Sorry folks - I'm disappointed

[thebigfeller 200]

[quote user="gazzathegreat"]Shaun, you write so well and echo my own opinion usually, but on this one we have to differ. Lambert (and I have to admit, I know virtually nothing about him) has had experience in this league and the one below. The fact he did so well at Wycombe (on less money than us) is the sealing fact for me. I hope with our more than obvious advantages over them such as supporter base, facilities and our academy etc, he can move things on.

I like the fact he''s not an old boy (though his coaching staff maybe). I like the fact he wasn''t "asked" to do the job by Delia. Your list of reactions to the appointments of former managers are pretty insightful and perhaps we are all somehow trying to capture those feel good feelings as in Martin O''Neill''s appointment. Up to that point he''d only managed Wycombe himself. Maybe, just maybe eh? What about your reactions to all of those leaving? Probably worth a thread on its own!

I would have put Robins as my first choice (just for his work at Rotherham). But I am not disappointed, in fact with Lambert I feel a very strange optimism coming on. Women''s intuition or just a good feeling that as far as it can be from a typical Delia appointment. It''s perhaps now the start of our season and it will be very interesting to see who he wants to retain from the squad and if he can achieve not only the much needed promotion but promotion in style.[/quote]I hope so, gazza: as I said, I''m not anti him. But if we accept that this season is shit or bust, as many seem to believe, then you can maybe understand my scepticism. We have to go up - and Lambert has yet to achieve promotion with anyone!I''m coming round to this slowly; but because of Hearts, have a pretty significant interest in the Scottish game, and most Hearts fans I''ve spoken to have raised their eyebrows. "Not another Scot at Norwich!" Also, I''m lost as to how he did "so well" at Wycombe: did he take them up? Nope. And League 2 play-offs is merely par for the course there. Thus far, I think his overall record has been par or slightly better: albeit it''s improving, which is the most encouraging thing.We''ll see. I''m hopeful, but have my doubts too.

[The Chirp 0]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="TheGoogler"]

Frankly, up and coming managers like - for example - Darren Ferguson are never going to come here with the club in the state it is and proven managers like Steve Coppell are looking for those elusive Premiership jobs. I think Lambert is right up there with the best we could get. Gone are the times where this club was among the elite and I think any manager has to be given a chance to prove himself.

One thing I will say, our reaction to Lambert smacks very similarly to the reaction Burnley fans had to Owen Coyle. Open minded, but sceptical. I think Lambert has proven that he knows the lower leagues of this country very well, and I like a manager who has worked his way up, if you like. And at the end of the day, if he gets us playing simple, efficient football again, I''ll be more than happy.

[/quote]

I agree that if we were looking for anybody more proven than Lambert with our current standing then we would of been living a pipe dream.

The chances of us getting Ferguson would of been remote to say the least and we had absolutely no chance of getting Coppell.

[/quote]So Smudger, as one of the posters on here who more often than not slams any move made by the norwich board... what is your opinion on Lambert? 

[thebigfeller 200]

[quote user="Smudger"]

and Boothroyd, Robins and Taylor have achieve what exactly???  [:^)]

With the exception of Taylor @ Hull City (two promotions - runners up in Div 2 and Div 1) the answer is nothing.  Ask Leicester fans what they think of Peter Taylor... had more money to spend than any other manager there and got them relegated (or alternatively ask Palace fans what they think of him).

Boothroyd = one promotion, followed by a relegation and slipping in to mid-table obscurity with Watford.

Robins has achieved nothing as yet, but similar to Lambert has a good win ratio (all be it at a lower level than Lambert has been working with at Colchester for the last year).

[/quote]Robins: totally incredible what he''s done at Rotherham given the backdrop. I have a gut feeling he''s going to be a very special manager. Boothroyd: miraculous promotion with Watford. How on earth was he supposed to keep them up? Went wrong in the final few months for various reasons.Taylor: League 1 promotion with Gillingham. League 1 title with Brighton. Back-to-back promotions with Hull, and kept them up in the Championship when they had no money. League 2 promotion with Wycombe. Failed at Leicester and Palace; but that''s four successes, two failures, and five fucking promotions! Could you explain to me why you''re happy with Lambert, who didn''t take Wycombe up; and are pooh-poohing Taylor, who did take them up?

[JF 694]

[quote user="Malcolm Mawkin"]

I am very happy with this appointment. Martin O,Neill rates him highly and thinks he will go all the way to the top in management.

He isnt gonna turn us into League champions overnight but i am confident once he brings a few of his players in and give him a little time he will turn us into a good attacking footballing side.

The problem is nearly everyone was expecting a big name we have all heard of but we have to remember we are 3rd division team and some managers who have been around for a long time refuse to drop down to that level.

Paul Lambert is an upcoming young manager who is very ambitious and hungry for success. Managers all have to start somewhere and im confident he will get us fighting at the top end of the table by the end of the season. There is still 44 games left in the league so a long way to go yet.

Anyway welcome to Norwich City Mr Lambert. Im backing you all the way to turn this club around and get us winning matches again.

