Fer a massive loss

[The Great Drinkell 51]

Having read recent comments regarding Leroy''s performances - having watched today''s match anybody still think we are better without him? Tettey. And Johnson just don''t look the same players without him.

I have been confident of our survival all season but Fer''s absence may be a fatal blow to us.

[morty 0]

[quote user="The Great Drinkell"]Having read recent comments regarding Leroy''s performances - having watched today''s match anybody still think we are better without him? Tettey. And Johnson just don''t look the same players without him.

I have been confident of our survival all season but Fer''s absence may be a fatal blow to us.[/quote]I was astounded that some people implied in the earlier thread that he would be no great loss to us just because Howson was nearly back to fitness.

[GJP 79]

Well for me he''s not quite as important as Howson.

 

But with neither of them in the team I''d never fancy us to do much. We need at least one of them in there.

[SeattleCanary 0]

Does it make any difference either way? We are so inconsistent, with a win followed by a string of draws and losses and he was involved in those games. Did I miss the similar games where we conceded quick fire goals at West Ham and Cardiff when he was in the team?

[GJP 79]

[quote user="SeattleCanary"]Does it make any difference either way? We are so inconsistent, with a win followed by a string of draws and losses and he was involved in those games. Did I miss the similar games where we conceded quick fire goals at West Ham and Cardiff when he was in the team?[/quote]

Not an unfair point, I guess.

 

Infact it''s quite a similar angle to what I''ve said about Martin when people talk about how he should be captain. Apparently he''d be a much better choice than Bassong yet he - as club captain - is part of just as many disasters.

[morty 0]

How on earth can having one less player to choose from, be seen as being as positive in any way?

[Mr Jenkins 0]

Its not about one player

[morty 0]

[quote user="Brienne"]Its not about one player[/quote]We are talking about one player in the context of this thread.It was implied, in an earlier thread, that the loss of Leroy would have no bearing.Which I find odd.

[SeattleCanary 0]

I get what you are saying, and I too think its better the more players we have fit to choose from. But quality wise, one player would have had little impact today in the result and the way we performed as a unit, and to keep it on topic the OP said we missed him today. While I agree in this context we are discussing one player, overall I felt he was alluding to the point that one player missing in todays game made a difference, and I simply felt it did not.

Fer or no Fer, the result would have been similar, as it was all too similar today to weeks gone by.

[morty 0]

[quote user="SeattleCanary"]I get what you are saying, and I too think its better the more players we have fit to choose from. But quality wise, one player would have had little impact today in the result and the way we performed as a unit, and to keep it on topic the OP said we missed him today. While I agree in this context we are discussing one player, overall I felt he was alluding to the point that one player missing in todays game made a difference, and I simply felt it did not.

Fer or no Fer, the result would have been similar, as it was all too similar today to weeks gone by.

[/quote]You have no way, whatsoever, of knowing if Leroy Fer could have made a difference today.

[GJP 79]

He couldn''t have been worse than Johnson was.

[SeattleCanary 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="SeattleCanary"]I get what you are saying, and I too think its better the more players we have fit to choose from. But quality wise, one player would have had little impact today in the result and the way we performed as a unit, and to keep it on topic the OP said we missed him today. While I agree in this context we are discussing one player, overall I felt he was alluding to the point that one player missing in todays game made a difference, and I simply felt it did not.

Fer or no Fer, the result would have been similar, as it was all too similar today to weeks gone by.

[/quote]You have no way, whatsoever, of knowing if Leroy Fer could have made a difference today.[/quote]

That is true. But since when have we ever been a one man team? You need a solid 11, and we probably had about 4 players who came out of that game with some credit. The ''team'' lost us that game, and Howson, Fer, Bale or Ronaldo couldn''t have made a difference.

My point being, the way we play and have been playing, he alone would not have got us a point or 3 today when we let in easy goals.

[SeattleCanary 0]

[quote user="GJP"]

He couldn''t have been worse than Johnson was.

