hahaha all the usual suspects...

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="Shack Attack"]

Our MPs are doing a fantastic job of living up to your description of them today Arthur. Although I would have thought you should have learned your lesson about using such naughty words the other night. You''ll have the puritans on to you [;)]

First they decide that they should each be able to claim up to £9,125 a year for ''subsistence payments'' without so much as a single receipt [:@]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5920660/MPs-ignore-public-anger-and-give-themselves-9000-expenses-deal-by-stealth.html

Then they take two members of the armed forces to court in a pathetic attempt to cut their compensation payments following serious injury. Classy [:|]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jul/28/mod-appeal-injured-soldiers-compensation

But never fear folks for we''re about to be saved from these corrupt tossers. That''s right, our saviour is riding into Luton to give our greedy politicians a bloody nose (presumably with a carrot amusingly shaped like a cock and balls [:D]).

[8] What''s that coming over the hill, it''s..............erm Esther Rantzen [8]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jul/28/esther-rantzen-stands-for-parliament

We''re doomed. Doomed I tells ya [:''(][:''(][:''(]

[/quote]

Fully agree Shack.

She only became famous by shafting her boss the canadian guy (help the memory has gone). and taking over HIS show.

She should fit well in.

[macdougalls perm 0]

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

I didn''t make a long list McDougalls perm as i dint want to stretch your memory cell. Lol!

[/quote]

Ha ha - touche [:D]

[BIC 0]

[quote]

I thought all the main parties were in agreement that the UK should join the European snake thingy!

How do you know it was £3.5bn? Did you count it all?

[/quote]Luckily I didn''t have to count it, other people disgusted with the

ineptitude of these idiots had already done it. All I had to do was

some simple research.

Perhaps even you could too - Just google ''Nigel Lawson incompetent tory

government''. Really very easy.Oh and of course £3.5bn was what was

lost ONLY on Black Wednesday. The total cost of the utter incompetence

of the cretins that were somehow in charge of our money was actually

£27bn of our currency reserves, plus all of the other related losses

due to the loss in the pound''s value of course.Allow for inflation

etc and calculate how much the £30bn (very conservative estimate of the

total) would be worth now then tell me about how good the Tory

government was for Britain again.

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="BIC"]

[quote]

I thought all the main parties were in agreement that the UK should join the European snake thingy!

How do you know it was £3.5bn? Did you count it all?

[/quote]

Luckily I didn''t have to count it, other people disgusted with the ineptitude of these idiots had already done it. All I had to do was some simple research. Perhaps even you could too - Just google ''Nigel Lawson incompetent tory government''. Really very easy.

Oh and of course £3.5bn was what was lost ONLY on Black Wednesday. The total cost of the utter incompetence of the cretins that were somehow in charge of our money was actually £27bn of our currency reserves, plus all of the other related losses due to the loss in the pound''s value of course.

Allow for inflation etc and calculate how much the £30bn (very conservative estimate of the total) would be worth now then tell me about how good the Tory government was for Britain again.
[/quote]

This lot have just sunk 1.3 trillion yes trillion into supporting those twisted,self seeking,fat cat bankers.

Now that''s what I call using my money wisely.

Tried as a small business getting some of it back?

They didn''t even ask them for cash flow forecasts, guarantees on homes or business plans!

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="BIC"]

[quote]

I thought all the main parties were in agreement that the UK should join the European snake thingy!

How do you know it was £3.5bn? Did you count it all?

[/quote]

Luckily I didn''t have to count it, other people disgusted with the ineptitude of these idiots had already done it. All I had to do was some simple research. Perhaps even you could too - Just google ''Nigel Lawson incompetent tory government''. Really very easy.

[/quote]

But as i mentioned previously the other main parties were keener to join the European snake.

BTW. Didn''t Brown make a good job of selling the state''s (our) gold reserves at a low price! 

[shortfatb 0]

[quote user="Bob Stroud"][quote user="shortfatb"]St. Cluck wrote:

And this from someone who has never had a job .... has no clue of life outside of the protected education bubble ... and who has been blagging off the tax payer for years in the hope of claiming a highly paid job one day off our backs?