[/quote] Agreed and well done to Mcnally for going for the man he wanted and not going down the applicants out of work can''t get a job elsewhere route.

[ref89 0]

Come on Bigfeller, you know as well as any of us that Taylor would not have come here, and/or we could not have afforded him.  Same with Robbins, who although doing well so far would have been a huge financial gamble as he had three years to run on his contract.  And Boothroyd, for some reason has not worked for 9 months despite a dozen posts becoming vacant - hardly hungry by the looks of it.With the unrealistic names of Coppell, Strachan and Curbishley thrown in as well,  and our lack of money, I think our options on getting someone were hugely limited.Time to stop griping, we have a manager, and now its time to support him and Culverhouse and see what they can do between now and the new year don''t you think?

[City 2nd 191]

Good post, with which I fully agree.......welcome Mr LAMBERT.....I look forward to some stability and sucess from a winner.

[Mook 0]

My main worry is that he seems ambitious, and i don''t necessarily mean that in a good way. From what I can tell, he''s walked away from a couple of jobs already, and he''s only young.Nobody liked the thought that Roeder was using NCFC as a stepping-stone, and I don''t want us to (for example) lose in the playoffs and Lambert walks out in favour of a "bigger" job at a "bigger" club. Mind you, Steve Bruce was (and still is) an absolute arse in that respect, and I wouldn''t mind him as our manager. So, hey ho. I''m still reeling from the Gunn sacking I think, I can''t make up my mind.

[thebigfeller 200]

[quote user="ref89"]Come on Bigfeller, you know as well as any of us that Taylor would not have come here, and/or we could not have afforded him.  Same with Robbins, who although doing well so far would have been a huge financial gamble as he had three years to run on his contract.  And Boothroyd, for some reason has not worked for 9 months despite a dozen posts becoming vacant - hardly hungry by the looks of it.With the unrealistic names of Coppell, Strachan and Curbishley thrown in as well,  and our lack of money, I think our options on getting someone were hugely limited.Time to stop griping, we have a manager, and now its time to support him and Culverhouse and see what they can do between now and the new year don''t you think?[/quote]I''m fully behind Lambert, and wish him the very best of luck. But this is a football messageboard, on which we naturally debate all things about the club. It''s hardly going to make any difference to whether the fans get behind the manager and the team at games: we all will!If we poached Lambert from Colchester, of course we could''ve poached Taylor from Wycombe or Robins from Rotherham, and I think both would''ve been interested too. I''m with you on Boothroyd though: definitely something odd there. Also, if a managerial appointment doesn''t work out and people gripe about it or at the board, posters naturally respond with "I didn''t hear a word of criticism from you when he was appointed". Sorry, but you can''t have it both ways: I have my doubts, so expressed them. I''m hopeful but doubtful, as I''ve said.

[thebigfeller 200]

[quote user="Mook"]My main worry is that he seems ambitious, and i don''t necessarily mean that in a good way. From what I can tell, he''s walked away from a couple of jobs already, and he''s only young.Nobody liked the thought that Roeder was using NCFC as a stepping-stone, and I don''t want us to (for example) lose in the playoffs and Lambert walks out in favour of a "bigger" job at a "bigger" club. Mind you, Steve Bruce was (and still is) an absolute arse in that respect, and I wouldn''t mind him as our manager. So, hey ho. I''m still reeling from the Gunn sacking I think, I can''t make up my mind.[/quote]Not worried about that TBH. I can''t see him leaving for a bigger club unless he establishes us in the Championship first: we can be as good for him as he hopefully can be for us. Plus, bearing in mind Norwich City isn''t the pinnacle of the footballing universe (much as we''d all like it to be), I''d be worried if he wasn''t ambitious.

[USAcanary 0]

[quote user="thebigfeller"]It''s certainly a darn sight better than Gunn - but when I look at Lambert''s record, all I see is a gradually improving manager: hardly a proven one. Awful at Livingston, albeit in very difficult circumstances which weren''t his fault. OK at Wycombe - League 2 play-offs is merely OK for them, though the Carling Cup run was certainly impressive. And OK at Colchester too: in their first season back down, how can 12th place be anything more than OK?

Great that we''ve finally dispensed with the Mr Nice Guy nonsense and finally gone after our top target, regardless of what his club thought - but what bemuses me is that he was our top target in the first place. Sorry, but his experience as a player makes little or no difference to his prospects as a manager: otherwise, Peter Grant would''ve been a big success. And the feeling his appointment was sealed by one game is awfully uncomfortable too: didn''t that happen in Gunn''s case as well?

My hope is that he can galvanise us and get us into the top six come May - but this could very much go either way. I''m not anti his appointment as such: it''s more that there''s just a big question mark in my head, and I was hoping for more really.
[/quote]

Here is another way of looking at it......

Any manager who is highly successful at this level or Champs level is almost certainly going to get a shot at a bigger job such as lower prem or top champs club.

If we use Martin O''Neil as an example, you have to take a chance on managers who have shown just enough that they have the potential to be a great manager.......

A truely proven great manager isn''t coming here as he would already be working at one of the bigger jobs...........

