past) to deserve my respect now means he needs to respect me/us as fans, which I personally believe is one of his biggest misgivings, he doesn''t respect the fans or obviously some of the players views. If he respected us he would at least acknowledge the fact that we have been very poor this season rather than trot out the same pre and post match drivel week in week out regardless of performances, why can''t he say it as it is (like Steve Bruce, Alan Curbishley, Steve Mclaren, Alan Pardew etc etc- do after a poor performance), why does he wait until the middle of february before he call them in for extra training on their day off (post Palace) ?? We watch the same games as he does - how can he see it so differently - too me this is lack of respect. It is obvious he is not prepared to walk away - therefore i''m sorry he is losing alot of the respect he has built up over the past 5/6 years.

Statements like these are why the vast majority of fans are extremely unhappy with Worthington at this point in time - whether you are in favour of him going or staying - the man just shows that he is happy with very average/poor football - and the Norwich board are buying it !! "Very good results away from home" - OK i''ll grant you the Sheffield Utd result was a "very" good one. Other than that we have only won 4 other times away in the league (out of 18 matches) the other wins were against the mighty Brighton, Crewe, Leicester and Ipswich (which in the circumstances you could also say was a good performance). Apart from that i''d argue we''ve been absolutely terrible away from home - defeats at places such as Millwall, Derby, QPR, Stoke, draws at Hull, Plymouth and Coventy, and no shows at Palace and Luton. How on earth can anyone connected with Norwich City football club say that we have had "some" very good results - whilst in the same breath ignoring the fact the rest of the performances have been unacceptable. This is I would conclude is the reason why we are in the mess we are in - they actually do believe they are doing OK and as long as Nigel keeps telling Delia, Michael, Roger, etc this he will remain in charge...  

Delia and Michael in their statement said words to the effect of the last 40 clubs who have been relegated only 9 have bounced back the next season. Can one of you stato''s out there please advise; 1) how many of the 40 at least made the play off positions the next season and 2) how many had the same manager at the end of the season following relegation. Just interested...  

I like a number of you include in my season ticket renewal a letter to Mr Munby stating my desire to see Worthington removed. Much to my surprise (and I have to say I am extremely impressed) I recieved quite a lengthy reply from Mr Doncaster. The most worrying thing in his reply (I won''t repeat it word for word) was that other than he/the board didn''t agree with me, was that they "hoped" things would get better once the injuries were out of the way and "Nigel" could pick a settled side. HOPED !!! - now too me this is an incredible statement to make. OK we can be certain of nothing in this world but to "hope" things will get better is a very risky thing to do indeed. Yes we would be taking a calculated gamble if we appointed a new manager but from what we have seen this season it is less of a gamble than keeping with what we have. The worst case scenario in my opinion is that they decide to keep with Worthington until the start of next season (which unfortunately is looking more and more likely) then worthington continue to roll out poor performances during August & september (which to be honest is pretty likely) - who the heck are we going to get in as manager at that stage of the season ???? - we will have missed out on the opportunity to lure someone away during the close season - and will be feeding around on scraps of managers out of work or alternatively have to pay another club huge compensation to get their manager here. He must go at the end of the season - and hopefully the games we have coming up will give the fans the opportunity to voice their opinions loud and clear !! 

Rocky, You obviously strongly believe in your opinion and you back it logically in a reasoned manner. However I''m afraid you are in the minority. Stating that only 500 turned up which shows the rest are the "silent majority" in support of keeping the status quo - is a very niave thing to say & its the gamble the board are taking aswell. Well I didn''t attend the meeting because I had to stay in a look after my son, and I''m sure you will find that there are 1000''s of others who have equally valid reasons for not attending - some may probably think they didn''t want to attend because they didn''t feel it would make any difference. I think as one other poster said we will never know the true numbers unless an "official" poll is undertaken but as you know this will never happen - and if it did it would make the board change their mind anyway ! I don''t claim to know 1000''s of supporters - but what I do know is that I know alot, who in turn know more etc - and I have not heard of one person who does not want a change. I don''t want to go over the old ground which has been debated time & time again on numerous posts - but just because worthington and he team brought success in the past doesn''t mean he will, or should be given the opportunity to do it again. Would you go and purchase a lottery ticket with the same numbers that won the jackpot last week ?? - ok their is a chance of them coming up again but its a hell of a big gamble. You need to look at the facts as they stand NOW. Rubbish performances, no team work, terrible morale, substandard players, no organisation - and the most worrying thing of all NO sign of it getting consistantly better. This is what you need to base you decisions on - not what has happened in past.

