Mark .Y.

So is the scientist unbiased or biased ?? I genuinely don't know but it isn't a matter of thinking which ever way you want...... research him and check him out and if he comes up and appears genuine then that is fine. Do you have a reason to think that this guy is doing as he is instructed, which is effectively what you imply ?

So people need to make their mind up, if doing sweet FA is what they advise, then accept it or stop griping about not following the science

So, will we follow the science ???

Don't tell Josh 😉

The thing is CM, there is absolutely no way that the Chinese system of dealing with this could be copied in a Western democracy, this is from the BBC : "Covid first appeared in China and up until a few weeks ago the government had managed to contain it to such a level that new cases were negligible and mainly coming from people arriving from abroad. What Beijing calls its "dynamic zero Covid" strategy combines mass vaccination with a regime of constant testing, nationwide monitoring of people's movements, temperature-taking and phone apps to prove you don't pose a threat. All of that amounts to hyper vigilance about any new outbreak - if and when one is spotted the reaction is severe. China has been wedded to this approach since the beginning because it's likely the leaders from Xi Jinping down consider anything less would cause illness and death on a scale that would be politically, economically and socially unacceptable. The ruling Communist Party took much of the credit for containing the virus early on - after it had spread beyond China's borders - and diverting from that would undermine its credibility. There is a broad acceptance of this approach, and the stringent restrictions it can bring, among many Chinese who for decades have not felt they can rely much on the public health system. So illness and the prospect of losing your job, let alone your life, are existentially daunting. Add to that the prestige attached to - safely - hosting another Olympic Games in a few weeks' time and the fast approaching Chinese New Year mass migration of millions across this country and there is clearly little doubt the government will remain committed to "zero Covid" for the foreseeable future." There is no way that could be enforced in any European country. And this : "People are swapping stuff with others in the same building, because they no longer have enough food to eat," a resident surnamed Wang told Radio Free Asia. The news outlet also reported that another man had wanted to trade a smartphone and tablet for rice. "Helpless citizens have arrived at the era of bartering - potatoes are exchanged for cotton swabs," one Weibo user said, while another described it as a "return to primitive society". Some were more optimistic though, and commented on how "touched" they were by their neighbours' kindness in sharing their supplies with them. Xi'an is at the epicentre of China's current Covid outbreak, and local authorities have enacted drastic measures which have attracted significant criticism online. In a recent incident, residents in the Mingde 8 Yingli housing compound in the south of the city were reportedly told just after midnight on 1 January that they had to leave their homes and go to quarantine facilities. Netizens were also shocked by an unverified post that went viral on Monday. A Xi'an resident said their father had died after he suffered a heart attack and was turned away from a hospital due to the city's Covid situation. The hospital has yet to respond." Of course, there is plenty to criticize about the UK's and other countries responses, but comparing any of us to China is patently ridiculous

Good choice of words........... "the London rags"............. I pay as much attention to it/them as I do to the Daily Express telling me how the EU is imploding. And the truth is, the article says it will be chaos on New Years Eve, doesn't suggest any other times. The scientific data clearly suggests that cases in the early risers in London boroughs were falling from around the 22nd December so, and I hope it is true, things should soon start to return to normal in the capital. Well, as normal as possible 🙂 Happy to hold my hands up and admit I was wrong if they don't, but I can only go off what data is available at this time.

Why are flights being cancelled because of Covid cases clearly beyond government control but not train services ?? I don't see a difference, it is a business that can't carry on doing it's business because of a pandemic. I live not far from Portsmouth and if I wanted to ravel to London I would take the train to Waterloo, I'm sure there will be some inconveniences but am genuinely fairly sure there will not be any "chaos" caused by this decision.

And all the flights that have been cancelled by various countries........ I guess that is exactly the same ??

As have the Governments of the US, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal.......................

I wouldn't have said that, looked a good footballer and fully committed...........that is all we can ask for at the moment

The one thing I would say is that the "wave" from the Omicron variant seems to be very short lived. In SA it appeared to last around three weeks and Ricardo's charts show that the London boroughs that led the wave from around the 10th Dec were reporting falling case numbers by the 22nd (so no real "Christmas effect"). Hopefully that will be the case around the rest of the country and the main UK figure will start falling maybe sometime around 9/10 Jan (allowing that there will be bound to be something of a NYE kick)

You wouldn't be happy supporting an owner who employs around 4,000 highly paid engineers in the UK ???

And I'm sure we hope that continues. It does get to me a bit that people harangue the government for not following the science and when the science from South Africa gives some very clear messages they seem to feel that it is not worth listening to (and I say that in a way that does not excuse this government for their repeated failures)

YF............. yes, we are all waiting, we genuinely do understand that the figures are a bit all over the place for the last few days. It is perfectly understandable. Literally nobody on here is trying to draw any conclusions from the last couple of days of data

I don't think that is strictly true YF, the hospital numbers are the key, surely - and I say that knowing that they are rising around 200 per day at the moment. But there is also quite a body of evidence out there that suggests the Omicron variant is not only far less debilitating but that the "wave" seems to pass more quickly than previous variants. If the figures that Ricardo posted regarding London are correct (and we have no reason to assume they aren't) they seem to back this up.

I'm not sure many people are paying too much attention to the Christmas numbers YF. The only ones I am keeping my fingers crossed for are those that Ricardo published which seem to show numbers in London falling before the Xmas break.

Merry Christmas and a happy ride out of the relegation positions in the New Year to you all 🙂

That's not to say Ferguson wouldn't have done if he had the chance 🤣

I've seen this is in several countries, I think there are two reasons - firstly number of cases and number of deaths may be properly collated on different days. And secondly, a simple lack of a strict testing regime ie case numbers are far higher than being detected.

Cases in the Netherlands have been falling since just before mid-December, this latest lockdown hasn't had time to take effect yet but will accelerate the drop I assume

Can't see a difference myself............. consistently wrong and thinks the rules don't apply to him........ who does that remind you of ?

Not sure how much credibility Neil Ferguson has any longer ??? Anyway, I guess the next couple of weeks will tell us a more rounded picture

Agreed 🙂

I think the evidence of the lower severity of Omicron has been building for quite a few days now YF. Plenty of quotes from SA, a couple of notable epidemiologists from here as well as a Ward Sister I saw the other day who said the hospital admissions with Omicron were generally being released from hospital in 2-3 days. And no, I'm not going to dig them all out 😉

The word "additional" in there suggests we had already purchased some of each of these treatments ???