RUSTY

[Binky 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

We did well to get rid of the over rated clingan and I am glad we kept hold of/failed to sell Rusty despite my criticisms of him last season. 

[/quote]

This I totally agree with. I was a huge critic of our midfield last season Rusty included. In fact, when he could be bothered I thought Fotheringham was the best of a bad bunch. Trouble with him was he couldn''t be bothered very often and I was as glad as anyone to see the back of him. The thing with Sammy Clingan was that he looked the part on the ball. Quite a stylish player when tackling back or with the ball at his feet,. But far too often he left the defence totally exposed. But we never seem to notice what players don''t do.

 [/quote]

Nutty - you are joking right? Even when Fotheringham "could be bothered" his passing and corner kicks were woeful. Surely a midfielder has to do more than run around and be a nuisance? I can''t believe you would prefer him to Clingan.

Clingan is highly rated at Coventry and has scored 3 goals even though has been out injured (Dec2009): "Clingan’s nine-week absence with a broken metatarsal

coincided with a run of 10 games without a Championship victory that

saw the Sky Blues slither to the brink of the relegation zone... Maybe some teams are thinking the same having failed to sign up Fotheringham when he was going begging....IMO, in Bell and Clingan, Coventry now have our two best midfielders from last season

[Binky 0]

[quote user="Bob Franklin"]

[quote user="Binky"]To the OP: Russell is not my favourite player but he has been nothing less than excellent in most games. Clingan was a class above most of his team mates (being beaten by Croft to player of the year was laughable) but he was never going to play in League 1. Similarly or conversely, we were very lucky to hang on to Russell - not least because management at one time saw him (and Doherty) as a means of adding something back to the financial overdraft. I am relieved most on here (and Lambert) would disagree with you.You are right about one thing though: the diamond system does depend on someone good in Russell''s role. And the reason it has been so successful to date, might just be because.......[/quote]

 You omitted to mention that Hoolahan too was seen ny the Board as a cash converter along with the Doc and Russell.All three were selected to be sold but no one came in with the right offer. Sorry to be repetitive but it was Gunn who strongly objected to this plan and, by consequence, made "enemies (an enemy) in high places" and of course the 7-1 hiding on the opening day of the season was just the excuse needed to get rid of him. This isn''t a pro-Gunn crusade as the Gunn episode is now past history and Lambert is undeniably doing a great job after an initial period of uncertainty and settlement.

[/quote]Indeed I did - but the thread was about Russell - I just added Doc as a further example as he was actually transfer listed - Hoolahan was not to my knowledge. I have no reason to doubt that Gunn made himself unpopular by standing firm on the three of them - or at least not moving fast enough for the CEO''s liking. And you are also absolutely right to say that Lambert is undeniably doing a great job. That may of course, include being able to persuade others that players like Russell, Doc and Hoolahan really need to stay. I hope so and we will know fairly soon won''t we?

[Walphy 0]

[quote user="Binky"][quote user="Bob Franklin"]

[quote user="Binky"]To the OP: Russell is not my favourite player but he has been nothing less than excellent in most games. Clingan was a class above most of his team mates (being beaten by Croft to player of the year was laughable) but he was never going to play in League 1. Similarly or conversely, we were very lucky to hang on to Russell - not least because management at one time saw him (and Doherty) as a means of adding something back to the financial overdraft. I am relieved most on here (and Lambert) would disagree with you.

You are right about one thing though: the diamond system does depend on someone good in Russell''s role. And the reason it has been so successful to date, might just be because.......
[/quote]

 You omitted to mention that Hoolahan too was seen ny the Board as a cash converter along with the Doc and Russell.All three were selected to be sold but no one came in with the right offer. Sorry to be repetitive but it was Gunn who strongly objected to this plan and, by consequence, made "enemies (an enemy) in high places" and of course the 7-1 hiding on the opening day of the season was just the excuse needed to get rid of him. This isn''t a pro-Gunn crusade as the Gunn episode is now past history and Lambert is undeniably doing a great job after an initial period of uncertainty and settlement.