[/quote]

He''d have done better than Bassong at CB too I''m sure. Jonno has been immense until today, Bass has been poo. It''s hard to drop a player when they are playing well.

[GJP 79]

I think we''d have had a better chance with Fer and Howson.

 

Think there may have been a slight improvement with Ronaldo too.

[morty 0]

[quote user="SeattleCanary"][quote user="morty"][quote user="SeattleCanary"]I get what you are saying, and I too think its better the more players we have fit to choose from. But quality wise, one player would have had little impact today in the result and the way we performed as a unit, and to keep it on topic the OP said we missed him today. While I agree in this context we are discussing one player, overall I felt he was alluding to the point that one player missing in todays game made a difference, and I simply felt it did not.

Fer or no Fer, the result would have been similar, as it was all too similar today to weeks gone by.

[/quote]You have no way, whatsoever, of knowing if Leroy Fer could have made a difference today.[/quote]

That is true. But since when have we ever been a one man team? You need a solid 11, and we probably had about 4 players who came out of that game with some credit. The ''team'' lost us that game, and Howson, Fer, Bale or Ronaldo couldn''t have made a difference.

My point being, the way we play and have been playing, he alone would not have got us a point or 3 today when we let in easy goals.

[/quote]What do you mean by "the way we have been playing"?Today was uncharacteristic compared to the performances of the last 3 or 4 games, and the manager having to leave out two players in Fer and Ricky, who were both excellent last week, was always going to make a difference.Had it been me picking the team today, I would much rather have picked Fer, than Wes.

[GJP 79]

Had it been me picking the team it would have been Fer or Howson instead of Johnson as a priority.

[SeattleCanary 0]

[quote user="morty"]What do you mean by "the way we have been playing"?Today was uncharacteristic compared to the performances of the last 3 or 4 games, and the manager having to leave out two players in Fer and Ricky, who were both excellent last week, was always going to make a difference.Had it been me picking the team today, I would much rather have picked Fer, than Wes.[/quote]

I mean that we have been inconsistent all season, and in the last 4 games alone have conceded 4 quick fire goals in the 2 away games at West Ham and Cardiff. It wasn''t uncharacteristic when the first goal went in and the heads went down, you could almost write the script after seeing the same thing against WH and Cardiff.

I would have picked Fer over Wes too, but only because he had been playing. I felt it would have been good to give Howson play time during the game, and he was given that. Now next week I want to see Howson start at the expense of Wes. If Fer had been fit, and BJ carried on his form of the last few games, I would have dropped Fer for Howson. As of now, I''d drop BJ for Howson and keep Fer, but of course that isn''t an option.

Either way, we have such low confidence I really don''t know what it''ll take to get these last 10 points. Hopefully home form will see us through starting with Stoke, then WBA and Sunderland and a cheeky point away at Swansea or one of the bigger clubs. This season, however it pans out has been a hugely frustrating time.

[Holtcantshoot 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="SeattleCanary"][quote user="morty"][quote user="SeattleCanary"]I get what you are saying, and I too think its better the more players we have fit to choose from. But quality wise, one player would have had little impact today in the result and the way we performed as a unit, and to keep it on topic the OP said we missed him today. While I agree in this context we are discussing one player, overall I felt he was alluding to the point that one player missing in todays game made a difference, and I simply felt it did not.

Fer or no Fer, the result would have been similar, as it was all too similar today to weeks gone by.

[/quote]You have no way, whatsoever, of knowing if Leroy Fer could have made a difference today.[/quote]

That is true. But since when have we ever been a one man team? You need a solid 11, and we probably had about 4 players who came out of that game with some credit. The ''team'' lost us that game, and Howson, Fer, Bale or Ronaldo couldn''t have made a difference.

My point being, the way we play and have been playing, he alone would not have got us a point or 3 today when we let in easy goals.

