Expectancy Levels

[BarclayCanary (Former HDDH) 0]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15522398.stm

I think Lambert is spot on, we went into the game expecting three points players included, we are newly promoted and I personally think we should go into games not expecting to win, which will lower the expectation levels.

I think that is why we were so quiet on saturday to because we were shocked at going behind by a ''out of form team'' and a ''team we should beat easily''.

Let''s just back the boys throughout no matter what happens.

OTBC!!!!!!

[Bill 1,788]

"I personally think we should go into games not expecting to win"

Yep, it''s that not winning mentality that has got us where we are now

[BarclayCanary (Former HDDH) 0]

I am sure you know what I meant, here is for you then ''Going into games expecting an easy game''

[Chip20 69]

I don''t think the players went in expecting an easy game at all. Lambert warned fans about that in the pre-match build-up; I don''t imagine he forgot to relay it to the players. It is purely some fans who have got carried away with our recent good form and are getting complacent.

[nutty nigel 7,645]

I don''t think it matters what  we expect. If we are losing 1-3 at home to anyone the crowd will be quiet. The fans will be disappointed. Even if it''s Man Utd. The difference this season is that the fans although quiet don''t boo like last season v Donny. That''s because most fans are realistic enough to know the difference.

 

[Bill 1,788]

I think one of the factors with the crowd is that we are now into our third season where every game is vitally important. It may have started later in the first two seasons whereby at Xmas we looked like we could be in the mix to go up. Some haven''t quite grasped what is really going on with the club.

Unfortunately many have worked themselves into a frenzy of stupidity this season and somehow, with less than a quarter of the season gone, built the Blackburn game up into a "6 pointer". Nerves don''t always lead to great vocal support.

Maybe when it dawns on more fans, as the season progresses, that we are more and more likely to be fighting for a place below the top six we might see a bit more of the vocal support we are capable of.

So to the jelly spined doom mongers, take a step back, look at what is happening both on and off the pitch and recognise that a bit of support might just push us a bit further on.

Europe here we come

[splutcho 176]

City1st, you really need to calm it down a bit. We will not be anywhere near Europe. You seriously need a dose of realism.

[Canary_on_the Trent 0]

I agree with City1st in that we should believe we can win any game but also to be realistic and understand we''re coming up against sides with bigger budgets and proven experience at this level so can''t expect to take points.

As fans, all we can do is get behind the side and support them vocally. If we''re struggling in a game, understand we''re up against a side with bigger resources and proven top level players but in Lambert and this group of players, we have a team unit that gives it everything and isn''t short on quality itself.

[lake district canary 0]

I know I''m going to get shot down for this, but this expectancy nonsense is completely out of control.

We''ve got people who expect to win because we''re playing the bottom club, even though all teams have their strong points and are dangerous.

We''ve got people who fear we are going to be relegated and are going to look over their shoulder for the whole season, despite the fact we have a good team and manager.

Expectations of either persuasion are unnecessary and counter productive.

The only way we should be looking at this is to enjoy the matches one match at a time. Each is an event where both teams start equal and we should be positive in our outlook and give as much support as we can.

If 25,000+ people in a stadium all have a good attitude, it can have a dramatic effect on the pitch.

If the attitude is bad (think of Wolves) it can have the opposite effect. I don''t think we should underestimate what a large crowd can put across.

Players are only human and are bound to be affected by what is happening around them and while it is up to them to give the crowd something to shout about, it works both ways.

You''ve only got to look into recent history to know what I am saying is correct. Once the club gets on a downer on and off the pitch, the club can go down and down. That''s what makes the turn round in our fortune so incredible.

I say don''t ''expect'' to win and don''t ''expect'' to lose.

Just be positive and be in the present moment when at matches. It''s what players have to do and we can help make their job easier.

Relegation is not an issue, certainly not at this stage of the season. Winning the league is not an issue. Just enjoy the matches - with such a good positive manager, we can relax and enjoy the ride.

The positivity our team shows most of the time is a credir to the club, let us fans be the same!!! I know alot of us are positive, but hey, we all know people who are not!

[Canary_on_the Trent 0]

100% LDC.

All we can do is take it 1 game at a time and support a side that we know will give it absolutely everything whether they win, lose or draw.

[Bill 1,788]

"We will not be anywhere near Europe"

Yes, it''s not as if we are anywhee near that at the moment. For the last two seasons we were treated to the whinging and whining of your ''ever so ''umble'' type and if I remember well, you lot were spectacularly wrong.