[/quote]

Indeed I did - but the thread was about Russell - I just added Doc as a further example as he was actually transfer listed - Hoolahan was not to my knowledge. I have no reason to doubt that Gunn made himself unpopular by standing firm on the three of them - or at least not moving fast enough for the CEO''s liking. And you are also absolutely right to say that Lambert is undeniably doing a great job. That may of course, include being able to persuade others that players like Russell, Doc and Hoolahan really need to stay. I hope so and we will know fairly soon won''t we?
[/quote]

Sniff.

I don''t like the sound of this.

[:''(][:''(][:''(]

They wouldn''t would they?

Sniff.

[:''(][:''(][:''(]

[nutty nigel 7,534]

[quote user="Binky"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

We did well to get rid of the over rated clingan and I am glad we kept hold of/failed to sell Rusty despite my criticisms of him last season. 

[/quote]

This I totally agree with. I was a huge critic of our midfield last season Rusty included. In fact, when he could be bothered I thought Fotheringham was the best of a bad bunch. Trouble with him was he couldn''t be bothered very often and I was as glad as anyone to see the back of him. The thing with Sammy Clingan was that he looked the part on the ball. Quite a stylish player when tackling back or with the ball at his feet,. But far too often he left the defence totally exposed. But we never seem to notice what players don''t do.

 [/quote]

Nutty - you are joking right? Even when Fotheringham "could be bothered" his passing and corner kicks were woeful. Surely a midfielder has to do more than run around and be a nuisance? I can''t believe you would prefer him to Clingan.

Clingan is highly rated at Coventry and has scored 3 goals even though has been out injured (Dec2009): "Clingan’s nine-week absence with a broken metatarsal coincided with a run of 10 games without a Championship victory that saw the Sky Blues slither to the brink of the relegation zone... Maybe some teams are thinking the same having failed to sign up Fotheringham when he was going begging....IMO, in Bell and Clingan, Coventry now have our two best midfielders from last season

[/quote]

I''m not joking Binky. If you cast your mind back a couple of seasons to when Peter Grant was in charge Brellier was first choice and Fotheringham on the bench. Then in the home game against Southampton Fotheringham was introduced and his performance won us the game. He was unfortunately injured in that game and we only won one of the next sixteen games before he was fit and returned for Roeders first win against Coventry. He then put in a captains performance at Blackpool in our 3-1 win, I was there and forecast that Roeder would make him captain, which he duly did. He was then a huge part of Roeders succesful period but like the rest of the team he didn''t keep it up. But the big thing in Fotheringhams favour for me was that he didn''t hide. He broke up play and protected the back four. But I also have no doubt he thought himself a far better player than he actually was and so probably became unpopular in the dressingroom. One of the biggest mysteries over the last few dreadful seasons was why after recovering from that one win in sixteen and looking like play-off contenders we then reverted back to being relegation contenders so easlily. Roeder tinkered too much but maybe also players such as Fotheringham didn''t have the mental strength to see it through.

As for last season - we were relegated, end of. Clingan was part of that relegation. I don''t care what he''s done for Coventry I thought he was over-rated here. I think he may end up playing centre-back and thet could prove to be a good position for him. I thought he did well there for us and was as good as anyone else who played beside Doc last season. Anyway, he is down the bottom of the Championship with Coventry which is the highest level he has ever played at.

The player I am most interested in at the moment is Stephen Hughes. I think he''s potentially the best midfielder we have had since Safri. He can break up play, tackle, pass the ball and score goals. Seems too good to be true doesn''t it? Maybe there''s a fitness problem.

 

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Barclayman"][quote user="Iwan_09"]

I''m not a regular on here so apologies if someone has already had this rant...

It was blatently obvious on Saturday that Rusty just isn''t good enough. His position is, in my opinion, the most important in our system and i''m afraid he''s just not upto the standard. He can''t tackle, he gives the ball away and he is always out of position. We need him to just sit there, tackle and give the ball to our playmakers. When he doesn''t play well it has a bad effect on Wes, Lappo and puts pressure on the back four.

I can''t help but feel if Sammy Clingan was still with us we would be unbeatable in this league...

