Never mind the danger.

[Nonki 0]

As a player and collectively as a club you want to test yourself at the highest level.But as fans there is very little to satiate our desire to win. Failure and success are all relevent and cast a shadow over the true meaning of the game.Last season was a very important season for Norwich and we have learnt a lot from it.People think the club is in retrograde, but life doesn''t work like that.The lesson to be learnt from last season and the current pre-season transfer insecurities is patience.Norwich may or may not get promoted this season, but we have progressed as a club. Every club has it''s time and unless you can financially transcend the current climate of the footballing world, you have to dig in and be ready for your next chance.Going to watch City away at Northampton in the League cup and watching the promotion bus parade around Norwich are two of my most special moments as a Norwich fan, but neither is more, or less memorable than the other.As fans maybe we need to start thinking about what "success" really means.

[Canary02 0]

I think what you say is true, but as fans we obviously want the best, and we want our club to be doing the right thing at the right time in order to best place ourselves for when our next turn at the serious promotion bid comes along.

At a time when we have the best creative player in the division (Huckerby), the best goalkeeper (Green) and the best finisher (Earnshaw) we can all see a fantastic opportunity, with some careful additions, to put ourselves back in the Premiership. With Hucks getting on, and Greeno at least, keen on a move, this year represents a last chance to build on the fact that we have this calibre of player at the club, and opportunities like this should not be wasted. Those of us who endured the dark decade of lower tier nothingness recognise how infrequently we have been able to attract top quality players to the club. It would be better to build from a position of strength than start from scratch again.

Undoubtedly our turn will come again, if , as feared by many, we don''t add to the squad and go through the same middling season again, but this summer has been a huge opportunity to correct mistakes and push forward, and one we have failed to take.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Obviously Mourinho doesn''t understand when he is successful enough: have you seen how many ins and outs there have been at Chelsea so far?

Norwich saw promotion as the journeys end, sat on their hands and have fallen back ever since.

Where are the successful academy and youth teams indicative of playing strength within?

There is no time in football to stands still and self congratulate and there is certainly little room for sentiment.

[Mook 0]

You will get slated for this post, but I heartily agree. Success is entirely relative.

We are now doing worse than we were 15 years ago, but we are a HELL of a lot better off than we were say 7 years ago. It''s peaks and troughs.

I am now jealous of Wigan, but 10 years ago I laughed at Wigan. On the other hand, 10 Years ago the likes of Bradford and Wimbledon were laughing at us - now we look at them and think "thank god".

Yes - stable is dull, and boring. But it''s better than relegation after relegation, and having an unmanagable debt.

Bring on the new season.

[nh_ncfc 0]

Totally agree with you and Mook. Nice to see some people using logic. (No offence to anyone ment.)

Bring on next season.

OTBC.

[0Amarillo<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>ddMMyyyy0Falseen-US<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>True 0]

I think too many people think they can reduce the whole thing down to the likes of Champioship Manager, get a winning strategy and go all the way to the top. This is the real world. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it.

People talk about the ''dark decade'' as if it only happened to us, and our club have somehow got it wrong. There are some examples of clubs that have done better than us, but not many really. Look at Wolves, West Brom, Ipswich, Coventry, Derby, Sheff Utd, Reading, Watford etc. All similar size to us, all spent a decade mostly in the Champ with a brief visit to the Prem. Wigan, Portsmouth, Fulham went up and have stayed, but all have/had wealthy backers.

If you''re realistic for a moment, how many other clubs have done better than us, and how many are in more-or-less the same boat? Do Wolves and Palace fans not think they''re in decline because they didn''t survive in the Prem and are now selling players? Did Ipswich fans not think that a year or two back?

And ''best players'' is very subjective - I''m sure plenty of fans of other clubs believe they have the best players, and to a very large extent it''s about having the best team - how many future premiership stars got Reading promoted?

We can always do better, sure. And we must try, but I will always try to be realistic about what actually can be achieved without vast sums of money. Every dog has its day: look at the Div 1 table from 10 years ago - 96/97. Every team in the league then either went on to be relegated or promoted, including us. Of those that got promoted, 3 are still there, although all came down and went back up again. Wolves, Ipswich, Palace, Birmingham, West Brom were all with us then. How many of them have fared significantly better than us since? Loads of teams went down after that (and some have come back up).

