There is something fundamentally wrong with this squad

[repman 636]

19 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

That incredibly gutsy decision to part with Hughton, who'd done absolutely nothing wrong there, was a masterstroke. In wistful moments I imagine what might have happened if we'd done the same after his first season here, in which those final two wins elevated us into a slightly misleading mid-table position. Could we have flown from that solid base he'd established? Then I realise that the answer to that is probably no, we didn't have money. I really admire what Brighton and Brentford have done, and think they should be our model, but you have to acknowledge that their most significant figures are Bloom and Benham respectively. Ironic they can't stand each other...

I think Hughton basically fits into the group of old school ish managers who 10 years ago were everywhere but as teams have become smarter they've slowly disappeared from view. After the 18/19 season when Brighton sacked Hughton their xG difference had them 18th, with the worst attack bar Huddersfield who only managed 16 points. On the outside it probably felt like he had done nothing wrong but they were clever enough to realise that this wouldn't last forever. In terms of those underlying numbers they had also got worse from the previous year. 

Brighton and Brentford are both brilliantly run and I agree that we should look to emulate them, as you say though their two significant figures have been able to bankroll them through any mistakes. They're the 2 clubs who have been at it the longest too, which means they stole a march on the rest.

[hogesar 9,776]

30 minutes ago, repman said:

I think Hughton basically fits into the group of old school ish managers who 10 years ago were everywhere but as teams have become smarter they've slowly disappeared from view. After the 18/19 season when Brighton sacked Hughton their xG difference had them 18th, with the worst attack bar Huddersfield who only managed 16 points. On the outside it probably felt like he had done nothing wrong but they were clever enough to realise that this wouldn't last forever. In terms of those underlying numbers they had also got worse from the previous year. 

Brighton and Brentford are both brilliantly run and I agree that we should look to emulate them, as you say though their two significant figures have been able to bankroll them through any mistakes. They're the 2 clubs who have been at it the longest too, which means they stole a march on the rest.

Yes. Brighton have a brilliant owner. Some won't like this, but basically our owners with money. Allows him to take more risks but essentially a lifelong fan who hires football people to do all the football stuff.

[aBee 152]

2 hours ago, repman said:

I think the perfect scenario is what happened with Brighton, pretty dire football under Hughton for a few years to keep themselves in the PL, but they always made signings with an eye on evolving their style and then brought Potter in to make that happen. Even under Potter it wasn't plain sailing but they were getting similar results but with a better style which as you said had a higher ceiling, which they've certainly started reaching over the last year.

It'll be interesting to see if Brentford do similar, I saw a stat that they haven't won a game this season when they have more possession. They've been successful as a backs against the wall side for the last 2 years but teams are probably starting to smarten up to that.

If we get promoted ever again we need to be working from a much more solid base defensively than we have the previous 2 times, Wagner I think can do that but I wonder if we'll produce enough at the other end as a result.

Yes, Brentford’s biggest wins this season have been with a minority of possession. Below 30% against Man C and Liverpool, 33% in the 4-0 against Man U. 31% in the 5-2 against Leeds. We had 67% possession in the 1-0 defeat at Everton though!

The thing we’ve been developing over the season is the ability to play 433 in games where we have more possession rather than the 532 low block/fast counter that’s worked well against several top teams. It’s a work in progress and the first elements of it in recent games have been getting used to quickly snapping back to the low block. I think you’ve got to evolve your play each season and within season to survive as a smaller club and recruit in anticipation of losing stars. Schade is still v raw but just got his first full German call up so post-Toney is already sketched out and 532 without him works less well. 

[ridgeman 135]

I feel that the problem is at the top of the club. Our majority shareholders want to be seen as running a nice friendly family community club. The friendly feeeling filters down through the various levels so nobody is under pressure.

Our  Sporting Director appears to have gone down the route of purchasing players with a view to resale rather than strengthening the team (under Lambert we bought to facilitate the team Tierney for left back, Crofts for midfield, Pilkington for winger Morrison for forward come readily to mind) under Webber you look at the players and think what is our best line up.