[/quote]what a complete knobhead, i thought this was one of those really really side splittingly ''funny'' joke threads that some people do?[/quote]Yeah, like that poster who keeps banging on about how Otsemobor is actually a decent right back... oh hang on, that''s you.

[Hairy Canary 704]

Come on admit it this is a wind up.

Rusty has been truely outstanding this season in what is a crucial position. Without a rock at the back of the diamond the rest of it wouldn''t be anywhere near so effective. The fact that the system is working so well shows you are taalking rot.

[Binky 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I''m not joking Binky. If you cast your mind back a couple of seasons to when Peter Grant was in charge Brellier was first choice and Fotheringham on the bench. Then in the home game against Southampton Fotheringham was introduced and his performance won us the game. He was unfortunately injured in that game and we only won one of the next sixteen games before he was fit and returned for Roeders first win against Coventry. He then put in a captains performance at Blackpool in our 3-1 win, I was there and forecast that Roeder would make him captain, which he duly did. He was then a huge part of Roeders succesful period but like the rest of the team he didn''t keep it up. But the big thing in Fotheringhams favour for me was that he didn''t hide. He broke up play and protected the back four. But I also have no doubt he thought himself a far better player than he actually was and so probably became unpopular in the dressingroom. One of the biggest mysteries over the last few dreadful seasons was why after recovering from that one win in sixteen and looking like play-off contenders we then reverted back to being relegation contenders so easlily. Roeder tinkered too much but maybe also players such as Fotheringham didn''t have the mental strength to see it through.

As for last season - we were relegated, end of. Clingan was part of that relegation. I don''t care what he''s done for Coventry I thought he was over-rated here. I think he may end up playing centre-back and thet could prove to be a good position for him. I thought he did well there for us and was as good as anyone else who played beside Doc last season. Anyway, he is down the bottom of the Championship with Coventry which is the highest level he has ever played at.

The player I am most interested in at the moment is Stephen Hughes. I think he''s potentially the best midfielder we have had since Safri. He can break up play, tackle, pass the ball and score goals. Seems too good to be true doesn''t it? Maybe there''s a fitness problem.

[/quote]OK Nutty - I respect your view - but my problem comes when you start to compare Fotheringham with Clingan. I can accept the (implied?) comparison with Brellier and although there is a time in every season when you need a few who do not "hide" - that''s not the same thing as someone who always wants the ball (Clingan) - although I never thought Clingan went AWOL  either; but mostly I want to see some skill and thoughtful football. Didn''t see that from Fotheringham too often but I did from Clingan. If I am wrong, eventually someone here will surely sign Fotheringham up won''t they? Remember he had trials at Leeds and Southampton and was rejected before we accepted him. I always thought Grant signed him because (a) he was a Scot and (b) both player and club were desperate.On Hughes I do agree on potential and the worry about injury. I see a bit of Hucks about him sometimes - but maybe with more grit. He has flair but not sure he has the strength of Safri? (Damien Francis - Safri - Clingan - Who now?: Russell? Korey Smith in a year or so?).

[The gut 0]

[quote user="Binky"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

I''m not joking Binky. If you cast your mind back a couple of seasons to when Peter Grant was in charge Brellier was first choice and Fotheringham on the bench. Then in the home game against Southampton Fotheringham was introduced and his performance won us the game. He was unfortunately injured in that game and we only won one of the next sixteen games before he was fit and returned for Roeders first win against Coventry. He then put in a captains performance at Blackpool in our 3-1 win, I was there and forecast that Roeder would make him captain, which he duly did. He was then a huge part of Roeders succesful period but like the rest of the team he didn''t keep it up. But the big thing in Fotheringhams favour for me was that he didn''t hide. He broke up play and protected the back four. But I also have no doubt he thought himself a far better player than he actually was and so probably became unpopular in the dressingroom. One of the biggest mysteries over the last few dreadful seasons was why after recovering from that one win in sixteen and looking like play-off contenders we then reverted back to being relegation contenders so easlily. Roeder tinkered too much but maybe also players such as Fotheringham didn''t have the mental strength to see it through.