[/quote]What do you mean by "the way we have been playing"?Today was uncharacteristic compared to the performances of the last 3 or 4 games, and the manager having to leave out two players in Fer and Ricky, who were both excellent last week, was always going to make a difference.Had it been me picking the team today, I would much rather have picked Fer, than Wes.[/quote]To be honest these performances have been very similar to our last two away games against Cardiff and West Ham. We matched them for much of the game, looked like we had a good chance of taking something and then two quick goals kill us off and we seem to just give up after that. Agreed though, not having Fer available is an obvious disadvantage to us.

[SeattleCanary 0]

[quote user="GJP"]

Had it been me picking the team it would have been Fer or Howson instead of Johnson as a priority.

[/quote]

I''m sorry, you cannot drop the guy who was MOTM against Spurs, smashed the crossbar with an awesome free kick, and got an assist. Thats just madness.

[morty 0]

[quote user="SeattleCanary"][quote user="morty"]What do you mean by "the way we have been playing"?Today was uncharacteristic compared to the performances of the last 3 or 4 games, and the manager having to leave out two players in Fer and Ricky, who were both excellent last week, was always going to make a difference.Had it been me picking the team today, I would much rather have picked Fer, than Wes.[/quote]

I mean that we have been inconsistent all season, and in the last 4 games alone have conceded 4 quick fire goals in the 2 away games at West Ham and Cardiff. It wasn''t uncharacteristic when the first goal went in and the heads went down, you could almost write the script after seeing the same thing against WH and Cardiff.

I would have picked Fer over Wes too, but only because he had been playing. I felt it would have been good to give Howson play time during the game, and he was given that. Now next week I want to see Howson start at the expense of Wes. If Fer had been fit, and BJ carried on his form of the last few games, I would have dropped Fer for Howson. As of now, I''d drop BJ for Howson and keep Fer, but of course that isn''t an option.

Either way, we have such low confidence I really don''t know what it''ll take to get these last 10 points. Hopefully home form will see us through starting with Stoke, then WBA and Sunderland and a cheeky point away at Swansea or one of the bigger clubs. This season, however it pans out has been a hugely frustrating time.

[/quote]We''re sh1t away, its hardly new news, is it? Its our home form that will keep us in this division.Howson isn''t fit enough to play 90 minutes yet, but I would bet that he will replace Wes next week. Its sometimes better to keep your powder dry, Jonny got some minutes under his belt today, and will be ready for next week, which is a far more important game.I genuinely think we''ll be fine.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="SeattleCanary"][quote user="GJP"]

Had it been me picking the team it would have been Fer or Howson instead of Johnson as a priority.

[/quote]

I''m sorry, you cannot drop the guy who was MOTM against Spurs, smashed the crossbar with an awesome free kick, and got an assist. Thats just madness.

[/quote]

Yes you can.

 

But if you can''t drop him after a good performance against Spurs can you drop him for a dire performance against Villa?

 

We''ve got better players than him and if those better players are available then they should be in the team. Simple as that.

 

 

 

 

[SeattleCanary 0]

[quote user="GJP"][quote user="SeattleCanary"][quote user="GJP"]

Had it been me picking the team it would have been Fer or Howson instead of Johnson as a priority.

[/quote]

I''m sorry, you cannot drop the guy who was MOTM against Spurs, smashed the crossbar with an awesome free kick, and got an assist. Thats just madness.

[/quote]

Yes you can.

 

But if you can''t drop him after a good performance against Spurs can you drop him for a dire performance against Villa?

 

We''ve got better players than him and if those better players are available then they should be in the team. Simple as that.

 

 

 

 

[/quote]

Now you can drop him, yes. But not before today. Who would you replace him with now Fer is injured too?

[GJP 79]

A cardboard cut out of Mark Fotheringham.

[SeattleCanary 0]

[quote user="GJP"]

A cardboard cut out of Mark Fotheringham.

[/quote]

Ah you''re a BJ hater. It all makes sense now. He won''t be dropped for the next game, so sorry to disappoint. Howson should be in for Wes though.