As said previously players have regressed AArons loyalty can't be questioned but his final ball certainly can, Gianoulis is a tidy footballer but not a left back, Hanley is a solid defender with limited passing ability, Gibson blows hot and cold, Omobamidele I am still not certain about and then Byram. That is our defence.

Midfield - looking at the players it is hard to construct a solid midfield with Gibbs, Sorensen, Sara, McLean, Nunez.

Forwards  - Sargents ball control is laughable for a professional football although he can run all day, Idah must show something in training that we don't see on the pitch, Pukki a quality player, Hernandez, Placheta, Tzolis, Rashica well.

Playing system since Farke left we don't seem to have one.

Head Coach has worked with Webber before and probably why he was selected this time and must be given time.

I think all of these players with the exception of Aarons were signed by Webber and he must be held accountable but with no pressure from above and his arrogance he will continue as he wants.

[aBee 152]

18 hours ago, ridgeman said:

I feel that the problem is at the top of the club. Our majority shareholders want to be seen as running a nice friendly family community club. The friendly feeeling filters down through the various levels so nobody is under pressure.

Our  Sporting Director appears to have gone down the route of purchasing players with a view to resale rather than strengthening the team (under Lambert we bought to facilitate the team Tierney for left back, Crofts for midfield, Pilkington for winger Morrison for forward come readily to mind) under Webber you look at the players and think what is our best line up.

As said previously players have regressed AArons loyalty can't be questioned but his final ball certainly can, Gianoulis is a tidy footballer but not a left back, Hanley is a solid defender with limited passing ability, Gibson blows hot and cold, Omobamidele I am still not certain about and then Byram. That is our defence.

Midfield - looking at the players it is hard to construct a solid midfield with Gibbs, Sorensen, Sara, McLean, Nunez.

Forwards  - Sargents ball control is laughable for a professional football although he can run all day, Idah must show something in training that we don't see on the pitch, Pukki a quality player, Hernandez, Placheta, Tzolis, Rashica well.

Playing system since Farke left we don't seem to have one.

Head Coach has worked with Webber before and probably why he was selected this time and must be given time.

I think all of these players with the exception of Aarons were signed by Webber and he must be held accountable but with no pressure from above and his arrogance he will continue as he wants.

It ought to be obvious you can’t buy to resell at a profit unless the players will work in what the team needs and develop to their best in the actual team. The better the team does, the greater the value. Otherwise at best they look like good players who don’t fit and are thus available still at a discount because more of their potential is unrealised (which is why we ended up selling Forss for <£3m). At worst you have players depreciating because they’ve looked bad in a poorly performing team. And that’s assuming the players are themselves fundamentally good ones. Buy duds and that’s money wasted. 

[hogesar 9,776]

19 hours ago, ridgeman said:

I feel that the problem is at the top of the club. Our majority shareholders want to be seen as running a nice friendly family community club. The friendly feeeling filters down through the various levels so nobody is under pressure.

Our  Sporting Director appears to have gone down the route of purchasing players with a view to resale rather than strengthening the team (under Lambert we bought to facilitate the team Tierney for left back, Crofts for midfield, Pilkington for winger Morrison for forward come readily to mind) under Webber you look at the players and think what is our best line up.

As said previously players have regressed AArons loyalty can't be questioned but his final ball certainly can, Gianoulis is a tidy footballer but not a left back, Hanley is a solid defender with limited passing ability, Gibson blows hot and cold, Omobamidele I am still not certain about and then Byram. That is our defence.

Midfield - looking at the players it is hard to construct a solid midfield with Gibbs, Sorensen, Sara, McLean, Nunez.

Forwards  - Sargents ball control is laughable for a professional football although he can run all day, Idah must show something in training that we don't see on the pitch, Pukki a quality player, Hernandez, Placheta, Tzolis, Rashica well.

Playing system since Farke left we don't seem to have one.

Head Coach has worked with Webber before and probably why he was selected this time and must be given time.

I think all of these players with the exception of Aarons were signed by Webber and he must be held accountable but with no pressure from above and his arrogance he will continue as he wants.

I think tactically our system has been pretty obvious for most of our games under Wagner. Much more identifiable than under Smith.