"I agree with City1st in that we should believe we can win any game but also to be realistic and understand we''re coming up against sides with bigger budgets and proven experience at this level so can''t expect to take points".

The confusion is between ''can'' and ''will.'' I''m sure Lambert sends his team out with the belief that they can win EVERY game. The ''never say die'' attitude has demonstrated that. However NO ONE is saying that we will win every game. No team does, nor would they expect to either.

Otherwise nothing I have seen so far this season and before suggests we are merely relegation fodder or that fans should sit quietly either biting their nails in fear or wringing their caps in gratitude at the few crumbs that might fall our way.

A winning mentality has got us where we are now. Maybe if that rubbed off a bit on fans it might help. Perhaps not to get more points but at least to stop the endless defeatist bleating that slutco and the rest of saddos keep cluttering up this board with.

[curly_whirly_tipz 0]

I agree with what many have said. We have been exceeding the expected and therefore fans expect the run to continue. We have been used to winning the past few seasons also.

Definately best to take it 1 game at a time with every point or 3 gained being a point or 3 towards saving us from relegationWe will lose games and as much as I hate to say it we will probably get thrashed at least once but its no use as soon as we lose, people thinking we are going to stuggle.

[lake district canary 0]

"we will probably get thrashed at least once"

Don''t know.......when was the last time a PL team got thrashed? 3-0 Swansea? Can''t think of anything worse than that (MKdons apart).

Often when we go a goal or two goals down, the team keeps going and fights back.

Don''t see it myself, but you never know. Would like to think we''ll be in with a shout in every match this season - we have so far,

[Aggy 766]

LDC and someone else (Trent? sorry, can''t remember!) said that we should take one game at a time, and then say things like "at the start of every game, both sides are equal". But that''s rubbish.

Either we should be taking one game at a time - therefore if we lose to teams who are miles below us in the league it is a bad performance (even if it is a one off, doesn''t mean we need to be suicidal, but there''s nothing wrong with admitting it was a poor performance),

OR

we should have some sort of expectation. Either that''s to stay up, or whatever, but you can''t say let''s take one game at a time and then say we shouldn''t be critical of a performance that is poor in one of those games. You can''t have it both ways.

If you want to take it game by game, then surely you weigh up at the start of each game where both sides are in the league, recent form, injuries etc. and then make an assessment on who SHOULD be winning that game - if the result goes the wrong way, then surely it is a poor result? If you want to set a target of staying up, then even if we have a couple of bad games, you can maybe turn a blind eye to those more if we''re still on track to stay up.

Personally, this is the first season in a long time that I''m NOT going for game by game. For me, i couldn''t care less if we beat Manchester city 7-0, or if we lost to Blackburn by 12. As long as we''re 17th or above come the final whistle on the last day of the season, then I couldn''t care less. And at the moment, we''re more than on track for that, so I can''t complain at all!

[lake district canary 0]

Aggy wrote: "Then make an assessment on who SHOULD be winning that game - if the result goes the wrong way, then surely it is a poor result?"

The point I am trying to make is - who are we to judge? How do we know if we are going to be stuffed by Liverpool, draw 1-1 or win? How do you judge?

I don''t believe you can pre-judge games. It is better in my view to give support to the team without saying they should do this or should have done that.

I would rather enjoy games for their own sake than worry about 17th. place, which is something that will or will not occur in 6 months time. Are we really going to spend the whole season in trepidation that we might not make 17th. place or above? What is the point in that?

For goodness sake lighten up and enjoy these matches otherwise Carrow Rd will become too tense a place to go - and make it harder for the team to perform.

[Aggy 766]

Yes, for me, the whole season is ultimately about finishing 17th or above. Thankfully, we''re playing that well that I don''t need to be WORRIED about it, but yeah, if we were down there right in the mixer at the moment, I''d be worried. What''s the point in getting into the premiership if you''re not going to be worried about getting relegated straight back out of it?!

Who are we to judge? Well, if you''re going on a game by game basis, as you advocate, then surely you judge by where each team is in the league before each game? If you''re Manchester City and you''re 5 points clear at the top of the league, you would expect to beat Blackburn. Yeah ok, it''s not quite that simple, you need to take injuries, current form (if they''ve won 4 on the bounce a corner may have been turned or whatever), and various other things into account, but surely before a game there is a "favourite".

If the game doesn''t go that way, then no, we shouldn''t be suicidal because of one game, at least not in my opinion, because if we play absolutely terribly in one game, I can shrug it off as long as we ultimately stay up. But on the other hand, you can still say what is a good performance/result, and what is a bad performance/result without suddenly deciding that one result is going to relegate us.