[GJP 79]

I don''t hate Johnson. I think he''s a good player to have in the squad.

 

But we have better players and if they are available then they should play.

 

Absolutely replace him with Howson - a far better player. And give Howson and Hoolahan a chance to get some decent football going - because you don''t get enough of that with Johnson.

[SeattleCanary 0]

[quote user="GJP"]

I don''t hate Johnson. I think he''s a good player to have in the squad.

 

But we have better players and if they are available then they should play.

 

Absolutely replace him with Howson - a far better player. And give Howson and Hoolahan a chance to get some decent football going - because you don''t get enough of that with Johnson.

[/quote]

Fair enough, apologies. A midfield 3 of Hoolahoop, Howson and Tettey would get torn apart IMO, especially against Stoke.

[GJP 79]

What happened with it today then with Johnson in the team? Unlikely to be any worse without him against Stoke, I would suggest.

 

Might as well get the better footballers in the team and give yourselves a better chance of doing something with the ball because Johnson is just too slow and ponderous.

 

He has the odd good game (like Spurs) but most of the time what he gives you in two or three tackles a match doesn''t make up for the times he gives the ball away with poor passing or getting caught on the ball.

[SeattleCanary 0]

[quote user="GJP"]

What happened with it today then with Johnson in the team? Unlikely to be any worse without him against Stoke, I would suggest.

 

Might as well get the better footballers in the team and give yourselves a better chance of doing something with the ball because Johnson is just too slow and ponderous.

 

He has the odd good game (like Spurs) but most of the time what he gives you in two or three tackles a match doesn''t make up for the times he gives the ball away with poor passing or getting caught on the ball.

[/quote]

I don''t think you can blame BJ for defenders not doing their jobs. 3 out of the back 4 were awful today, and at home against Man. C and Spurs he''s been great. After Olsson he''s my POTS (because Howson got injured). I guess we will see who the manager picks, but our side needs balance to it, and I''d say for all his positive work in the first 20 minutes Wes is the reason the oppo we able to get through so easily to get at the defence. Not to mention if you take that stance then about 7-8 players should also be dropped, starting with Bass for R. Benno.

I''m sure he''ll start next week, even if he is subbed off later in the game for Wes or Howson.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="SeattleCanary"][quote user="GJP"]

What happened with it today then with Johnson in the team? Unlikely to be any worse without him against Stoke, I would suggest.

 

Might as well get the better footballers in the team and give yourselves a better chance of doing something with the ball because Johnson is just too slow and ponderous.

 

He has the odd good game (like Spurs) but most of the time what he gives you in two or three tackles a match doesn''t make up for the times he gives the ball away with poor passing or getting caught on the ball.

[/quote]

I don''t think you can blame BJ for defenders not doing their jobs. 3 out of the back 4 were awful today,

[/quote]

I haven''t blamed Johnson for the defenders not doing their jobs. I haven''t said anything of the sort. Infact I agree with your opinion that 3 out of the 4 were poor.

 

But I do blame Johnson for not doing his job.

[SeattleCanary 0]

[quote user="GJP"][quote user="SeattleCanary"][quote user="GJP"]

What happened with it today then with Johnson in the team? Unlikely to be any worse without him against Stoke, I would suggest.

 

Might as well get the better footballers in the team and give yourselves a better chance of doing something with the ball because Johnson is just too slow and ponderous.

 

He has the odd good game (like Spurs) but most of the time what he gives you in two or three tackles a match doesn''t make up for the times he gives the ball away with poor passing or getting caught on the ball.

[/quote]

I don''t think you can blame BJ for defenders not doing their jobs. 3 out of the back 4 were awful today,

[/quote]

I haven''t blamed Johnson for the defenders not doing their jobs. I haven''t said anything of the sort. Infact I agree with your opinion that 3 out of the 4 were poor.

 

But I do blame Johnson for not doing his job.

[/quote]

So why does he deserve to be dropped and Wes or Tettey don''t?