Our only chance of getting a great manager is taking a chance on a "potentially" great manager.  

Again time will tell.........

I like the fact our criteria for picking the manager this time is not sentiment (club fav) or experience/name (sacked many times) but is based puerly on ability and potential ability going forward.

 

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="thebigfeller"]

Could you explain to me why you''re happy with Lambert, who didn''t take Wycombe up; and are pooh-poohing Taylor, who did take them up?
[/quote]

Taylor simply finished what Lambert started imo.  He laid the foundations and then moved on.

 

[thebigfeller 200]

[quote user="canary cherub "]

Taylor simply finished what Lambert started imo.  He laid the foundations and then moved on.

 

[/quote]I would agree - if a) Taylor hadn''t already done it at League 1 level over and over again; and b) Lambert hadn''t inherited a side which had finished 6th the previous season! That''s what I mean about League 2 play-offs being par for the course at Wycombe: they''re generally up at the top of League 2, but not good enough for League 1.

[thebigfeller 200]

[quote user="USAcanary"]

Here is another way of looking at it......

Any manager who is highly successful at this level or Champs level is almost certainly going to get a shot at a bigger job such as lower prem or top champs club.

If we use Martin O''Neil as an example, you have to take a chance on managers who have shown just enough that they have the potential to be a great manager.......

A truely proven great manager isn''t coming here as he would already be working at one of the bigger jobs...........

Our only chance of getting a great manager is taking a chance on a "potentially" great manager.  

Again time will tell.........

I like the fact our criteria for picking the manager this time is not sentiment (club fav) or experience/name (sacked many times) but is based puerly on ability and potential ability going forward.

 

[/quote]All true, and all fair enough, your last sentence especially. Though there''s also an argument that Lambert got the job largely because he knows McNally so well. But that sort of thing is what makes the world go round anyway, and is light years ahead of the Gunn or Grant nonsense.

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="thebigfeller"][quote user="canary cherub "]

Taylor simply finished what Lambert started imo.  He laid the foundations and then moved on.

 

[/quote]

I would agree - if a) Taylor hadn''t already done it at League 1 level over and over again; and b) Lambert hadn''t inherited a side which had finished 6th the previous season! That''s what I mean about League 2 play-offs being par for the course at Wycombe: they''re generally up at the top of League 2, but not good enough for League 1.
[/quote]

Yes, and he took that side to the semifinal of the League Cup! (lost to Chelsea)

They paid the price in terms of league form, but the following season he rebuilt the side and got them to the playoff semis again. 

Taylor is proven at this level as you say, but I see him as the past and Lambert as the future.

 

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="thebigfeller"][quote user="Smudger"]

and Boothroyd, Robins and Taylor have achieve what exactly???  [:^)]

With the exception of Taylor @ Hull City (two promotions - runners up in Div 2 and Div 1) the answer is nothing.  Ask Leicester fans what they think of Peter Taylor... had more money to spend than any other manager there and got them relegated (or alternatively ask Palace fans what they think of him).

Boothroyd = one promotion, followed by a relegation and slipping in to mid-table obscurity with Watford.

Robins has achieved nothing as yet, but similar to Lambert has a good win ratio (all be it at a lower level than Lambert has been working with at Colchester for the last year).

[/quote]

Robins: totally incredible what he''s done at Rotherham given the backdrop. I have a gut feeling he''s going to be a very special manager.

Boothroyd: miraculous promotion with Watford. How on earth was he supposed to keep them up? Went wrong in the final few months for various reasons.

Taylor: League 1 promotion with Gillingham. League 1 title with Brighton. Back-to-back promotions with Hull, and kept them up in the Championship when they had no money. League 2 promotion with Wycombe. Failed at Leicester and Palace; but that''s four successes, two failures, and five fucking promotions!

Could you explain to me why you''re happy with Lambert, who didn''t take Wycombe up; and are pooh-poohing Taylor, who did take them up?
[/quote]

Taylor spent £23 million at Leicester and got them relegated.

That is more money than every single manager we have had under Delia''s reign put together.

Taylor would poersonally be my last choice out of the 3 managers that you mention (doesn''t mean that I am right though).

[thebigfeller 200]

[quote user="Smudger"]

Taylor spent £23 million at Leicester and got them relegated.

That is more money than every single manager we have had under Delia''s reign put together.

Taylor would poersonally be my last choice out of the 3 managers that you mention (doesn''t mean that I am right though).

[/quote]Taylor''s proven himself pretty spectacularly at this level. Yep, he failed at Leicester - but then, Leicester post-O''Neill was always going to be a tough, tough job. Ditto Charlton post-Curbishley. I don''t see what him failing at the very highest level has to do with a club in League 1, especially when set against all his success in Leagues 1 and 2. And we can all play that "ask fans of x what they think" game: why don''t you ask Livingston fans what they think of Lambert?But we are where we are. I wish Lambert all the best, as I said on Canary Call earlier; and remain strangely hopeful. It''s just that tonight''s utter shambles will have shown Lambert in no uncertain terms just what''s facing him here. Good luck to him: he''ll need it.