[lake district canary 0]

We would all agree that 17th. place or above would be a great achievement, but for me the best way of supporting the team is to treat every game the same.

I''ve seen alot of posters who place too much importance on winning against certain teams -especially this week with Blackburn. It is true that it does have an add on effect if you lose to the teams around you, but it seems that for some people before Saturday if we lost to Blackburn we would almost certainly be relegated. Its barmy, but it seems to have affected the atomosphere at the ground.

It was a strange game in some ways. Could this be down to (misplaced) nervousness in the crowd?

I would like to think we would go into every game confident that the team are going to put in a good performance. Not necessarily expecting to win, but confident they will perform. If the crowd is confident and optimistic, this will transmit to the players and give the team more of a boost.

[Bill 1,788]

"We would all agree that 17th. place or above would be a great achievement"

Absolute old tosh

Thank god nobody at the club shares that grovellin'', little ole norwich menatlity otherwise we would still have Bryan Gunn in charge and the gutless on here would be wringing their caps in gratitude that we got a point at Rotherham which keeps us out of the bottom 3 of League 2 .... for now.

17th would be a massive failure

Massive, when set against what we have achieved since the summer of 2009. And that includes the games this season.

Get off your knees and look where we are, and ask why we are there. By snivelin'' and crawling ? No, by tiurning the club inside out. By bringing in hard faced professionals both on and off the pitch. The points we have won so far have been by dint of good play and in most games we have been equal to the opposition, if not better.That is not relegation form, nor will it be.

Thankfully for some, the players do not share this ''ever so ''umble'' mentality nor the attitude that we are second best.

The teams final place next May will not be dependant upon any comments on here - but were we to go back to another May over 70 years ago and we would have had Churchill reading out a pinkun speech

"We shall take fright of our betters, we shall give in at the away grounds, we shall lose it on the field and out on the streets, we shall take flight to the hills; we shall always surrender, and if, this season lasts for 38 games and relegation follows men will say, thank god we are back where we belong "

"Never before have so many doubted so few"

[nutty nigel 7,645]

17th might be a great achievment if we were in the bottom three after 10 games. 10 games is usually a good pointer to what the season holds. There are exceptions of course with our season in League One being an example. But we are top half after 10 games. Top half is what the players have achieved. Now I can''t see those players now deciding they can take it easy because they are topping expectations!! They will want to hold on to what they have. You can bet a top half finish is now their aim. They will fight for every point to achieve as higher posityion as they can get. We have the easy bit because all we have to do is support and believe in them.

 

 

[splutcho 176]

Nigel we have the same points that Blackpool did last season after 10 games, just one more than Burnley the year before, and seven less than Hull the season before that. Let''s be realistic.

It''s nothing to do with "''umble" Norwich or whatever this strange deluded bloke is on about, it''s just the way it is.

[BarclayCanary (Former HDDH) 0]

I think come Christmas or January will be a better time to tell where we r going to be, but I have to agree with LDC, it does seem like the nervousness from the crowd transmits to the players.

[curly_whirly_tipz 0]

I disagree, if we scrape 17th place then we have the extra money to strengthen our squad next year. I think focus mainly more on beating the drop zone the first season and then focus on finishing higher the next season. Obviously any higher is an absolute bonus and Paul Lambert has got a winning mentality among the squad and therefore there is no reason why we cant finish higher than that.

[lake district canary 0]

Spot on CWT.

If we finish higher in the table - and of course we should aim as high as possible, all well and good.

But given it''s the first season back in the premiership, 17th. would be a satisfactory position to finish in. Then build from that.

I just think we should be positive and also accept we could finish much higher.

[Shack Attack 0]

I agree with City1st in that I really don''t see finishing 17th as ''an achievement''. I think maybe too many people are getting sucked into the Premier League narrative* which states that any promoted team should automatically be favourites for relegation so therefore 17th is what they should aim for. You hear it so often from the media and from ex-players that I guess some choose to believe it.

 

What I don''t get is what those people have been doing for the past two years? Have they been sitting at Carrow Road with their eyes shut? You don''t rise from the third tier of the league to eighth in the top flight by showing such paucity of ambition. If Paul Lambert and the players had have shown the lack of belief in their own ability that some fans have over this period we would probably be scratching around the Championship play-offs now having ''consolidated'' our position last season. Instead our bright young manager and his hungry young players took the division by storm, playing stylish and modern football and being backed by an off the field team hell bent on shedding our ''little Norwich'' reputation for good.