That sounds exactly like William Hague to me! [/quote]

You don''t know what you''re talking about really, do you ? 

 

[/quote]Sorry, I wasn''t being wholly literal Boob, I was merely alluding to Hague''s education at a public school being followed by a career in politics and rather enjoyed the irony of Cluck''s diatribe. I feel that I''ve let you down, I''m deeply, deeply saddened.  

[Snoots 0]

[quote user="shortfatb"][quote user="Bob Stroud"][quote user="shortfatb"]St. Cluck wrote:

And this from someone who has never had a job .... has no clue of life outside of the protected education bubble ... and who has been blagging off the tax payer for years in the hope of claiming a highly paid job one day off our backs?

That sounds exactly like William Hague to me! [/quote]

You don''t know what you''re talking about really, do you ? 

 

[/quote]

Sorry, I wasn''t being wholly literal Boob, I was merely alluding to Hague''s education at a public school being followed by a career in politics and rather enjoyed the irony of Cluck''s diatribe. I feel that I''ve let you down, I''m deeply, deeply saddened.  
[/quote]

What public school was that then ? It''s not a question of being wholly literal though is it, it''s a question of being factually accurate. But, hey, why allow accuracy get in the way of prejudice ?

 

[BIC 0]

Butler, I know the Labour government has been shamefully incompetent, but that is beside the point. We were talking about Tory incompetence 20-odd years ago. How is Labour''s recent incompetence even remotely relevant to that?When I point out that the tories made huge errors, everyone seems to want to defend these errors by saying, but these OTHER other people made even worse errors! Not exactly a very conclusive defence is it. They cocked up very badly at what was a crucial time in our economic history. Whatever Labour or anyone else has done since is totally and utterly irrelevant to this discussion.If you want to bring it up so we can slag them off too that''s fine, I enjoy slagging off any kind of governmental ineptitude regardless of the party. But let''s not do it while we talk about the merits of the Tory partywhile in power.

[. 0]

[quote user="BIC"]Butler, I know the Labour government has been shamefully incompetent, but that is beside the point. We were talking about Tory incompetence 20-odd years ago. How is Labour''s recent incompetence even remotely relevant to that?

When I point out that the tories made huge errors, everyone seems to want to defend these errors by saying, but these OTHER other people made even worse errors!
Not exactly a very conclusive defence is it. They cocked up very badly at what was a crucial time in our economic history. Whatever Labour or anyone else has done since is totally and utterly irrelevant to this discussion.
If you want to bring it up so we can slag them off too that''s fine, I enjoy slagging off any kind of governmental ineptitude regardless of the party. But let''s not do it while we talk about the merits of the Tory partywhile in power.
[/quote]

Isn''t it odd that the pre-Smith good times we had at Carrow Road 20 years ago are simply history .... yet what happened politically 20 years ago is still apparently highly relevant ......

Blatant cherry picking I suspect to suit this particular argument.

 

[BIC 0]

[quote]

But as i mentioned previously the other main parties were keener to join the European snake.

BTW. Didn''t Brown make a good job of selling the state''s (our) gold reserves at a low price! 

[/quote]We''re talking about Tory govt incompetence here, why bring up anything else? I know about Labour''s cockups but that is BESIDE THE POINT IN THIS DISCUSSION.First you debate my figures, then when I show you how I found those figures you mention Gordon Brown? How is that a defence of your beloved tories? Does the fact that Brown has cocked up make it ok to throw away public monies? Presumably if a builder destroys half of your home while building a pool, that''s ok if you hire another builder and he destroys even more.Sorry to keep using all these analogies but you seem incapable of seeing the very simple point I''m trying to make. Strangely similar to the people you''re so ineptly trying to defend by pointing in the other direction

[BIC 0]

[quote user="St. Cluck"]

Isn''t it odd that the pre-Smith good times we had at Carrow Road 20 years ago are simply history .... yet what happened politically 20 years ago is still apparently highly relevant ......

Blatant cherry picking I suspect to suit this particular argument.

