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"Places too much value on training hard and being an honest pro, rather than ability." I can see where you''re coming from, but you have to bear in mind the context that he is working within... When I''m recruiting staff, I''d rather have someone I can rely on to do a job that a flashy git who might produce the goods now and then. Of course, if I have unlimited funds and can head-hunt the best people (as can José Mourinho) then I''ll get flashy performers who can produce week in week out. So look at it from Worthy''s point of view: for 500k you can buy solid performers who aren''t technically the best (otherwise they''d be worth 5m) e.g. Hughes or you can buy talent with dubious work ethic e.g. Rivers. Who will get you out of the Championship? So although I think you''re right, that is Worthy''s way, I wouldn''t want to say that was the limit of the man... just those are his tactics to get us promoted. And in that, you surely have to agree his record is that he knows what he''s doing. Do we want pretty football (like Ipswich) or promotion?

The problem these days, so it seems, is that nobody has any patience with managers. Look at Strachan at Celtic after 1 or 2 games. And Reading fans are now calling for Coppell''s head after they lost their opening game! One game into the season! I looked at the managers in the Championship. After Gradi and Warnock, Worthy is the third longest-serving by some distance. And Warnock... what has he achieved at Sheff U in the past 6 years? A lot of people criticise Worthy, but for his record he remains one of the best/better managers in the division. If your glass is half full you will focus on the losses and the things he hasn''t achieved, the relegation. If it''s half full you''ll focus on the wins, the successes, the promotion. Of course he makes wrong decisions sometimes, or at least, decisions which with hindsight could have been better. But equally, which other Championship manager would you rather have... and what''s his record like?

Coventry had better watch out. For the past 3 seasons the team we have played on the opening day of the season has gone on to get relegated. And our record on the opening day hasn''t been great - we did beat Grimsby on the opening day 3 years ago... but then didn''t make the playoffs! In our playoff year we lost 4-0 to Millwall on the opening day... in the promotion year we drew 2-2 with Bradford on the opening day after throwing away a 2 goal lead at the death. So, a poor opening day is almost as customary for Norwich as underestimating and going out to a lower league team in the first round of the cup!

You probably need to count Lee Marshall (did we really get 600k for him?!!) and Darel Russell, and to be fair, Gary Holt, who we got for 100k and then swapped several years later for MLJ. You can put whatever value you like on MLJ, but I wouldn''t say we made a loss on Holt. What''s even more interesting, and if anyone ever doubted the net effect Worthy has had on our club, check out the squad we had when he joined (http://www.ex-canaries.co.uk/years/0001.htm) and ask yourself whether the current squad is better or not! Also, look at the size of that squad compared to today''s (I think most clubs are the same on this score) and marvel at the strength in depth. How many of the released players have gone on to make it big?

[quote]Is it me or does Worthy get some sick satisfaction from winding up the supporters ? Last season it was Holt and it looks like this season it will be Fleming. We conceded 77 Goals last season by far t...[/quote] It would take a hell of a manager to wind up the fans by making all the wrong selections while winning the league at a canter at the same time! There''s a flaw in your argument - how can Fleming be responsible for 77 goals because he was ever present, and therefore crap, but Green, who ''proudly watched them go in'' isn''t responsible because he''s good. What you''re saying it, you don''t rate Fleming. Never mind that he was part of the best defence in this league last time he played in it. I suspect Worthy picks the best players available to him. If he didn''t he would be deliberately undermining his own position and deliberately masterminding our relegation in an attempt to get himself fired... I also though Shacks was good last season, but that was then... perhaps he''s not quite right in pre-season training yet, who knows?

Who''s he trying to convince that Wigan are a big, forward-thinking club... us or himself? But then, players always spount this kind of stuff when they sign... look at Marney''s quotes from earlier in the week... LOL.

So, 2m then, assuming it''s not more than about 30 appearances, since I expect Wigan will come down, and he will move on again when they do. (You only have to look at his agent: 10 moves in 16 years, to understand why). And I expect Worthy has a list of players he''d like to bring in, but it could take weeks for that to happen (remember Hux, Crouch and Harper arrived early Sep 2 years ago) or he may keep his powder dry until Jan and see how we''re doing. We do have 3 good midfielders already, and Charlton looked quality there against Inter!

Based on last season''s performances, Shackell should start ahead of Doherty. But it isn''t last season any more. Worthy assesses the players every day in training, and makes a decision based on fitness and form. Until we see the players in action in a competitive game, how can we judge... There is a strange hypocrisy here sometimes too: if Worthy persists with a player he''s labelled as having favoutites, un-droppable players, etc. If he goes with form, people ask why. So, if he starts with Doc and Flem tomorrow, I''ll assume they''ve impressed the most in pre-season. If they don''t perform then sure, let''s see who can do a better job. But otherwise, you could argue that because McVeigh scored loads of goals a couple of seasons back he should start tomorrow.