As for last season - we were relegated, end of. Clingan was part of that relegation. I don''t care what he''s done for Coventry I thought he was over-rated here. I think he may end up playing centre-back and thet could prove to be a good position for him. I thought he did well there for us and was as good as anyone else who played beside Doc last season. Anyway, he is down the bottom of the Championship with Coventry which is the highest level he has ever played at.

The player I am most interested in at the moment is Stephen Hughes. I think he''s potentially the best midfielder we have had since Safri. He can break up play, tackle, pass the ball and score goals. Seems too good to be true doesn''t it? Maybe there''s a fitness problem.

[/quote]

OK Nutty - I respect your view - but my problem comes when you start to compare Fotheringham with Clingan. I can accept the (implied?) comparison with Brellier and although there is a time in every season when you need a few who do not "hide" - that''s not the same thing as someone who always wants the ball (Clingan) - although I never thought Clingan went AWOL  either; but mostly I want to see some skill and thoughtful football. Didn''t see that from Fotheringham too often but I did from Clingan. If I am wrong, eventually someone here will surely sign Fotheringham up won''t they? Remember he had trials at Leeds and Southampton and was rejected before we accepted him. I always thought Grant signed him because (a) he was a Scot and (b) both player and club were desperate.

On Hughes I do agree on potential and the worry about injury. I see a bit of Hucks about him sometimes - but maybe with more grit. He has flair but not sure he has the strength of Safri? (Damien Francis - Safri - Clingan - Who now?: Russell? Korey Smith in a year or so?).
[/quote]

There really is no comparison. I can uderstand people rating Fotheringham because that was his biggest strength, deceiving people, unfortunately none of them on the pitch. He had the fattest arse in professional football. You don''t get that at his age working hard in the centre of the pitch, you get that by bluffing, and coasting as much as possible. He cheated the club, the fans and his team mates. He had more of an impact on our demise than he is given credit for. Regularly giving the rallying war cry in the press followed by 90 mins of deception running in only his own small circle never bothering to battle back, only a half hearted jog but would continue after a shot or clearance making it appear that he had chased further than he really had.  Clenching his fist and geeing on his team was an insult to other professionals who knew what he was all about and clearly had no respect for him as a player or captain. He consistantly failed to support the forwards, leaving any push to the last possible moment to save his lazy legs but to appear to have made the effort and maybe take an ineffective shot from distance that usually failed to trouble a keeper. Short little bursts of lunges at the ball gave the impression of a midfield hardman but opponents were never fooled. He would show his skill with sharp neat turns that were never performed if another player was within 10 yards. He could pass a ball well but it would rarely be effective and often sqaure or backwards, this is a basic skill and there is a place for it but he never took responsibility to make the creative telling pass. He was completely predictable and it was preserve his completion rate but made him totally ineffective. I made a point of studying his performances long before he got his just desserts and once aware of his cheating it was even easier to appreciate the work ethic and talent of Clingan. He was covering Fotheringham''s man as well as his own and was the one to battle back, even beyond the back four making the telling tackles and at times would end up being the last man. He didn''t stop there, he would do his best to support whoever had the ball always making himself available and trying to create the forward pass. If he failed he battled to win it back unlike his captain who would tend to show frustration to someone else and shift any blame. When Fotheringham was not playing Clingan was even better, he still worked as hard but not to cover a fat lazy cheat. In many ways we were starting many games with only ten men. He did get found out, and that must have a lot do with playing history. Clingan was by far our best and most consistent player last season and would be massive in our current squad, but you can''t deny that having helped Forest to promotion, putting in the work he did for us ( and having a move to Fulham denied) he did not deserve to face another season in division 3. He is a decent, honest genuine footballer with a decent sprinking of skill. Not that it really matters now.

 

[nutty nigel 7,534]

[quote user="Binky"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

I''m not joking Binky. If you cast your mind back a couple of seasons to when Peter Grant was in charge Brellier was first choice and Fotheringham on the bench. Then in the home game against Southampton Fotheringham was introduced and his performance won us the game. He was unfortunately injured in that game and we only won one of the next sixteen games before he was fit and returned for Roeders first win against Coventry. He then put in a captains performance at Blackpool in our 3-1 win, I was there and forecast that Roeder would make him captain, which he duly did. He was then a huge part of Roeders succesful period but like the rest of the team he didn''t keep it up. But the big thing in Fotheringhams favour for me was that he didn''t hide. He broke up play and protected the back four. But I also have no doubt he thought himself a far better player than he actually was and so probably became unpopular in the dressingroom. One of the biggest mysteries over the last few dreadful seasons was why after recovering from that one win in sixteen and looking like play-off contenders we then reverted back to being relegation contenders so easlily. Roeder tinkered too much but maybe also players such as Fotheringham didn''t have the mental strength to see it through.