 [/quote]

Of course it''s relevant. I used to own part of BT and other public companies, but now I don''t because they were sold to private parties. I still don''t own them and until I do then it will continue to be very relevant.

Stick to slagging off anyone who doesn''t think the way you do about NCFC, because your blind defence of the indefensible has no merit here

[. 0]

[quote user="BIC"][quote user="St. Cluck"]

Isn''t it odd that the pre-Smith good times we had at Carrow Road 20 years ago are simply history .... yet what happened politically 20 years ago is still apparently highly relevant ......

Blatant cherry picking I suspect to suit this particular argument.

 [/quote]

Of course it''s relevant. I used to own part of BT and other public companies, but now I don''t because they were sold to private parties. I still don''t own them and until I do then it will continue to be very relevant.

Stick to slagging off anyone who doesn''t think the way you do about NCFC, because your blind defence of the indefensible has no merit here

[/quote]

If you''d bought the shares made available to everyone you could have still "owned" part of it.... along with the gas, electricity, water etc etc.......

It''s hardly the Tories'' fault that you''d rather spend your money on fags and booze is it? The opportunity was there for all of us.... and I made quite a few quid thanks to Margaret.

A poor argument on your part I''m afraid.........

 

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

[quote user="BIC"]There you go, TFA using the same debating tactics as the foolish Tories who pushed through the privatisations.
So the industries you mention were underfunded and services were poor. Indeed they were. We shoudl blame the people who cut funding and/or ensured that insufficient funding would be made available, thus forcing those businesses to be sold to private interests. Hmm let me see. Just who was in power in the years prior to ALL of those privatisations. Well, what a coincidence, it was the Tories.

[/quote]

Lets forget the time when Labour was in power prior to Thatcher and when it was easy for central government to push off capital expenditure re nationalised industries and the Water Boards. Lets forget that the nationalised industries were loss making and not helped due to the over manning.

I certainly think the railways have improved since privatisation....no more cross country bone shakers.

 

 

 

[/quote]

You have obviously never been on a 30 hour trip from Norwich to Manchester on our wonderful rail network over the last 10 years then?

[Smudger 0]

PS... Just how did this get around to turning in to a debate about football to QUESTION TIME?

Anybody who still believes in politics in the UK seriously needs to get out more.

Can people not see a pattern here???

Back the majority shareholders of your football club continually while you sit and watch them destroy it, or back those (both Torys and Labour) who have shafted this country to such an extent over the years that it is now unlikely to ever recover unless some very radical new measures are brought in.

It tickles me to think that hundreds of thousands of utter mugs will even bother to waste an hour or so visiting their polling station come election day.

If you keep doing the same things then you get the same results.

Now how about getting back to what this thread was initially about?

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="Smudger"]

Back the majority shareholders of your football club continually while you sit and watch them destroy it, or back those (both Torys and Labour) who have shafted this country to such an extent over the years that it is now unlikely to ever recover unless some very radical new measures are brought in.

[/quote]I''m dying to hear what these ''very radical new measures'' might be. Let''s hear your manifesto Smudge, there are a lot of people who are undecided on who to vote for next time we get the chance. VOTE SMUDGER [;)]

[macdougalls perm 0]

Yeah, I''m very curious about this [:)]

Might get some ''Vote Smudger'' stickers printed up [:)] 

[Downloads 35]

We''re all doooooooomed! We''re getting relegated again i tell ya!!!!!

Crystal Palace 0 - 1 Norwich City

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Shack Attack"][quote user="Smudger"]

Back the majority shareholders of your football club continually while you sit and watch them destroy it, or back those (both Torys and Labour) who have shafted this country to such an extent over the years that it is now unlikely to ever recover unless some very radical new measures are brought in.

[/quote]

I''m dying to hear what these ''very radical new measures'' might be. Let''s hear your manifesto Smudge, there are a lot of people who are undecided on who to vote for next time we get the chance. VOTE SMUDGER [;)]
[/quote]

You don''t like radical though Shack... stick with the Red and the Blue... [;)]

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Downloads"]

We''re all doooooooomed! We''re getting relegated again i tell ya!!!!!