We don''t need another defender... we already have 8!

Um, do you think pre-season friendly performances against Col U are a meaningful predictor of performance over the season?

But we already have four: Fleming, Doherty, Shackell and Charlton... plus Louis-Jean has also played there. On the basis of Worthy''s aim of two players for each position, we''ve got it covered... hence I can''t see anyone else coming in there unless someone gets a big injury. Whether or not they''re good enough is another question entirely. Last season they were clearly not... but this is the Championship, not the Premiership, and Fleming has already proved he can do it at this level. I''d say the others could as well. Numbers-wise, if Francis goes then we need another CM, but other than that I think we''re up to the 20 outfield players mark aren''t we?

No, I won''t boo a Norwich player. I won''t cheer his name, I''ll stay silent, but I won''t boo. Because, I''ve never seen us turn in a top performance as a team when the crowd have had issues with one player. It always undermines the whole team, and the mood in the ground. Secondly, Francis himself has said nothing, absolutely nothing, about all of this. It''s mostly his agent trying to unsettle the player and talk up a move - he may succeed. Now I''m not saying Francis is blameless... he could have come out like Hucks did against his agent when he wasn''t representing him fully, so perhaps the smoke indicates there is fire...

I think all clubs'' squads at all levels have got smaller over the past few years - it''s the financial pressures: better to have fewer better quality players than lots of average ones. It''s only a few years ago when I think we had over 30 players, but many never got a game. One advantage is that Academy players get into the reserves sooner, so have a better chance to stake their claim for a first team place... not that we''ve been prolific at giving Academy players pro contracts in the last few years!

It occurred to me that with Ashton not playing because of an ongoing hamstring trouble that''s ''not quite right'', he''s far less likely to attract any bids. I know Worthy''s a cunning old fox, perhaps he''ll keep him out for a while yet, then bring him back towards the end of the transfer window...?

I see Agent Broughton has been at work for the cause: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/4712821.stm

Aye, they''ll need about 15 new players if they''re going to go up.

Poor old Pink ''un, they''ve only just caught up with the game being off on the homepage.... It''s good that they''re coming; I doubt they were going to be full strength anyway... it''s pre-season!

Now correct me if I''m wrong, but I thought a chap would be a masseur, and a lady a masseuse, oui? Apparently non, if you work for Ipswich... http://www.itfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/SeniorSquad/0,,10272,00.html Unless Roy is a lady....

Erm, you mean like this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/4710497.stm ?

Yep, most of the starting XI that beat Man U are still here, and the rest of the squad is definately looking stronger than last season. That is, if they all fulfil their promise, but here''s hoping. Can''t wait for the season to start now! Where are the moaners when you need them... 1st Wiz?

Jeez, as if telling the world how much money we have is going to help in negotiations for new players! Not! I''d love to haggle with you over buying something from me: first, tell me how much money you''ve got....

I''d hardly call Hucks a new player now. And Thorne this morning commented on how well the majority of last year''s team has been kept together. Worthy has a good record for picking up ''good apples'', so I would expect the new players to fit in well... plus they''ve got a whole pre-season go work together which hasn''t always been the case in previous years (think Edworthy, Jonson, etc.)

Was wondering about Thorne. Went and looked up various stats on soccerbase... goals per game ratio for some players: Thorne 0.37 Ashton 0.39 McKenzie 0.31 Iwan 0.31 Sven 0.25 Forster (by comparison) 0.31 All mostly at CCC level. So on that basis Thorne is a decent player, and certainly good enough as backup for McKenzie and Ashton while we try and get out of this division.

Things could be worse, we could be supporting Man U. I can hardly see Glazer in the stand with the fans at Fulham away next season, and it makes me glad to have Delia etc running our club for the fans, rather than some overseas investor running it to make a fat profit at the expense of everything else.And, of the the three relegated sides we''ve got to be in the best shape. Who knows what will happen to Soton now, and Palace will lose Johnson, without whom they''re a pretty poor side.No, in the grand scheme of things this isn''t the end of the world. We''ll regroup and come back stronger, hopefully next year will be another promotion season, and we all know how good that feels ;-)

Brum, I couldn''t get past your first few lines.... how is substituting a clearly injured player totally inept? (Safri, viz big ice bag on his leg afterwards!). What''s he supposed to do? Yes, we''ve gone down, but that was always on the cards from the start of the season and in the end we were only yay far from staying up, just one or two results where our luck had fallen differently and we''d be where West Brom are. Worthy is still the best manager we''ve had in years, and is still building the club up. If we get shot of some of the less good players and strengthen again this year, we''ll come back stronger.