As for last season - we were relegated, end of. Clingan was part of that relegation. I don''t care what he''s done for Coventry I thought he was over-rated here. I think he may end up playing centre-back and thet could prove to be a good position for him. I thought he did well there for us and was as good as anyone else who played beside Doc last season. Anyway, he is down the bottom of the Championship with Coventry which is the highest level he has ever played at.

The player I am most interested in at the moment is Stephen Hughes. I think he''s potentially the best midfielder we have had since Safri. He can break up play, tackle, pass the ball and score goals. Seems too good to be true doesn''t it? Maybe there''s a fitness problem.

[/quote]

OK Nutty - I respect your view - but my problem comes when you start to compare Fotheringham with Clingan. I can accept the (implied?) comparison with Brellier and although there is a time in every season when you need a few who do not "hide" - that''s not the same thing as someone who always wants the ball (Clingan) - although I never thought Clingan went AWOL  either; but mostly I want to see some skill and thoughtful football. Didn''t see that from Fotheringham too often but I did from Clingan. If I am wrong, eventually someone here will surely sign Fotheringham up won''t they? Remember he had trials at Leeds and Southampton and was rejected before we accepted him. I always thought Grant signed him because (a) he was a Scot and (b) both player and club were desperate.

On Hughes I do agree on potential and the worry about injury. I see a bit of Hucks about him sometimes - but maybe with more grit. He has flair but not sure he has the strength of Safri? (Damien Francis - Safri - Clingan - Who now?: Russell? Korey Smith in a year or so?).
[/quote]

Binky - I don''t even want to think about this anymore. Our midfield last season was abysmal and the includes Fotheringham Russell and Clingan. TBH mate I don''t think it mattered who played because they were all much of a muchness. I just think that when Fotheringham could be bothered he protected the back four better than any of the others. I thought he was more disciplined than Clingan. Those last 6 games, where we lost 5, and that awful last day at Charlton still haunt me and for most of that time our midfield was practically non-existent and yet the criticisms were alll for the defence and the goalkeeper. I guess we all say what we see and it''s not so easy to see someone not doing enough and not wanting the ball.

Anyway, things are much brighter now and I''m slowly forgiving Russell who has been immense since Lambert brought him back. Korey Smith has been an absolute revelation with tireless performances that haven''t look like dropping off which is a hell of an achievement for one so young. But Stephen Hughes, for me looks a really footballer and I am surprised we have him in this league. I do worry about his fitness, he was unfit  when he came here and seems to have been unfit a lot since. He doesn''t look that strong but is surprisingly strong in the tackle and can play at the base of the diamond as well as Rusty for me. I first saw him at yeovil in August when he came on, changed the game, and we scored four goals. He was then inexplicably left out at Exeter and Brentford. Go figure!

 

 

[Gingerpele 0]

The Gut.... you second sentence is completely wrong....

Who actually rated Fozzy? a selected few.....

he was a decent player, he did shy away a bit, in the way he wouldn''t chase unless they came within 5 yards of him, but his passing was very good, and quite often he would be an option, the best example i can remember is his first game back after injury, i think was against Lecister, and whenever a Norwich player got the ball, within 2 seconds Fozzy was there as an option......that didn''t always happen, but i think with more games, and in a more stable team, with a decent manager, he would have been a much better player....

[Iwan_09 0]

Wow. I''ve just logged back on after my original post and it seems I have been well and truly been ripped to shreds!! I must admit i''m pretty baffled and it sounds like he has played out of his skin in ever other game I haven''t seen this season (and yes that is quite a few). I stand by my point though and I think Daryl Russells are 10 a penny and we need to get someone stronger in there when we go up. He is a clumsy footballer who gives the ball away far too much.