Crystal Palace 0 - 1 Norwich City

[/quote]

Accrington Stanley 2 - 1 Burnley

Expect to see "Who are they" in the Premiership soon!  [;)]

[Downloads 35]

And with us in League 2, obviously.

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Shack Attack"][quote user="Smudger"]

Back the majority shareholders of your football club continually while you sit and watch them destroy it, or back those (both Torys and Labour) who have shafted this country to such an extent over the years that it is now unlikely to ever recover unless some very radical new measures are brought in.

[/quote]I''m dying to hear what these ''very radical new measures'' might be. Let''s hear your manifesto Smudge, there are a lot of people who are undecided on who to vote for next time we get the chance. VOTE SMUDGER [;)][/quote]

You don''t like radical though Shack... stick with the Red and the Blue... [;)]

[/quote]Awwwww come on Smudge you can do better than that. It will be a long time before I consider voting Red again and my old man would disown me if I went Blue. So my vote, and Mac P''s as well by the looks of it,  is up for grabs. Inspire me with your rhetoric [:D][;)]

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

[quote user="BIC"]There you go, TFA using the same debating tactics as the foolish Tories who pushed through the privatisations.
So the industries you mention were underfunded and services were poor. Indeed they were. We shoudl blame the people who cut funding and/or ensured that insufficient funding would be made available, thus forcing those businesses to be sold to private interests. Hmm let me see. Just who was in power in the years prior to ALL of those privatisations. Well, what a coincidence, it was the Tories.

[/quote]

Lets forget the time when Labour was in power prior to Thatcher and when it was easy for central government to push off capital expenditure re nationalised industries and the Water Boards. Lets forget that the nationalised industries were loss making and not helped due to the over manning.

I certainly think the railways have improved since privatisation....no more cross country bone shakers.

 

 

 

[/quote]

You have obviously never been on a 30 hour trip from Norwich to Manchester on our wonderful rail network over the last 10 years then?

[/quote]

I have made the 5 hour journey between Norwich and Manchester a few times each year during the last five years or so. Mind you I learnt to avoid travelling on Fridays and the weekend! 

 

 

[7rew 0]

[quote user="arrrrgggghhhh"]

I have made the 5 hour journey between Norwich and Manchester a few times each year during the last five years or so. Mind you I learnt to avoid travelling on Fridays and the weekend! 

[/quote]Did you discover that you can save up to 45 minutes by changing at Peterborough and Doncaster/Leeds?I did for a while, then I just decided to not bother and take another book.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

The above post by 7rew is a starting point for hopefully a discussion regarding the railways.

Here''s some initial thoughts:

The privitisation of the railways in the 1990s was botched in the sense that Railtrack should have been a public body due to the huge backlog of work needed to bring the infrastructure up to standard as a result of insuffucient financing by various governments of different political colours over the decades.

However I think the Train Operating Companies (TOC.) are more customer orientated than British Rail but they are not perfect. It was a TOC. that bought in the two trains an hour (during the day) service between Norwich and Liverpool St. London. 

While there are plans to increase the number of carriages especially on London  related trains, I have always had the suspicion that fares are used to influence the number of people using the network. While peak hour travel price increases are regulated the off peak are more under the control of the TOC.''s. If a single person is  prepared to book in advance some journeys can be bought at a cost lower than using a car for a similar journey  however with multiple people making the same journey then the car is likely to be cheaper subject to any offers etc from the TOC.  The comparison is also subject to the cost of car parking, not cheap in central London.

Moreover I have also bought an off peak return journey (on the day of travel)  at Victoria to the south coast that was cheaper than using a car even on a variable cost basis.  However I have noticed that the price of that return ticket increased by 35% compared to the same month a year earlier. I suspect that the size of this increase is due to fewer off peak passengers this year due to the economic circumstances so the TOC is trying to extract more revenue from the smaller number of passengers.

More to come but I must go now.

 

 

 

 

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

I thought my post above was going on the Railways thread in the non footy section. Goodness knows what happens to the software related to this site when I  try to copy a post (including username etc)  to a thread. So i will start a second railways thread in the non footy section and use my post above to start it.