So sure, lets try to improve, get up again, get established there. But don''t suggest the club is rubbish for not achieveing it, because hardly anyone else has either. Put another way, for every team someone might suggest we emulate, I can think of 10 that you''d rather we didn''t emulate, because they''re done no more than we have.

[beelsie 0]

Amarillo, what you say makes sense and to add to it would only detract from what is a thoughtful and well constructed post. 

[ZLF 274]

Its impossible to disagree with what has been said here (for I have no doubt the club has progresses) and undoubtedly the clubs financial status has a huge bearing on how we assess performance. 

15 years ago we were riding the crest of a wave,  7 years ago was a real low as a club with no finances, a limited squad and promotion not a real option;  last year and this it was and should be.    The club is in a far better position that it was 5-7 years ago (isnt it?) but we will only remain so by getting the best out of a core of excellent players

The (I am sure random) choice of comparing the club now to the one 7 years ago is interesting from the team side.   The 98/99 season was one, where by coincidence, city also finished 9th (14 pts of play offs to last seasons 13) and the subsequent season we finished 12th with regulars like sutch, dalglish, Izzy, Forbes, Fugelstad as well as the likes of DeWaard Derveld etc with each season starting with Rioch in charge and Hamilton as Director of Football. The following season (with Hamilton sacked mid season) was a true nadir as we made 15th 

Now that surprised me - which of those squads would I want to start a season with, which one cost the most money (in wages and transfer fees -even adjusted for inflation) and which ones was the greatest acheivement?

And it made me think.

     

[Mook 0]

Lovely stuff, Ama.

I don''t expect anyone to reply to it though, too much sense talked and not reactionary enough!

[patrickhiggins 0]

best analysis i''ve seen for a long time. A refreshing change from ''this is the worst team ever''. We have a decent playing squad and will probably finish about tenth. We have exciting players in Huckerby and Earnshaw and some good Championship defenders....I''m just looking forward to seeing the team again and wish them good luck.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

Hmmmmm

Wolves: Serial underacheivers

West Ham: relegation, 2 play-offs and promotion

Wigan - Steady rise to the premiership from division 2

Reading - Steady rise to the premiership from division 1

Ipswich: 2 years in the premiership + 2 European Seasons + numerous play-off finishes

Palace: 2 promotions and relegations + numerous play-off finishes

Birmingham: 4 premiership season''s + promotions to the championship

West Brom: 3 premiership season''s

not to mention the acheivements of Bolton/Charlton/Sunderland/Middlesborough

IMO we had a chance on promotion to improve our squad.  Now 2 years since promotion we are an unbalanced and leaderless.

[GJD 0]

Best thread for a long time. Realistic statements and some common sense.

Yes we all want to be in the Prem, but so does every other club.

If we don''t show improvement and make the play-offs then I am sure changes will be made, but the season has not started yet, so lets try and look forward to that at least!

At the end of the day its the team we all support, not the league position!

OTBC.

 

[Carrow89 0]

" Ipswich: 2 years in the premiership + 2 European Seasons + numerous play-off finishes "

Play off failures - repeated failures more like.

As to the rest it was bought at a fantastic price. Having ran up debts of around £8m to get into the premiership the club was forced to deal with years and years of neglect in investment. Most of the rest we probably know other than that they stuck their heads into a noose that has tightened by the year.

Our club has been criticised for not pursuing that reckless path. What is probably not known is that the binners had no choice. Having put themselves onto a position where only Premiership income will allow them top meet their commitments there never was going to be any other outcome. Having failed yet again after selling off almost anything they had the future looks pretty bleak. Not just next season but the long term. Compare this with other similar clubs and you will see the same gradual descent.

This is not to gloat at the expense of our pompous neighbours and their well deserved fall from grace but to echo much of the above in other posts. It is not about ''little Norwich''. It is about being a bit more realistic about our position. We have no divine right to be anywhere but we have every opportunity to be in the dire straights of our neighbours.

This thread is a welcome breath of fresh air to the genuine City fans on here. Many who I would venture are heartily sick and tired of logging on to find yet another page full of ridiculous claims against the club and it''s staff.. Maybe it is a bit against the grain on a City board to actually put you hand up and say you trust the board, maybe it also goes against the grain to say that I think by and large the overwhelming majority of those at Carrow Road are working their arz off to get things right.

 But then when it wasn''t so fashionable to be a City fan I along with many on here stuck with the club. And for all it''s faults, disappointments and heartache it''s my club.

So maybe, just maybe it''s time for the real fans to be heard.