I eagerly await another pasting...

[Legend Iwan 30]

Who then, 09, do you think we could realistcally afford to get in who would be better instead of him?

[The gut 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]The Gut.... you second sentence is completely wrong.... Who actually rated Fozzy? a selected few..... he was a decent player, he did shy away a bit, in the way he wouldn''t chase unless they came within 5 yards of him, but his passing was very good, and quite often he would be an option, the best example i can remember is his first game back after injury, i think was against Lecister, and whenever a Norwich player got the ball, within 2 seconds Fozzy was there as an option......that didn''t always happen, but i think with more games, and in a more stable team, with a decent manager, he would have been a much better player....[/quote]

Sorry Gingerpele, don''t want to be argumentative but i can understand why people would be deceived by him, he made the right actions and noises. I don''t know many who rated him but Roeder did and he has been compared favourably on here to Clingan. The rest of your post doesn''t actually put up much of an argument in his defence. Apart from being available and that is because he was always hanging back in a non dangerous position, somewhere in waddling distance from his little circle of personal safety.

[Binky 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Binky"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

I''m not joking Binky.. the big thing in Fotheringhams favour for me was that he didn''t hide. He broke up play and protected the back four. But I also have no doubt he thought himself a far better player than he actually was and so probably became unpopular in the dressingroom.

As for last season - we were relegated, end of. Clingan was part of that relegation. I don''t care what he''s done for Coventry I thought he was over-rated here. Anyway, he is down the bottom of the Championship with Coventry which is the highest level he has ever played at.

[/quote]OK Nutty - I respect your view - but my problem comes when you start to compare Fotheringham with Clingan.[/quote]

Binky - I don''t even want to think about this anymore. Our midfield last season was abysmal and the includes Fotheringham Russell and Clingan. TBH mate I don''t think it mattered who played because they were all much of a muchness. I just think that when Fotheringham could be bothered he protected the back four better than any of the others. I thought he was more disciplined than Clingan.

 [/quote]

As if often said Nutty, we all see a different game. For me, Fotheringham was at best a decent squad player and at worst, a waste of space. (I am in agreement with much of Gut''s recent tirade). I first started watching Norwich in the 1960s when Laurie brown was captain. I honestly cannot think of a worse captain than Fotheringham in the past 40 years, or a worse player who was captain. Even the great Duncan Forbes, who was only ever an okay but effective sort of player, was a superb captain. I don''t think Rusty is a great footballer but he might one day make a good captain - he can play, he doesn''t hide, he''s brave, he wants the ball and,- we are both agreed, - has been a pillar of strength this season.

[nutty nigel 7,534]

Indeed we all see a different game Binky. But that''s football as they say. I would suggest we are seeing the same game this season because we are in agreement about Russell and as I said I have just about forgiven him for last season. But last season we certainly saw a different game because I watched us lose five of the last six games and get relegated with hardly a wimper at Charlton. In those games I saw our midfield hide and continually put pressure on the back four and goalkeeper. Much of the anger at The Valley was directed at the wrong players in my book. As I said earlier, I am no great fan of Fotheringham but I didn''t think we were any worse last season when he played and defensively I believe we were better.

Keelan Stringer Mullett Lucas Brown Allcock Kenning Bryceland Sheffield Curran Anderson [:O]

We started going at the same time my friend[Y]

 

[Binky 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Indeed we all see a different game Binky.

Keelan Stringer Mullett Lucas Brown Allcock Kenning Bryceland Sheffield Curran Anderson [:O]

We started going at the same time my friend[Y]

 [/quote]

Indeed - though I think I must concede seniority (in attendance at least). Don''t think I ever saw Mullett or Allcock play - Alan Black the other FB if my memory serves correctly - with John Manning up with Curran.

[Iwan_09 0]

[quote user="Legend Iwan"]Who then, 09, do you think we could realistcally afford to get in who would be better instead of him?[/quote]

We struggle to produce quality defensive midfielders in England so I would like to see our scouts earn their corn and pluck a tough tackling Eastern European from abroad.