 

The game on Saturday didn''t show that expectancy levels are too high. What it did show is that if you have an off day in this league then even the poorer teams have individual players who can make you pay. But it also showed that if you have a team who never knows when it''s beaten and has supreme confidence in it''s ability then you are never completely out of a game. Thankfully we haven''t had too many off days over the last couple of years and there is no reason to think that we''ll be suddenly affected by them now just because we are playing in ''The Bestest League In The World TM''. It''s time some of our fans started showing a little more faith in our club and recognised the massive transformation that has been made over the last couple of years. This time next year we could be preparing to rest our key players for a tiring trip to Ukraine after taking our Europa League group by storm. It wouldn''t surprise me at all.

 

* The Premier League narrative also states that Manchester United always play attacking football, Everton are a massive club and Stoke on a Tuesday night is the most inhospitable place on Earth.

[Harry 0]

1st in League One, 2nd in the Championship, anything but 3rd this season will be failure ;)

In all seriousness there is nothing wrong with expectancy, it''s complacency that can be a problem, I fully believe we can beat any team on our day but that doesn''t mean I believe we can just turn up every week and win, we need to get behind the players vocally whether we are playing well, badly, winning, drawing or loosing.

It''s my opinion that we often play better away from home as the support is vocal and tends to drown out the grumbles and moans and nervousness coming from some of our fans, at home games there are more fans that grumble and moan than those that sing and chant some of which can probably be picked up on the pitch which won''t help the players.

[BarclayCanary (Former HDDH) 0]

''In all seriousness there is nothing wrong with expectancy, it''s complacency that can be a problem, I fully believe we can beat any team on our day but that doesn''t mean I believe we can just turn up every week and win, we need to get behind the players vocally whether we are playing well, badly, winning, drawing or loosing''

I have to agree on our day I believe we can beat anyone, and once again I agree that we need to get behind the team vocally no matter what.

''It''s my opinion that we often play better away from home as the support is vocal and tends to drown out the grumbles and moans and nervousness coming from some of our fans, at home games there are more fans that grumble and moan than those that sing and chant some of which can probably be picked up on the pitch which won''t help the players''

Again I think you are correct here, hense why I wish to go to an away game or two and that is because the support away from home is a lot more vocal, lets get CR rocking again when thye Gooners come and visit :)

OTBC!

[nutty nigel 7,645]

[quote user="splutcho"]Nigel we have the same points that Blackpool did last season after 10 games, just one more than Burnley the year before, and seven less than Hull the season before that. Let''s be realistic. It''s nothing to do with "''umble" Norwich or whatever this strange deluded bloke is on about, it''s just the way it is.[/quote]

 

I see the point your making buddy but I don''t think we can be compared with Blackpool, Hull and Burnley. In my book that''s negativity just because those three sides finished 17th or worse. In fact Blakpool and Burnley were nothing like us. They were in a false position. Just look at the goal differences which is always an indication. After 10 games Blackpool had a GD of -6 and Burnley''s a whopping -12. These two sides and Hull were all promoted via the play-offs. Hull only just missed out on auto but Burnley finished 5th and Blackpool 6th. We have carried on our winning mentality from the previous two seasons. Our players are where they are on merit and I have every confidence our manager won''t be as inept later in the season as Brown was at Hull.

 

 

[splutcho 176]

Well I hope you are all right and I am proved wrong, but I just don''t see how we''re that different from any other side that has come up.

[BarclayCanary (Former HDDH) 0]

Well Holloway used to be a bit of a media/attention whore, we steer clear from all of the Media coverage.

We also have a manager who will tap it into there brain that even though we are/if we are midtable come christmas for example that we need to kick on and pick up more points.

I think the problem with Hull and Blackpool was they got a little complacent about the position they were in.

Like LDC and everyone says, jsut enjoy the games one at a time :)

OTBC!

[nutty nigel 7,645]

[quote user="splutcho"]Well I hope you are all right and I am proved wrong, but I just don''t see how we''re that different from any other side that has come up.[/quote]

 

I don''t think we are any different from any other side that''s come up. But the three sides that you selected came up via the play-offs. Why not compare us to Newcastle, WBA, Wolves, Birmingham or Stoke who were promoted automatically. Just choosing Blackpool, Burney and Hull is a bit negative in my book. I think we should believe in the team we have and back them to finish as high as they can instead of looking for reasons to say they are in a false position and it won''t last.