I''ve only just read Barry Skipper article - i bet he hadn''t written it now !! Some comments in there are really worrying, follwing yet another embarrasing no show by our team. It seems they are going to stick with good old Nige and the team aren''t a million miles off from becoming a force - absolute rubbish. What do these so called business men and women talk about in there board meetings - when are the prawn sandwiches turning up ?? Mr Skipper still believes it is a "small" minority that want a change - sorry Mr Skipper i can''t claim to know all 25,000 people that spend their hard earned cash to watch Norwich at Carrow Road, but I know alot of season ticket holders, who in turn know alot more, etc  - and no one knows of anyone who wants Worthington to stay. Delia - why the silence ?? you are doing yourself no favours by remaining quiet - especially after your very public outburst about the fans on the pitch last year. You people are the custodians of our club, you are the people in power, yet can you hear and see your supporters want action. ?? In politics they call it a dictatorship - tread carefully you are staring down the barrel of a revolution !! Despite the situation I have just sent off my season ticket renewal form (with a letter enclosed stating my feelings on the situation I must add) on the basis I hope I will have the opportunity to watch a management team build an exciting squad for next season, playing attractive football and securing at least a playoff place - because as Mr Skipper rightly stated in his piece that this is the last year of parachute payments so its going to have to be then or we would have to wait alot longer for success to return - So Barry, Delia & Co with your jobs on the line - do you trust Worthington and muppets with this cash ??  

I sit in the main stand near the dug outs and saw this incident. Worthington was basically F''ing and B''ing Hucks after he had made a run down the wing taking about 3 Derby players with him and they got the ball off him and he then didn''t run back to defend.  Basically to me this totally sums up the man - he hates creative players as they don''t work hard enough and it the reason why we play the dour style of football we do and why we defend too deep - if everybody is told to get back and defend where is the outlet ball from defence ? - well in Worthingtons book it the big hoof up field. Hucks has basically won the last 2 games for us on his own - he had made run after run down the wing on saturday, had just scored that fantastic goal, and then Worthington has a right go at him for not defending.. needless to say Hucks (rightly so) just laughed at him - so Worthington threw his teddy out of the pram and threw his water on the ground !!! - and who says he has the respect of the players ?? Rightly the vast majority of fans (myself included) who saw this incident underfolding basically couldn''t believe what we were seeing and gave Worthingthon a piece of our mind. Two wins against 2 very poor teams (although we did play better on saturday) is NOT a turning point - Worthington is a dead man walking and these 2 results are just a stay of execution.  

How many of you are absolutely fed up with hearing Worthington say this ? I''ve just read the article "wall of noise" on the site today and Worthington mentions we need to "work hard" about 6 times !!... too me if this is what he believes will bring us success he is going to be very dissappointed. Having heard this mentioned nearly every time since he has been manager - it is obviously this above anything else he believes will bring us success. It is also this quality that has seen him bring the type of players he has during his tenure. Although I conceed that a team does need to work hard to close down teams, make runs off the ball, chase back, move in to space etc. It is not this that will win you football games, its skill and the ability to do something with the ball when you have got it. Unfortunately Worthington doesn''t seem to like this type of creative player so all we are left with on the pitch is a group of players who are supposed to be able to "work hard". I would also attactually challenge him on the fact that our team does "work hard". I can recall watching numerous Premiership games this season, and one Chelsea game in particular, and their players, with all the undoubted skill and creativity they have worked much much harder than any Norwich team under Worthington ever has. I can accept our players are never going to be the quality of the Chelsea players, but there is nothing stopping them working as hard - if thats what you really want them to do. A few of our current players "work hard" but the majority don''t. You can''t say that Hughes, Henderson, Fleming, Doherty don''t work hard - and if you want people running around the pitch like headless chickens then fine - its what you do with the ball when you have it that is going to win you games and I would conclude that this is one of the primary reasons we are in the position we are now. I''m afraid that this is predominately the type of player we now have in our squad and until either the attitude of the manager to more creative players changes (unlikely) or the manager himself is changed we aren''t going to see too much different in terms of results.